RE: Romance and D/s (Full Version)

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LadyConstanze -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/18/2010 6:05:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I really do not mix romance and D/s. I tried that once and the disaster was epic. I am not averse to doing it again, but I am certainly not seeking it out.

I need to get to know how people think and feel, how they react, and that has to happen in real time. I can be FRIENDS with folks online, I can form emotional bonds, but D/s in the virtual world is a no.

I do not sissify. I appreciate the transgendered, but do not want anything but friendship.


I found that mixing D/s and romance is far more complicated and full of drama than mixing SM and romance, so I am in a relationship where I can b a sadist sometimes but there is also romance, we both have certain freedom to move around, we also have limitations how far we go outside of the relationship, it works for us, other people might find another modus vivendi

I realized I can't be everything for another person without losing myself and another person can't be everything for me without losing him or herself, so best compartmentalize and be what you can be for different people while still being yourself, not sure if that is poly as I have one sexual partner... Heck, I better not think about it, it gets really complicated when I try to make sense of it, however when I just live by our rules it all works out so effortlessly and is great fun...



SthrnCom4t -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/18/2010 9:53:33 PM)

Absolutely you can have both. As with most aspects of life, there is a sliding gray scale. I believe where you have mystery and a limited area of connection, there can be great excitement and also great anxiety. Where you have connection on many levels across many experiences, you can have deep, enduring, love. All scenarios have their place and time.

I enjoy humiliation, but I don't do degradation. I separate the two, by saying that humiliation is something that takes Otter outside his mental/emotional comfort zone. (Like preparing Caesar salad table side in bra and panties for a dinner party of 8). Degradation for me would be belittling and disrespecting, which honestly, makes me feel bad, so it's a limit.

Two months after Otter and I met, I learned my father had stage IV colon cancer. The next 8 months were emotionally challenging. I learned I could lie with my head on his chest and sob. I learned 'my submissive' was a rock of emotional stability when I needed him to be. Those were very defining moments.

I have a Sadistic streak. I enjoy Otter 'suffering for me'. I love when we travel to 'the edge', and he looks more like Alice Cooper with tear-streaked mascara, than a girlie boy who took 2 hours to look perfectly 'put together'. I know on some level he 'needs' the emotional cleansing excessive sensation demand of him. I love piloting him to that place, and focusing him with pin-point accuracy, while at the same time, pulling his conscious rug out and pushing him to flight.

I hold him in the highest regard and feel his strength of character and self, for choosing to give me that much control. On the flip side, if I didn't have such deep and abiding respect for him, I would have much less desire to dominate him.

He is my perfect compliment, and I wish everyone could find the level of bliss we are experiencing!



seekingOwnertoo -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/19/2010 2:09:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

I found that mixing D/s and romance is far more complicated and full of drama than mixing SM and romance


Truthfully, isn't romance ... in a vanilla sense ... complicated and full of Drama, too ???

In my experience, there is always a power struggle in most relationships ...

whether vanilla, work related, or even buddies at the bar ...

To me the key is in choosing who ones partner is ... and who they are!

I do believe, the who you choose part ... can limit complications and drama ... therefore making a D/s relationship (or any relationship for that matter) far easier ...

So I guess it is also appropriate, to say congratulations to SthrnCom4t and Otter ... because it seems from the post .. they have found something ... that many of us wish for.




YSG -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/19/2010 5:11:18 AM)

Personally, I cannot have a D/s relationship without at least a romantic feeling towards my partner. I dont know why, but that is how my brain works. Also, I cannot imagine not acting out those feelings, wether its service, taking her out on dates, etc.

It actually saddens me that so many of the ladies on here do not want romance in a D/s relationship, though I do understand your reasons. However, I am happy for both you and otter, Sthrn [:)]



ClassIsInSession -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/19/2010 5:31:29 AM)

I think the area that sticks with most people on the dynamics of romance mixed with D/S is that when Dominant partner goes all sappy and places the Submissive on a pedestal it blows the dynamic, but then I think this is the misnomer of what romance really is. How often in a "romance" novel is the buff guy falling all over himself doting on the girl of his passion? He isn't, because he is almost always portrayed as the Dominant. Yet, few could argue that the scenes of such novels, canned and formulaic as they may be (and not unlike all archetypes in the Jungian sense) are intensely passionate, hot and often border right on the D/S dynamic.

Because I won't force gender on the Dominant/Submissive roles, I'll say that in my opinion, the key to having romance in a D/S relationship comes from remembering that strength is expressed in both roles, however the way it is expressed is different and complimentive.

It can be intensely D/S to describe in detail to your submissive/slave how attractive you think they are, and why you think so, while maintaining the seat of authority.

Crowley put it nicely in the Book of the Law:

I am above you and in you. My ecstasy is in yours. My joy is to see your joy.

... For I am divided for love's sake, for the chance of union.

...For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect.

...Let Asar be the adorant, Isa the sufferer;

....Be goodly therefore: dress ye all in fine apparel; eat rich foods and drink sweet wines and wines that foam! Also, take your fill and will of love as ye will, when, where and with whom ye will! But always unto me.

...But ecstasy be thine and joy of earth: ever To me! To me!



CunLinguist -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/19/2010 9:52:00 PM)

Thank you everyone for the thoughtful and verdant responses. I have found this thread to be very enlightening and helpful. I'd like to directly respond to a few posts...

@Madame4a and OttersSwim, in regard to getting out in the "real" world, not relying solely on CM and exploring kink Japan, I've mustered up the courage to do so here in Japan and it has so far blown away my expectations! While the language barrier does pose unique challenges I have found that I am meeting people at a place of mutual interest and passion and it provides a fun bridge to reach across the language and cultural gap. And it's given me new motivation to dive into the language.

@LadyLou, Lockit, and hausboy, I'm sorry if I've offended you with the language of my original post. I did not at all intend on placing a whole gender into a certain box or category. I absolutely recognize that there is an unquantifiable and unqualifiable array of different people, personalities, and interests out there. I don't mean to flippantly use labels or demean anyone by relying on stereotypes. I guess I'm still very much wrapping my mind around what this lifestyle means to me and how to describe it. Language fails me quite frequently when I try to verbalize these complex thoughts and emotions, please be patient. And I thank you for taking the time to respond to my post regardless of the fact that my original post might have rubbed you the wrong way.

@LadyHibiscus... Well said! I really resonant with "When we play we are showing a part of our deepest selves." I guess though that, as I said above, I'm still trying to come to terms with what that "deeper selve" is trying to tell me and why the lifestyle is so important to me. I've probably tussled with these ideas, emotions, and needs for a decade now and I've just recently started to gain some semblance of confidence and comfortableness with it all. I realize that my original post may not convey that very well but as I said, language tends to fail me to describe everything that's going on in my head regarding these topics.






Lockit -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/19/2010 11:04:48 PM)

Cunlinguist... I'm not rubbed the wrong way. lol You didn't offend me in any way. What you said was not personal and what I said wasn't personal. It was just the way I feel and I often say it like I see it for different reasons. I hope you can see a couple of them in what I said. (smile)



CunLinguist -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/19/2010 11:11:47 PM)

Yeah I totally understand Lockit. I just want to make sure that people understand I'm coming at these questions from pure intentions. I love all the varied perspectives that have been shared in this thread so far. I think it adds to the mystique of diving into a new relationship (vanilla or D/s) and not knowing what exactly to expect. So many times it can go the wrong direction but its reassuring to hear from some people on this thread that there are also many positive experiences.



Vendaval -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/19/2010 11:19:26 PM)

I am not the most romantic of persons being more pragmatic. D/s relationships may or may not include sex or emotional attachment. Sexual relationships may or may not have a romantic component. I do need to at least enjoy the persons company but the whole "being in love" aspect is not that important to me. Sometimes the other person(s) idealize the relationship and that can end very badly.

[sm=welcome.gif]



LadyRian -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/20/2010 6:05:12 AM)

I personally am looking for a romantic D/s relationship, because love is important to me, D/s is important to me, and in my opinion the ideal relationship  for me will be a combination of both.

No, D/s doesn't need  to have a romantic component. It doesn't need a sexual component. But for me personally, I find that without the romance/sexual aspect it feels really empty, and becomes boring very quickly, because to me it's then reduced to nothing more than an act, a transient thrill without substance.  It's just the way I feel about it.



SthrnCom4t -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/21/2010 9:45:49 AM)

I'd like to add that I see relationships as the sum of many small points of connection. Sometimes those points are very solid and powerful, and sometimes they completely miss the mark for one or all parties.

I've had relationships consisting of many dynamics, bases upon which points were connected. Lustful relationships that took your breath away from a sexual perspective, but where we couldn't agree on what restaurant to go to. Beautifully orchestrated companionship, with just the most minuscule of sexual tension. A partner with a  great work ethic where we both contributed significantly to the bank account, but couldn't vacation together without nearly throwing things.

Sadly, sometimes we get angry at the other person because they aren't meeting our needs. We want/need, X, and their actions don't even come close to fulfilling us.

I don't see past relationships as failures, I use them to learn about myself. What really worked for me, and what didn't. On the next go round, I looked at the other person, to assess *who* he was. I don't take for face value what people say they are....we all have our own definitions, perceptions, and filters. By knowing myself well, I can choose wisely and pick someone likely to meet my needs as I know them.

To the OP....indeed, we are each complicated and unique individuals. Our tendencies are labels/boxes as a means of fostering communication and understanding. (even when trying to understand ourselves). A mistake I made in the beginning, was in assigning a label to myself as I didn't see the option of embracing a full spectrum. (that binary thinking)

For example, in my profile I state, "Sometimes I like to drive, and sometimes I like to be chauffeured." It took me a while to embrace my Dominance, because I am not the type, no matter the circumstance, to know exactly what I want and how I want it. I have moments of clarity, and other times I am undecided and open to suggestion. How do you label and describe this? Is one part wrong? Is one part less Dominant? Perhaps I'm dense, but it took me a while, to find that comfort zone and self-awareness around myself.

OP, continue to find glory in your experiences. Embrace all aspects without trying too hard to make them fit in a particular box. Depending on who you are interacting with, you will find different partners pushing different buttons. The aspect that holds true, no matter your orientation or gender, is your personal power and ability to create a safe environment for your partner. To accept and embrace all of Her by actively using yours strengths, intelligence, and creativity to put energy toward a mutually fulfilling goal.



LadyNTrainer -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/21/2010 10:35:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CunLinguist
I'm curious about the intersection of romance and D/s. I'm just calling it “romance” for lack of a better term... could mean marriage, dating relationship, life-partner, etc.


Sadly, as long as you have a sexually explicit screen name, you are unlikely to find many women interested in you from a romantic POV.  You've already firmly categorized yourself as either a horndog to be avoided by intelligent women looking for a more rounded experience, or at best as a shallow sex toy.

quote:

But as I search around CM I get a little discouraged. First of all, there seems to be a plethora of women out there who are looking to get paid to dominate.


And there are a plethora of random horny guys out there leading with their dicks and tongues, demanding instant kinky gratification and not really giving a shit who we are as human beings.  The natural response to that demand is "what's in it for me?"  Because without being paid, there honestly isn't much fun in catering to the whims of some random guy who thinks of women as the drive-through McDomme's to gratify his urges.  When you lead with explicit sex, you tend to get treated differently than if you are leading with your personality, your intelligence and your nice, classy manners.   So your perspective may already be a bit skewed for this reason.


quote:

I'm curious to know if most of these women keep their kink-related lives separate from their more vanilla-ish romantic life? Do many of you allow yourselves to fall in love with a submissive toy? Or do you only seek romantic trysts outside of “work”? 


Oh hells no, I couldn't imagine having a vanilla relationship, that wouldn't be much fun at all.  For me there is romance only in ownership and desire so fierce it leaves a mark on willing flesh.   Bring me the crimson-petaled roses of your blood on my pale silk sheets, and the heady dark wine of your suffering moaned into my mouth.  There is no greater love than this.


quote:

Another related question I have concerns vulnerability and respect. As far as vulnerability is concerned, how far will you let a submissive “in”? It seems like it might be tough to let your guard down around your submissive(s). I can totally understand this in a pay-for-service relationship but what about with a sub you are romantically involved/interested with? Still difficult to do?


Difficult, yes.  Not impossible.  I don't attribute that so much to my being a dominant as to my general personality; I don't make friends all that easily either, nor do I like to let anyone see when I'm feeling less than fully confident and strong.  It's not easy for me to let anyone in, but it is something I do consciously work on with both of my committed partners, who are collared to me.  My primary partner has gotten a lot farther in this respect than my secondary, but it's possible that this is largely a function of time, as I have had more years to get comfortable with him. 


quote:

And as for my question regarding respect, how easy or difficult is it for you to have respect for a submissive after you've subjected him to frequent humiliations and degradations? Once again, I guess this isn't imperative in a pay-for-service situation nor with a sub who is just a play partner. But what about your sub husband or life-partner? Are you able to sissify him, slap him around a bit, have him beg and grovel and then still look at him with a sense of respect and equanimity the next morning?


Yes.  Sissification isn't my thing, but gender bending is, and both my partners can seriously rock the lingerie and be sexy femmes when they want to be.  I generally approve and think it's hot on occasion.  My primary is more dignified no matter what abuse and torment I heap on him, and that's lovely; my secondary is much better at begging and groveling and being unashamedly submissive and slutty, and that's very pretty too.  I deeply respect and love them both.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/21/2010 10:43:44 AM)

Thanks, LNT, for your cogent remarks. [:)]

CL, I really do recommend that you change your screenname. Your posts so far show that you are NOT a sleazy HNG, so why have a name that doesn't reflect your reality?



hausboy -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/21/2010 3:07:23 PM)

CunLinguist--
thanks for your thread and your response--I think I understand better where you're coming from, no offense taken here.  I think it's pretty clear from all of the posts that there is mutual admiration and respect between Dommes/subs, tops/bottoms etc. even if the activities engaged in involve humiliation or other practices that might be misconstrued as a lack of respect.

overall, I thought you generated some good dialogue, methinks.



LadyRian -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/21/2010 3:18:33 PM)

Indeed. Excellent topic. Thank you. CL.



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