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EligibleOwner -> RE: how to come across as being a sub. Coming from a vanilla background (9/21/2010 5:39:39 AM)
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Here's my attempt at constructive advice.
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ORIGINAL: viscera
I want to be able to attract more doms in general in making it very clear to men that I'm the submissive type.
Great! I for one love that attitude. Of course it's true we're all very different, but just saying that is seriously attractive in itself. I also think it's a perfectly reasonable ambition.
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However, I'd classify myself as an intellectual and favor the "mental" domination as well. But I definitely love the feeling of being outsmarted sexually, intimately, and being under he control of another. My outward first impression is very intimidating: I'm well spoken, mature for my age, a pretty avid musician, excel well in academics, and I have a lot of ambition.
I don't understand the "however". I think of myself as an intellectual too, and I need to be with an intellectual woman, not just a submissive one. I suspect quite a few other men are like that, too, and the thing is, I don't think we're "intimidated" by intelligence, talent or maturity at all. There just isn't this "intimidation-submission" axis, and I think it may help you to junk that thought. Perhaps some men are "intimidated" by an intelligent woman, but if so, they're not the sort of man you want.
My experience, from the women I've known who've thought of themselves as submissive, is that they're hard to beat, as a group, in terms of intelligence and thoughtfulness of all kinds. The phrase I'd use is this: they often seem to have a noticeable "inner life". By the way, I sometimes wonder whether submissive women are more musical on average - certainly a number I've known are. My point is, you're already beaming out a lot of the right signals to the men you want. I'll suggest some other things below. But first ...
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Some background and context:
So i've been dating this vanilla guy for a year now ...
This does seem to me to be a source of potential confusion because here, you're not trying to attract a man who's dominant either consciously (which I think is what you need) or unconsciously; you're trying to work out whether this one man is, or could be, dominant, and to attract him in particular. Not the same thing at all. There's no problem with doing both at the same time of course, but important to keep them clear in your mind.
So, regarding him, what worries me is his telling you he's "not ready for a relationship". Mm. This strongly suggests he specifically doesn't want one with you (sorry: it's just how it sounds to me). I honestly find it hard to imagine why any man would not want you, but then there are all types of men. From what you say, I somehow doubt the problem is that you're not communicating your submissive interests to him: it sounds more like he's got that (He commands you? He ought to have the point, have the hots permanently and have thoughts of you in a bridal veil and an eternity collar, if he's the right sort of man), but isn't very interested. But if you really suspect that, try just talking directly to him about it. You're strong, mature and confident enough for that not to be humiliating, and if he's such a small man that he makes you feel like that, well, that just shows your strength and honesty, and his weakness. It might be a very important thing for you to do, at some point, with a man you feel you can do it safely with. Easy for me to say, I know, as the sort of man who'd love to hear that.
One tip I got from a woman. We'd met, got attracted and were back at my flat snogging (a couple of dates later) when she suddenly asked if I'd let her spank me (we hadn't discussed anything kinky, and I'd been wondering when to bring it up). When she said that, it made me laugh and of course made me a bit disappointed. But it broke the ice on all this in a nice way, and cut through the tensions. I thought for a bit about whether just so say "no" and cool things down, but then decided to tell her that, actually, my plan had been to spank her before too long. Her response was to beam a smile and say "that's the right answer!", which was great, of course. It was her way of spotting the men she wanted. If they were okay with her spanking them, she had a bit of fun but that was it. What she wanted was for them to push right back.
Okay, back to attracting dominant men generally. Of course all I can really suggest is ways of attracting me, which I doubt is what you want. I'm quite "Taken in Hand" orientated, so perhaps a bit more traditional and gentlemanly about dominance, and valuing traditional concepts of femininity, and their "performance", more than a lot of men would. But some of this stuff may have more general application, and some of these ideas come from submissive women themselves, who've tried them on me or told me about them. Plus, apart from age and location I think I'm in your target market (as a writer and university teacher) so it may be men a bit like me who you're trying to appeal to.
First, your intellectual and musical accomplishments are great. The sort of man you want won't be indifferent about them: he'll love them. They show that inner life he's looking for, and an ability to create with him an intense shared mental and emotional life (which D/s relationships are based on I think). These things enhance your attraction, they don't pull against it. By the way, I love the musical greeting you've recorded. Can you record one in higher quality (to me at least, perfectionism is very attractive - the determination not just to do tasks but to do them outstandingly)?
Second, you can use the concept of a woman's "accomplishments" when relating to a man you're interested in and who knows you at least a bit. Make it clear you're thinking of doing something to improve yourself (if you're really bold, say you're improving yourself to be the best you can be for the man you want to fall in love with). Ask him what kinds of things he'd like his girlfriend or wife or even daughter (we all think in slightly different ways about these relationships) to be be able to do. Make it clear it could be academic or practical or even domestic. If you've been bold, he ought already to be thinking "Sheesh! What is going on here?". If he's enthusiastic, comes back with something that makes sense, and offers to help, then great. If it were me, for instance, I'd know I was in the most interesting conversation of my week, and would make absolutely sure you knew I was very interested in your project, and prepared to make time to follow it and support you. I'd probably say I'd love to know how you're getting on - and I'd like it if you asked me if we could meet so you could let me know how you're doing, or better still let me check your progress. I realise I've gone on about this a bit, sorry - it's turning into a maledom fantasy. The important point is this: sure, lots of men who fancy you anyway would be flattered and maybe a bit bemused by this. But a man who's never really noticed you before - if he's the intellectually dominant type you're after - will certainly have noticed you if you do this sort of thing, and will really engage with it. I reckon.
By the way, I always want to tell submissive women this: what you have trumps looks, figure and everything else, as far as the men you want are concerned. You're pretty anyway, but maybe it helps to be reminded of this.
One woman I know a bit really enjoys asking men to decide things for her, and I think she uses that to find men she wants, too. Looking at a menu? Ask him to decide what you should have. Say "You decide". I reckon you can find out a lot about men by doing this. Some will be confused, some dismissively decisive but uninterested, some made a bit indecisive by the responsibility, others pleased but also caring, wanting to make a good choice for you, others just commanding about it. You'll know what you like and maybe if you persist will see if a man can grow with the choices you give him. Another line a woman I used to know uses is "You're the man!". She used that when there was some choice she and a man needed to make together, like where to go or what to do, or what order to do things in. If he asked her, she'd say "You're the man!" and maybe "we'll do what you decide". See how he likes that. A tip: negative feedback to him about his choices soon after he's made them will spoil this one. Save that for periodic reviews of your relationship once you're with him.
Just do little things for a man you're after. I love little services like having my glass held for me at a party, not in a showy fetishy way, but unobtrusively. So if you know he's off to the bathroom, or getting food, or whatever, don't hesitate to say to a man "Can I hold your glass?". If I come back and get the feeling that glass has been top of your mind since I left, then I'm interested in you. Especially if, rather than just handing me the glass back, you ask me if I'd like it back. I once knew a woman who sort of "attended" to me when we were out eating and drinking. She'd watch for my glass emptying and offer me a refill. She'd sort of clear and tidy things away a little. Tiny things, and not noticeable to others, but lovely.
Actually that makes me think asking for things, or asking for permission to do things, can be a good way of sending out the right signals. It sounds silly, and it's a little thing you can build into interaction without exposing yourself too much. If you're with a man alone, and are thinking about going to the bathroom (sorry, no doubt this is a fetish of mine intruding), don't just get up, or tell him you're going. Ask: "Is it okay if ... ?". Yes, you can risk coming over as incredibly socially nervous - but is that really such a terrible risk? I think at first a lot of guys will put this down to shyness, but if you do it in a confident manner, you'll confound that assumption. Do it a few times and I bet the majority of men will become a bit confused and/or irritated by what you're doing. But a minority will think: "Wow! I like her." Remember you can do things like wait until he invites you to sit, or whatever. All these things risk making you look old-fashioned and stiffly polite, but they would mark you out to the man who knows what he's looking for. I know if you did this stuff with me, you'd be offered a relationship very quickly indeed.
I've written you an essay here, and I hope have given you some little tricks and hints that might help you. I'm sure you can think of a few other things on the same lines. But here's a final thought. The important thing is to carry these things off without undermining them by humour or irony. If a woman says to me "Thank you Sir!" in a jokey way, that means nothing to me - because it seems to mean nothing to her. If she says it plainly and without defensive humour, it seizes my attention and makes me want to know her. Once you get this, it can be quite powerful. If you're with a man and want to convey to him that you like being kept within bounds, you could do something like say you're having a chocolate craving (to take something that speaks to a fair few women) and then say "I need a spanking I think". But say it straight, not as a joke. If he hears it as a joke, he'll take it that way anyway, and I don't think you're revealing yourself as much as you think. But the lack of jokiness in your tone will be audible to those who are really listening.
Enough.
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