Internal Slavery (Full Version)

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RiotGirl -> Internal Slavery (4/23/2006 11:19:48 AM)

Now granted i logically do not believe in internal slavery, i've always been absolutetly curious about it.  Does it really exsist?  How does it exsist, why does it exsist?  Logically its virutally impossible.

a sub/slave can leave when ever they want - all they need to do is walk out the door. 

Very very true.  Yet no matter, they dont.  Unless of course, i suppose, there is something they feel is wrong and its not "right" to stay.  i suppose.  i'm also told (by Himself) that its also not being able to even contemplate disobeying.  Granted i've only been there once and for a short period of time.  (as a mental state)  Yet i always wonder, how much apart of my life is that.  i've read a fair amount on it, but i always still wonder.  Why?  How?  (okay so i sorta understand the how)  It comes from being solely dependent.  i even read about how to do it.  Yet, its logically impossible or so i feel.  i've of course spoken about it with Himself and how its impossible and other then him disagreeing with me thats about what i get. 

This is prolly tmi - but i have yet to figure it out.  No matter how it goes, or how unhappy i am for the time, or whatever - to contemplate being with out him, is too much to bear.  Yet i've tried contemplating it.  Yes i can see steps of another life with him not there - but future wise.. no thanks.  Why (with out logic) does the fact of not being with him, leave me feeling like the world is being ripped into two?  Oh and i've tried.  Usually with the thoughts "this isnt right i shouldnt stand for it"  i swear if i could get other ppl, and societal's upbringing out my head i would generally be very content.  Even if he ignored me non stop and fullfilled non of my needs.  This i know as i was in a similiar relationship (unrelated to BDSM) where i was content just to be.  So it has come up of Master and i seperating.  Why does it leave me in a state of panic?  Unable to breathe?  Literally, with utter chaos reining inside of me?  Why, once when i managed to walk out while he was sleeping, was i at a gas station huddled into a ball unable to stand?  Miserable?  Why are all moods, thoughts centered around him.

Why is he the center of my life?  Even when i dont want him to be?  Why is he able to arouse me, no matter how unsexy, or pissed off, or if i dont want to be?  Why, god forbid do i always obey?  In 18 months, no matter how "strong" i swear i'll be, or how much i swear i'm going to stand my ground - do i always obey.  This he knows.  It seems, that no matterwhat it is that he would like, or want me to do - i always obey.  Granted i could think of quite a few terrible things he could tell me to do.  Yet i know that my mental state is very important to him.  To ask me to, say steal, would leave me feeling terrible about myself if i did so.  It would hurt me in an odd way, as i tend to be judgemental about myself.  So theres never a worry about things of the nature like that.  Basically, if i dont want to do something, say shoot myself in the foot, i can actually see myself doing it, purely on the fact that if he wanted it, i'd be just happy do to so.  Okay mostly. 

Yes, i have tested this all out.  As i always test and try to figure out what confuses me.  i hate being confused.  i have pushed and pulled here and there, thinking all the while - logically i can do this. 

Even my own frickin will, which i have always been proud of has turned against me.  Its his.  (scratches head)  How is that POSSIBLE???  Its like everything about me, is his.  Though i fight it, i fight it quite heartedly (as i'm sure you've seen) and he lets me fight it, until of course he's done with me fighting it and comes around and shows me me what just seems impossible. 

the only thing "close" that i can come to a reasonable explanation is internal enslavement.  Yet, that doesnt even really fit the bill.

i fight it, often, as i think the underlying cause is - its impossible.  Yet no matter what i do, it comes back to it.  Its impossible to really literally Own Some one.  Yet time and time again, he shows this to me.  Waiting for me to grasp the concept i suppose.  Which i can not, as its impossible.  Logically, sanely impossible.  It goes against what i know, and what i've heard.  How is it possible to even own them past their consent.  (other then of course the consent given in the begining and its the last consent needed) 

i'd like to clear this up for myself.  As i think, it would please him greatly if i could finally grasp it.  It'd probably save alot of frustrations, alot of "fighting it" on my part which generally creates unpleasentness.  Which of course he doesnt enjoy, even though he usually ignores it.  i just know what he wants and he doesnt want me fighting something he already knows.  He prolly doesnt understand why i fight it, i should just accept, but i'm a thinking person and i can not accept something logically impossible. 

AND - for all those that say "a sub/slave can walk out when ever they choose, its as easy as putting one foot infront of the other"  i disagree and i've even proven it with myself.  i'd get as far as the drive way and thats about what my legs would carry me too.  Its like a CULT!  i'd have to be deprogrammed from the cult. 

So ah.. anyone explain?  Can anyone explain internal enslavement in detail so i can have a better understanding of it?



twicehappy -> RE: Internal Slavery (4/23/2006 11:53:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

So ah.. anyone explain?  Can anyone explain internal enslavement in detail so i can have a better understanding of it?
 

I wish i could explain all the complex emotional interactions involved in internal slavery, otherwise often termed 24/7 or TPE.

I can only tell you two things here;

First, you read all the posts from ScooterTrash, my Master, ShiftedJewel, my Mistress, and myself, we have exchanged emails; how do you perceive the dynamic between us?

I am their owned 24/7 slave, ours is most definitely a TPE relationship.

Second, go back and read your own post. Whether or not you realize it what you just described is the heart wrenching emotional roller coaster ride of one who is bound to another in internal slavery or a 24/7 TPE relationship, yet has not reached the point of settling down and coming to terms with who and what they are.

The only thing i can add here is take it from one who knows, you are going to struggle, it is part of the process. Not an easy part i will grant you. There is no shame in being exactly who and what you are. If and when you reach that epiphany you will relax and become content, joyful, at ease with yourself.

In the meantime you know how to reach us and are welcome to do so.





Rule -> RE: Internal Slavery (4/23/2006 12:05:30 PM)

It is what characterizes a kajira, a true slave, RiotGirl.
 
Some people are born with more than one body. They are masters of their own bodies and also of the other bodies that were born and destined to be part of them. Such other bodies - subs - mature physically and educationally and spiritually before they meet their owner and meanwhile temporarily are taken care of by a very small self (the ego). It is when they meet their master and are being owned that this very small self becomes superfluous as the other body of the owner has now become part of him. Eventually the very small self departs its body - often aided by torture - and all that is left is the owner with his own body and his slave body. The slave then has become part of the master. So what is happening to you is a natural process, kajira. You appear to be nearly there - even without being tortured. Well done! Do not fight it, accept it. Let go. You have done your job, you have prepared his other body and his other set of brains. Now it is his turn to command it. Trust him.
 
I will mourn the death of your very small self and I am sure that your master will do so also, but I will also rejoice, as will he, for it will be like the death of a caterpillar when it metamorphoses into a beautiful butterfly. By departing from your body, what you leave behind will become the incarnation of the Goddess of Love, one of the six primary gods. Know that in my perception you - and all other incarnations of the Goddess, all true slaves - are one of the holy beings.
 
All is well, kajira. Trust in spiritual reality, i.e. 'God'. What is happening to you is how it was meant to be, even before you were conceived. It is all part of the Great Plan.



RiotGirl -> RE: Internal Slavery (4/23/2006 12:19:56 PM)

Ah, now i'm sort of shy and embarressed and cant think of anything to say, other then Thank you.  i just read your replies to Hiimself and for some reason, Himself knowing what was said aaaaaaaaalllllllways makes me shy.  Doh!

LOL i hate to be a pain the butt, but i'm not a kajira!!  Heck i dont even know enough to be one. 

Twice - as for your relationship - i have yet to see the dynamics.  i of course eventually will.  It wasnt until recently that it dawned on me you were Owned by Them.  Sometimes i'm an airhead.  LOL  So far as to what i've percieved is - you are all very well fitted, you all have alot of experience, you are all very happy and there is a kitten biting my foot.  i do not see any struggles, except a very well rounded and grounded group of people.  Plus, you've all are very intelligent.  Ah and you are bikers and love it, you've had two pervious Owners, Jewel is contemplating a male submissive, Jewel despite her size reaches arcoss Scooter to feel your collar, you want help cleaning the harleys, and Scooter has you were panties while wearing jeans.  Ah, and you like to race.  So basically, as with the above perception, i also gather that you all know how to have fun and enjoy doing so.  Though i have yet to percieve the "dynamic" and how things work, flow and go together.  Except i think it was Scooter that collared you and you got 2 Owners for half the price.  heh.

So, now that i'm feeling less shy = )  You view it as "the struggle"  Agreed!  Yet how is it possible?  Is it really internal enslavement, i suppose it is to you.  hmmmm Still logically impossible and i know our, goal is 24/7 TPE, yet lol, i never percieved that to be IE.  What can i say, i'm an airhead at times.   Thank you for making some sense.

Tho i still think its impossible!  LOL




LaMspeach -> RE: Internal Slavery (4/23/2006 12:21:31 PM)

Hello Riotgirl,

Im sorry to say i don't have answers to your questions as to why or how we become owned or internally enslaved, why we cant just walk away, why we obey.... It was very scary for me to admit that there wasn't anything i wouldn't do for Master, that i trusted him completely and there was no command i wouldn't obey.  BUT once i stopped questioning myself and started to embrace my enslavement, realizing that all of these things were part of me and it was as natural as breathing ( for me) The struggle within me ended. i found a freedom beyond belief, a place were i could be content and happy.





RiotGirl -> RE: Internal Slavery (4/23/2006 12:22:33 PM)

Just wanted to say again - thank you.  As you make it seem much more pleasant.  i suppose even it is impossible, it'd be a pleasant thing to become a Goddess = )  hehehehe  Aaaaah but i dont want any deaths!  i like myself just fine!  Sort of.  <grins>  i suppose i am very anti change.  i like familiarity, and i am very familiar with myself, in all my ins and outs.  Granted the way you make it sound, sounds like it'd be a good change.. but what would i become?  LOL  Negative, positive side effects?  hmmmmm  i feel resistant!



RiotGirl -> RE: Internal Slavery (4/23/2006 12:24:03 PM)

quote:

peach ~ LordandMasters devoted slave
"Only when the year has grown cold does one know that the pine and cypress are the last to wither"


whoa!!!! LAM has a slave?  good golly how do you put up with him <weg>  Congratulations! 



twicehappy -> RE: Internal Slavery (4/23/2006 12:47:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

So, now that i'm feeling less shy = )  You view it as "the struggle"  Agreed!  Yet how is it possible?  Is it really internal enslavement, i suppose it is to you.  hmmmm Still logically impossible and i know our, goal is 24/7 TPE, yet lol, i never percieved that to be IE.  What can i say, i'm an airhead at times.   Thank you for making some sense.

Tho i still think its impossible!  LOL


It is no more impossible than love itself. I am theirs; they own me by the dictionary definition of slave. I could no more walk away than you can.

It is beautiful beyond words, has as many aspects as stars in the sky, being owned by them totally and without reservation gives my soul wings and allows me the freedom to be what i am, a slave.


I hope for you you reach acceptance of this, it is the most euphoric feeling you will ever know. Maybe someday we will get to giggle about  this together  then.



Areflectionofyou -> RE: Internal Slavery (4/23/2006 12:54:06 PM)

When a slave reaches the point of complete enslavement, body, mind and heart, she/he would find it nearly impossible to be without their owner.



MistWalker -> RE: Internal Slavery (4/23/2006 12:57:03 PM)

walking away , can and is done, submissive, slave no matter. but it is far from an easy task. i have known a few that have done so, and the only reasons that finaly pushed them to tha point, excessive abuse,lack of any form of respect, and the suport of friends, to show them they could in fact do it.. it is not an easy thing to do in most situations though, things being bad or not that attachemnt is so strong.. none of mine woudl i have thought about walkign away under my own will. it took release to have me leave with any symbolance of freewill.  and while i dont proclame to be a slave by any means,  i can at times understand the mind set involved,  if only to realize its something im not yet ready for.  i would no more remove my collar then i would my wedding ring, and walk away. She is my life pure and simple,i do belive i would do nearly anything to remain in her grace and life, even if things were bad i cant see myself  just walking away.. we are forever bound.. 



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Internal Slavery (4/23/2006 1:24:15 PM)

The fact is that I know the same is true for many masters as well- it simply would not be possible for them to end the relationship.

And I know the same is true of people who are in vanilla relationships.

I think as long as you understand where you are and accept the consequences of that, then you're fine. 



meatcleaver -> RE: Internal Slavery (4/23/2006 1:40:45 PM)

There is enough evidence to suggest that you can be socialised or pressured into a particular role and become dependent but your description simply sounds like love or infatuation. There are many reasons why one can't escape the presence of someone, some healthy and some not so healthy. Many abuse victims find it difficult to leave their abuser for example.



BitaTruble -> RE: Internal Slavery (4/23/2006 1:41:04 PM)

quote:

AND - for all those that say "a sub/slave can walk out when ever they choose, its as easy as putting one foot infront of the other"  i disagree and i've even proven it with myself.  i'd get as far as the drive way and thats about what my legs would carry me too.  Its like a CULT!  i'd have to be deprogrammed from the cult. 

So ah.. anyone explain?  Can anyone explain internal enslavement in detail so i can have a better understanding of it?


Riot, you just explained it, hon. When you accept it as your truth, then you'll understand it.

Celeste



enthralled -> RE: Internal Slavery (4/23/2006 1:51:27 PM)

I have these questions myself sometimes. Though I'm not in a D/s relationship at this time, I was nearly collared to a Dominant at one point and remain friends with that person now. I can't help but want to do for him, even though he's not my Dominant.
It really pisses me off at times too! lol

Respectfully,
enthralled



HayaSierra -> RE: Internal Slavery (4/23/2006 2:44:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

LOL i hate to be a pain the butt, but i'm not a kajira!!  Heck i dont even know enough to be one. 



Greetings everyone,

I would consider it less of being a kajira, but more of being a natural slave. A kajira from what I understand is but one type of natural slave, found in one culture. A natural slave is found in multiple cultures and can be male, female or even transgendered. Your milage may vary.

Back to the original concept, I believe true slavery is possible, because I have witnessed it myself. But I also have realized that many, though they long to be owned, are a little scared when this indeed becomes a reality for them. I can't really put words to this, but I have witnessed it twice already. Once online with one I own, and once in Real Life with my pet Rokarr. Just a shudder or a knee-jerk reaction, some doubt, and having to take some time to come to terms with that not just your body has been enslaved, but your mind and your heart as well.

And here is my personal opinion about it.

Even if you are a natural at something you do. Even if you are longing for something to become your reality. Even if you know you need it as much as breathing -- when you experience it for the first time there is a slight knee jerk reaction. "This can't be", "I'm not worthy of this", "I like this so much I cannot imagine living without it" -- all very strong emotions, and all very valid, and several of which show up in various situations and individuals. Then comes the one that hit me over the head like a brick by four. I've been called a natural Owner more than once, but I feel far from "experienced" -- as such I sometimes have these knee-jerk reactions as well. Where I know I really want this, and I feel REALLY at home with a situation -- but still this bit of lingering of the peanut gallery asking me "Why" and "How", especially when I sit down and think about it rather than just letting it flow.

I've summed it up as societal conditioning, all in all. A slave feeling he or she cannot truly be owned because society says this cannot be and feeling temporarely lost and confused when it indeed occurs. A Owner realizing that indeed they CAN know how to do something naturally without learning it, but society drilling it into our heads what can and cannot be truth.

The feelings that you describe Riotgirl, make a lot of sense to me. you are owned, body, mind, heart and soul. you are likely just coming to terms with this. While you might be able to see a glimse of a life beyond your Owner, such a reality is too harsh to bear and not something you like to think about. While you might want to walk out one day it would be nearly impossible to do so. While you might not wish to obey at all times you cannot even comprehend willingly saying No to your Owner. A natural slave when with his or her Owner cannot simply walk out, and finds it hard to disobey. I cannot stress this enough. It would be like walking out on your Mother or Father whom you love and respect dearly. It would be like cutting off a piece of  yourself. Take heart though, Riotgirl, your Owner probably feels just as strongly as you do. Yes, he would likely let you go if you wanted out, but it would likely also tear him apart. It would be like him loosing a part of himself. Work with him, and let go, even if you do so slowly. Trust him. Let your inner nature come out without listening to what society says. Be owned and don't be afraid of it or think it to be impossible. It not only very real, but also very possible -- and if it is your true nature it will make you the happiest you could ever to be at the feet of your Owner and content in your place!

:).

Haya Sierra ---



KnightofMists -> RE: Internal Slavery (4/23/2006 3:54:49 PM)

Internal slavery, why do you think it is Logically Impossible?   Where is your logically arguement that states that internal slavery is not possible? 

this is rather silly but somehow it might be fitting...

No matter how impossible it may appear, if you rule out all other options and leave one no matter how improbable it may seem.. logic dictates it to be the right answer.  So if you have no other explaination except internal slavement to explain your continuely submission to your Masters will... is it not logically possible even if you don't see how or why.



RiotGirl -> RE: Internal Slavery (4/23/2006 3:58:18 PM)

Hm <quirks a cynical unbelieving eye at everyone>  You must surely have me mistaken.  LOL i am not this illogical "owned" nor am i really a "natural" slave.  Nor do i need to be.  Heck i dont even know why i want to be.  Granted i feel like i do, but that doesnt make it the truth, no?  Its logically impossible.  Cmon Twice - debate this with me!  Granted, being owned can be a state of contentment, and surrender can be freedom - this i dont agree.  i just dont see it in my reality.  i'm too nutz!!  Heck, i do disobey, but only when i know it'll slide <weg>  Maybe thats being too smart for my own good?  Simple things, simple things.  IE cussing generally is not okay, but at times, it slides, at others it doesnt.  Though i'm trying!  Making good progress at this whole "disobeying" thing.  Granted my favorite line is still "are you sure you really want me to do that?" 

i suppose, Sierra it is abit of a knee jerk reaction.  As i've sat here for a moment to think about it.  Running through a myrad of thoughts brought me to a moment of shudder.  LOL  Though i could prolly much easier walk out on one of my parents them Himself.  Infact i have in a round about way over the years.  No, i wouldnt either feel any sort of panic at the thought of not seeing them again.  There is only one person on the planet that could even come close to how i feel.  Yet with that person, it wouldnt be panic, it'd be a surge of adrenaline, a surge of power as i would most assuredly stop it.  But that being said, it would be the only other thing on this planet that i couldnt foresee being able to handle. 

Brings to mind a good point with about how its possible. How is love possible?  hmmmm  Maybe its a chemical reaction in the brain.. which would explain it.  Its not societal views that holds me back.  Its the fact that it seems insane, and logicaly impossible (with a tad bit of fear).  hmmmm Maybe the whole logical thing is just a front, to hide the fear so i dont have to deal with it.. hmmmm  Still it seems impossible! 

And no, i dont think he'd let me go if i wanted out.  Only because i tend to get highly emotional and tend to knee jerk react.  He'd just wait around until the full impact descended upon me and then hug me till i calm down.  heh.  Himself, the brat already understands all of this, it seems. 

Ok - so it is the process of IE that i seem to be struggling back and forth with.  Ok.  This i accept.  As i've stopped often through out this post to think about what you all have said and what i am trying to say.

Thinking, as i'm prone to do.  i think Sierra has it about right.  Except it isnt really a knee jerk reaction on my part.  More of a security measure i put in place a long time ago.  Hm.  i was just thinking about the time when i was able to just "accept" some ones will, where i was happy to just be, where i didnt need to ask "whats going on"  Heck half the time i didnt even know where i was going.  i remember, that when i'd see him, he'd usually be busy, yet i was happy he didnt mind me just "hanging out"  And so i would sit, just content to be in his presence, staring off into space or quitely watching whatever he was doing. 

Yet when i think now, of going to that same place.  Now, today, in this part of my life.  i get anxious.  My head hollars nooooooooo.  And i quickly step away, mentally.  i do not want to be there, i do not want to even do the same things i used to do.  Sometimes, i catch myself doing them.  Like being told to get something, and just standing there holding it, until he notices i am there holding it.  Quietly unobtrusively holding whatever i am holding, until i am told to give it, to put it down, whatever.  i used to do it, no matter how long it took for the person to say something, sometimes if it took awhile, i'd sit down nearby so to be ready for when they said something.  Catch myself doing it now and No, i put it down and i walk away. 

<sigh>  Thank you all for responding, i suppose i understand alot more.  i get that i'm struggling with it and i get why i am struggling. 

Fear sucks and now i am left with uncertainty how to deal with what is dawning on me.  i could go to Himself and tell him all i've learned - yet that makes my heart race. 

Thank you all.  You've taught me a great deal and helped me understand alot more then i realised.  Showed me a few light bulbs and for that i am thankful.



RiotGirl -> RE: Internal Slavery (4/23/2006 4:11:34 PM)

quote:

Internal slavery, why do you think it is Logically Impossible? Where is your logically arguement that states that internal slavery is not possible?

this is rather silly but somehow it might be fitting...

No matter how impossible it may appear, if you rule out all other options and leave one no matter how improbable it may seem.. logic dictates it to be the right answer. So if you have no other explaination except internal slavement to explain your continuely submission to your Masters will... is it not logically possible even if you don't see how or why.


<chuckles> ooooh you.  Okay, my logical argument is that anyone can do anything in which they will to do.  i can go logically kick the cat.  Granted i wont, but i logically can.  Its illogical to say "i cant leave" because i have two feet, two legs and they both work fine.  i can walk down the street cant i?  (with his permission of course).  Heck when he says "get me a drink" i'm able to walk to get one.  So therefore we know i can walk, all my parts work fairly well.  So to be unable to leave.. its impossible.  One foot infront of the other.  Plus everyone has full control, capability of themselves. 

Tho that last paragraph has me stumped Knight.  You're right, i have no other plausible explanation other then he's an alien and anal probed me and stuck a micro chip in my brain.  OR he has some sort of cult going on and at night he's been sending subliminal messages.... i think i will ask him in a bit to look for his "alienness"

Edited to add::  Anyone else have another plausible explanation?



fyreredsub -> RE: Internal Slavery (4/23/2006 4:14:15 PM)

it is as simple as knowing,it is what this ones Master/Mistress wants, not what this one wants....it took my riding on a roller coaster today(gotta love being in that head space/place,lol) that it took this girl to figure it out.
the only want  or needs this girl needs to have is to please her Owners, the rest is easy,lol, well not really , we all still fight the binds that tie us to the past....but to reach the point of realization that it is not about me anymore,well, gee,*smacks self in the head* that very fact is something this one missed the boat on all along.
wanting to be owned and controlled drives me but the actual self fulfillment comes from making Master/Mistress happy.
it is in doing what they want, wish and need for me to do.ya know ldr's sux a bigone but all this time this girl was feeling like she wasn't serving because its not a 'see, feel, touch sort of thing, but it dawned on this one today that in doing the tasks and following the instructions, this one is doing and serving...she is being trained for their wishes for her and that is what it is all about.
the thought of not being their pet, well its unthinkable.
this one does carry her Owners with her where ever she goes[:)] she just didnt realize it.
edited to add, hope this makes sense to ya'll cause it did to this girl



fyreredsub -> RE: Internal Slavery (4/23/2006 4:17:20 PM)

yes to be kajira one must have a Gorean Master



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