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RE: Goodbye pork chops - 9/21/2010 7:46:48 AM   
pahunkboy


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I want to thank the chefs here that- have invited the whole list to dinner.

We will bring the wine.

STOMP

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RE: Goodbye pork chops - 9/21/2010 8:49:34 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

and never salt season meat you are cooking, wait till after........talk about loss of moisture.


Why would anyone salt meat at all. Rub it with some olive oil and garlic and the carbonization process from grilling provides a natural "saltiness"! *grins*

Calla



Anyone that would put salt on their pork chop/roast, before cooking it, deserves exactly what they will get!


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RE: Goodbye pork chops - 9/21/2010 12:54:30 PM   
DomKen


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Actually I salt all meat before cooking. Unless you're salting meat to preserve it you aren't using enough salt to dry out the meat.

As a matter of fact my favorite cheap roast beef recipe calls for salting an Eye Round roast a day ahead fairly heavily and cooking it in a very low oven (225) after searing the outside. The results rival the best standing rib roasts. For 1/3rd the price or less. the 4 lb. roast I'm going to cook tomorrow cost me less than $15.

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RE: Goodbye pork chops - 9/21/2010 1:00:37 PM   
sub4hire


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I have found that whatever state I live in at the time.  Sams club is a good place to buy meat.  Pork chops are thicker.  Steaks are thicker.

Even the local...meat shop?   The place where people take their actual cows and pigs to be cut up.  Cuts thin.  I'm sure if you had your own cow and said you wanted it cut thick it would be done to order. 
I haven't tried that, just no desire for whatever reason I cannot stomach midwest meat since moving here.  I've been sick too many times to count...I'm primarily a vegetarian now. 

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RE: Goodbye pork chops - 9/21/2010 1:37:49 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire



I have found that whatever state I live in at the time.  Sams club is a good place to buy meat.  Pork chops are thicker.  Steaks are thicker.

Even the local...meat shop?   The place where people take their actual cows and pigs to be cut up.  Cuts thin.  I'm sure if you had your own cow and said you wanted it cut thick it would be done to order. 
I haven't tried that, just no desire for whatever reason I cannot stomach midwest meat since moving here.  I've been sick too many times to count...I'm primarily a vegetarian now. 



The thing is, buying meat at any of these "economy" places isn't as economical as we'd like to pretend that it is. The "cheap" cost is offset by subsidized, force-fed grain diets, forcing accelerated growth, and causing illness in the animals (whose guts were never intended to survive, much less -thrive- on the highly acidic grain-based diet that feedlots provide). The poor diet causes illness, which requires that the lots provide prophylactic antibiotic treatment, in the hopes of keeping the animals alive until they can get them heavy enough to ship off to market. The animals practically WADE in their own feces. If you've never driven through southern New Mexico, and the feedlots there, it's an experience everyone who purchases meat needs to have. The conditions of the animals and the lots is appalling. It is NOTHING like the bucolic pictures presented on the front of the meat label.

Oh, and for those who buy bargain meats pre-packaged -- the addition of carbon monoxide makes meat in the butcher case at these bargain sites look red (which we've been taught means 'fresh', even though "fresh", unoxidized meat is actually closer to purple and blue) is done to trick people into buying meat that is old enough that, without the carbon monoxide, most people wouldn't buy it. In addition, the change from "ground on..." to "fresh until..." date stamps confuses people into thinking that they're getting meat that is healthy to eat, even when it has already begun to decay (flesh starts to decay immediately upon death, and decay is significant enough to affect the integrity of the protein within 48 hrs). Some of these companies also irradiate their meat to keep it on the shelf longer. I often wonder, as I see yet -another- recall of beef or beef products because of tainted meat, whether we will ever learn that the old adage "you get what you pay for" holds true for food as well. Better to eat -less- of good quality food, than cram our guts full of crap (sometimes literally, if the scale of fecal contamination of commercial meat is accurate).

Calla


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RE: Goodbye pork chops - 9/21/2010 1:51:09 PM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Well beig the proud owner of a large butcher knife as well as a bone saw, I don't even look at these paper thin things that'll overcook in two minutes. Now it is roasts. Tried it with both beef and pork and the results are great. You get the thckness you want and they are just as tender, if not moreso, and you can do anything you want, pan fry, broil, whatever.

If you don't have a bone saw, just buy boneless roasts. If you cut to the right thickness you can cook them right and guess what, they actually have FLAVOR ! Yes, you can again taste meat.


Mass market meat from factory farmed animals fed on mush is not going to taste great no matter what you do to it.  If you have good knives and a bone saw, I highly recommend buying on the hoof from a small local farmer and processing yourself.  Can't beat the price, or the taste.


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RE: Goodbye pork chops - 9/21/2010 1:54:15 PM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa
If you have access to craigslist, go to the Farm and Garden section, you can normally find people selling pigs by the quarter, or half, farm reared, and here's the important part...hung for the right amount of time.   It sounds disgusting, but the meat HAS to hang for a certain amount of time, to age it properly.  The commercial wharehouses basically slaughter and wrap in cellophane, very little, if any, hanging time.

The best investment you can make is in a freezer.   Also, check with local hunters and the butchers who prepare the deer,elk or etc that is brought back.  Often times we get deer meat when the hunter can't take it all.   Good meat is out there, but they don't make it easy to find :)   


I'll agree with some but not all of this.  Pork does not benefit from hanging at all.  Beef does, but it's not crucial; when I put a grass fed cow in the freezer I don't always hang, and the meat is still tender and tasty.


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RE: Goodbye pork chops - 9/21/2010 1:58:53 PM   
BoredAsHell


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i'm seriously looking into buying a side of beef for the winter. i moved to an area where there are plenty of beef farms so the prices are competative and the farmers earn alot of business on word of mouth and reputation. i'm looking into possibly getting a side of pork as well. i love having a nice big freezer! i can buy when the deals are good and freeze everything.

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RE: Goodbye pork chops - 9/21/2010 1:59:08 PM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BentUnit
Incidentally, the very best pork chops and roasts comes from a rare breed of pig known as the Berkshire.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkshire_%28pig%29
It's starting to come back into favor because of it's flavor and it's fat content (marbling) of the meat.
It's taken long enough for the consumer to realize that Fat = Flavor.


Fuck yeah.  I just put an acorn fed Berkshire boar in my freezer; this is the best pork ever.  I'm a little overloaded on leaf lard and fatback as he was a very big boy, so aspiring gourmets with an interest in same are invited to contact me.  I can also assist local folks in doing meat shares/carcass splits.


< Message edited by LadyNTrainer -- 9/21/2010 2:00:39 PM >


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RE: Goodbye pork chops - 9/21/2010 2:13:25 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


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Most local farmers will have meat butchered for their customers. Here in TX, and in NC, GA, and NY (the markets I'm most familiar with), animals can be purchased by quarters, halves, or whole, and the cuts can be designated when the animal goes to slaughter, including custom cuts.

Several of our local farmers here also routinely take animals to slaughter and have the meat prepared in the most commonly requested cuts so people without large freezers, single individuals, etc., can also get grass-fed/grass-finished meat. BTW... when shopping for grass-fed meat, make sure that the meat you buy is 'grass finished'. One of the latest scams is for the animal to be "on pasture" during the months when it is is still nursing (therefore not eating grass anyway) from a mother who is being fed grains, and then having it be shipped off to a feed-lot for its "final feed-to-weight"... for 150+ days of forced grain feeding. This is just REGULAR TREATMENT of the calves. The other 'sneaky' option is what is called "finishing long yearlings", where yearlings are left on pasture for the summer, then sent to the feed lots in the fall for up to 120 days of forced grain feeding prior to marketing.

The best way to get around this is to buy local. Get thee to a Farmer's Market and meet the farmers. Ask whether they send their animals to a feed-lot. Ask whether they get grain at any point in their growth cycle. Ask how long they take to get to a suitable "hoof weight" for sale (it typically takes 4.5-6 years to feed a steer (neutered) on grass to sale weight, compared to 3-4 years if grain-supplemented and feed-lot finished!).

For pork, it's a lot harder to find naturally-raised pork than it is grass-fed beef, even someplace like here, where we have wild boars. Raising pigs "on pasture" takes a LOT of land, because pigs don't graze, they're foragers. They need a diet that contains nuts, fungus (mushrooms), leaves, grass, roots, flowers, and fruit (both berries and non-citrus seed fruits). Pigs also increase their protein when they need to by supplementing with insects, amphibians, and sometimes even reptiles, but for the most part, when left alone and not fed by the hand of man, they tend to gravitate towards a "greens and nuts" diet. Pig feed (the pellets) are addictive, though, and a pig that is fed pellets will typically eschew its natural diet in favor of the commercial feed (sort of like people, huh? Give us a Big Mac and we'll completely bag healthy food).

Talk to your farmers. Find out how much 'supplemental' feeding their pigs get, and make sure that they're at least fed organic feed that is free of corn and soy. (Our local farmer supplements with a coconut-based feed that maintains the natural CLA production and keeps the O3/O6 balance in its natural state for the animals. I pay more for my pork than most folks around here would, but I know that the animals are raised humanely, encouraged to maintain as natural a diet as possible, and the meat produced is as healthy as it can be, given the limitations of land availability and time-to-market that most farmers are bound by).


Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 9/21/2010 2:19:13 PM >


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RE: Goodbye pork chops - 9/21/2010 2:21:17 PM   
mnottertail


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you can generally just throw pigs out in the swamp and they can get what they need out there, then in the fall, set up a pen and open one end, throw some corn in it........close it up, when they are in there pigging.

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RE: Goodbye pork chops - 9/21/2010 3:06:11 PM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
you can generally just throw pigs out in the swamp and they can get what they need out there, then in the fall, set up a pen and open one end, throw some corn in it........close it up, when they are in there pigging.


You can, but are you aware of the amount of damage feral and free roaming hogs do to native plant root systems and ecosystems in general?


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RE: Goodbye pork chops - 9/21/2010 8:39:32 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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Don't salt meat before cooking

The idea behind this one is that the salt will draw out juices from the meat, removing flavor and preventing the surface from browning properly. In theory salt can draw out moisture, but in the real world it does not seem to make any difference. I have salted meat before cooking innumerable times, including steaks for pan frying or grilling, roasts, and briskets headed for the smoker. I have never once seen any juice being drawn out by the salt. In addition, there are innumerable cooks ranging from at-home amateurs to professional chefs and cookbook authors - including the super-fussy people at Cooks Illustrated - who direct that salt be put on meat before cooking. It's impossible to believe that if the myth were true, all these people would be blind to the supposedly dire effects.http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=24080

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RE: Goodbye pork chops - 9/22/2010 6:11:52 AM   
Termyn8or


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It seems that salt interacts with the meat during cooking. While it draws out the moisture to some extent, that is apparently not the whole story. Actually regular table salt should not draw out as much moisture as real salt because of the anti-caking agent(s). I have not used regular table salt in years. You leave real salt in a bowl out in the summer you will have saltwater eventually.

Actually when I cook a steak, the salt of any kind doesn't have enough time to greatly affect the moisture content of the meat. This could be a whole different story for those who like their's well done.

Now considering the searing issue, for our resident chemists, what if salt is present and during the searing process it only greatly affects the surface of the meat ? I don't know how others sear meat, but I do it very quickly. Of course for others then it goes to a lower heat to be cooked through, but in the case of beef, mine is done.

I don't think that anyone is searing meat at the near 1,500F melting point of salt, so I assume it is disolving in whatever water may be present. However at high temperatures the solubility will be quite high and a saturated solution would be quite strong. This would support the supposition that it acts mainly in a very thin layer right at the suface, which partially reconciles the two schools of thought on the matter.

Now I wonder just how hot that infrared broiler really gets. Since it is overhead convection is not a major factor, the heat is almost totally radiant. But after it is preheated you can't put your hand anywhere in the oven for more than a few seconds, and if you get within a couple inches of it you will recieve a bad burn in seconds. And remember I put the meat closer than an inch from the yellow hot element. Actually that is why I insist that it be sufficiently preheated, because if not the grease spatter will contaminate the element, but once it's hot enough the grease actually evaporates before it can get there. In the case of ground meat, the meat is on fire in a matter of less than two seconds. I mean you don't even have time to take a sip out of your drink.

I just did a quick google on it and they are talking about "the motor". Well mine has no motor. It is strictly radiant, and built 16 years ago. I think what I found on the net is something different. I guess that's something I can do if I ever get bored, find a thermometer and actually measure the temperature. Or maybe, just maybe I can find the owner's manual. All I know is that it is hot as hell, maybe hotter :-)

T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 9/22/2010 6:14:35 AM >

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RE: Goodbye pork chops - 9/22/2010 6:21:40 AM   
BentUnit


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I always use cast iron and that sucker has to be smoking and "pinging" or the bars of the grill have to be pre-heated till smoking before meat goes anywhere near it.

I'm of the school of thought that meat gets seasoned after the cooking rather than before because of the whole "drawing moisture" issue.
I'm wanting to build a caramelized crust on the outside of the meat with the high temp.
I personally think salt counteracts that ideal.

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RE: Goodbye pork chops - 9/22/2010 6:24:54 AM   
mnottertail


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cast iron, smoking, salt after.........you get it, I'd fuck you.

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RE: Goodbye pork chops - 9/22/2010 6:42:11 AM   
BentUnit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

cast iron, smoking, salt after.........you get it, I'd fuck you.


Don't you tease me now!

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RE: Goodbye pork chops - 9/22/2010 6:43:54 AM   
mnottertail


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I'm serious as a juicy (and well done) grass fed ribeye steak, right from my farm.

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RE: Goodbye pork chops - 9/22/2010 6:48:47 AM   
BentUnit


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Oh dear!
You ruin a possible fantastic scene by over cooking your meat.
I have mine as they describe it in the industry as "Blue".
Smoking hot pan..slap it down for 60 to 120 secs.(depending on the thickness)
Pick it up, turn it and slap it down for another 60 to 120 secs.....place it on a warmed plate and give it to me.

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RE: Goodbye pork chops - 9/22/2010 6:51:13 AM   
mnottertail


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I can handle my meat honey, and so can you.

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