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RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/21/2010 9:45:40 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


The average annual operating cost per state inmate in 2001 was $22,650, or $62.05 per day; among facilities operated by the Federal Bureau of Prisons, it was $22,632 per inmate, or $62.01 per day.






Hell, that's nothing. The number I'm hearing thrown around is $50,000 a year in CA. And it supposedly costs 100 times that to execute them. I say, some things you just have to pay the price.

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RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/21/2010 10:06:01 PM   
DMFParadox


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Status: offline 		Housing 'sick' individuals who commit violent crimes at the taxpayer's expense seems unfair to their victims.

That is, if you trust the legal system to get the right sick individuals indicted. I don't. At all. Nor do I feel that our laws themselves are just and fair; there is too much of a scent of vengeful bullying for my taste.

I will say that they seem fairer than those legal systems that preceded ours. But nowhere close to true even-handedness.

Personally, I feel the convicts should have a choice. If I were facing life in prison, I might simply opt to get it over with. Alternatively, if I were wrongly convicted, I may instead opt to stay alive as long as possible to correct the injustice; or if I felt my cause was hopeless, I'd still want to do what I could to improve things for the next guy in my shoes.

The problem with such a choice is that it can be abused by the system. There are always ways to slide down that slippery slope... forcing felons to choose death or life, faking permission forms, etc....


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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/21/2010 10:32:55 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Julia, you did not answer the question, what would you have us do with these sick, violent individuals?


We lock them up...

What would you think I would say?

Perhaps if we let nonviolent drug dealers out, we would have more room for really bad people and we wouldn't ever have to parole a molester, a rapist, or a murderer.

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/21/2010 10:38:16 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

The average annual operating cost per state inmate in 2001 was $22,650, or $62.05 per day; among facilities operated by the Federal Bureau of Prisons, it was $22,632 per inmate, or $62.01 per day.


The cost of executing a criminal v housing them for life

http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=42

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RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/22/2010 12:04:34 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Mike, what i meant is that the current cases typically already include dna evidence.


Not all cases have DNA evidence....



I suggested that you research the Petit case. The two men beat the husband and left him for dead, raped and strangled the wife, then raped the 11 year old daughter, then tied the two daughters to their beds and set the house on fire. The two girls were still alive.

The police caught them coming out of the home.

Now, what would you do, put them in a crowded prison for life? Personally, I think they should be executed in the same way they killed the two girls, being burned alive.



JLF, those two fucking animals are pure Evil!
I think their trial comes up soon or it may be going on already?
Dr. Michael Savage was talking about that case last week. Unfortunately instead of going into the house he said the Police were busy "setting up a perimeter."
I still have that image burned into my head of that cop hiding behind a tree at Virginia Tech as you could hear gunfire going on inside the building.
If you're a Cop you need to be getting *inside* the building as quickly as you can. If the doors were chained hit them with a cruiser going 40 mph and they won't be chained anymore. The doors will swing "in" then!
Those two monsters should be fucking tortured in prison everyday.
And Connecticut should use the gas chamber on them and let them choke for 20 minutes.
I've never been in favor of that "injection" crap. Too easy.

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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/22/2010 12:07:35 AM   
jlf1961


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From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

We lock them up...

What would you think I would say?

Perhaps if we let nonviolent drug dealers out, we would have more room for really bad people and we wouldn't ever have to parole a molester, a rapist, or a murderer.




Now, as of 2010 the cost to house an inmate in the state of Texas is $17,337.5 which is below the national average. In California it costs $47,102 a year source.

Now the average cost of caring and housing an ELDERLY prisoner is $72,000 a year. That takes all geriatric care needed for a prisoner, and those costs are going up.

Now, if you take the the human average life span of 75.2 years, you could have a person in prison for 61 years (the youngest person sentenced to life in prison for murder was 14.)

Lets say the murderer is 26 years old at the time of conviction, so he is going to serve, using current life span figures, 49 years.

It is going to cost WITHOUT elderly care, $2,307,998 in California. Now say he has 34years at the standard of $47,102, so that is going to cost California $1,601,468 with the remainder of his incarceration costing $1,080,000 for a total of $2,681,468.

I could not find the cost of a murder trial for California, I expect it to cost more than Texas.

Now, the current cost of a capital murder trial asking for the death penalty, IF the state of Texas is covering all costs $1,200,000. That includes appeals up to the supreme court level (if the supreme court agrees to hear the case,) and the cost of housing the prisoner for 10.2 years from initial conviction to execution.

Now, using the numbers for California adjusted for the lesser costs in Texas, 34 years would cost $589,475 and the remaining 15 years would cost $399,600 for a total of $989,075, or $210,925 less than executing the same prisoner.

The problem with not executing a person convicted of Capital Murder (only type of murder case in Texas that gets the death penalty) is the fact that the individual gets a life of relative ease. He does not HAVE to work to earn his keep, he is given three meals a day he does not have to pay for, and free health care.

Now, explain why this individual deserves to live after he killed at least one individual? What makes this individual's life worth more than the life he/she took?



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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/22/2010 1:12:31 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
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Status: offline 		Murder is far worse than adultery in my opinion and I see no reason for the state to be involved in punishment for adultery. My opinion is divided regarding the death penalty for those convicted of murder. There are cases where inmates on death row have been freed by DNA evidence and obviously executing an innocent person is wrong. But I can also understand how the loved ones of a murder victim would want the killer to be punished. Is the death penalty a real deterent to violent crime or does it cause more violence because criminals want to remove any potential witnesses to their activities?



quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

I see a big difference in the 2 cases.  Obviously, some in Iran do not.  Having your husband and step son murdered is a lil bit worse than getting some strange ding dong, at least to me.

What cha think?



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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/22/2010 1:54:41 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I intentionally chose a site that presented both sides because I think that is fair.

The innocence project says that not all cases have DNA, so since they are the experts in these cases, I would take what they said as being accurate... they provided the other numbers after all.

You stated that you did not think that there were any death penalty cases without dna evidence, I found one specific one, and I found information that there are others. I also found information about states that do not provide defendants the right to dna evidence to exonerate themselves. All in all, the argument that dna is a panacea to the argument that the death penalty is just is a false argument based upon these facts alone.


You found one that was tried, and a conviction obtained, in 1989, for a man accused of killing a cop with nine witnesses.

Recall my post...


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Cant remember a recent death penalty conviction that didnt have dna evidence... but i could be wrong.


I still stand by that post. The Davis case is over 20 years old.

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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/22/2010 5:37:41 AM   
JstAnotherSub


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I think what caught my eye about the whole thing was the protest from Iran seemed to come from a place of "you whined about what we were going to do, so we are going to do the same to you".  I dont think he really gives a damn about us putting a murderer to death, he just wants to try to make the 2 cases about the same thing.  In my eyes, they are not just apples and oranges, they are apples and sushi.

I can understand the very strong feelings regarding the death penalty, as mine are strong, and I can think of nothing that will ever change my mind about them.  I was more curious about if people found this entire protest to be another way of calling the US evil, or if they agreed that the 2 cases were equal.

Has been good reading though, as I sip my coffee.

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RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/22/2010 5:53:51 AM   
Aynne88


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Second that...so now I will assume I can continue to hold the views I hold on Capitol punishment?


Third.

The death penalty has been proven time and time again to NOT be a deterrent in capital crimes, it has aready been shown by Julia to cost far more than incarceration, and it makes us a nation of barbarians, no better than the perpetrators of the crimes themselves.    

Gotta love a place that executes mentally handicapped people. .  This isn't the wild wild west and cowboy nation is over.  The asshole from Texas has left the building.

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/22/2010 6:05:58 AM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline 		Is any punishment a deterrant to crime though?  How many in prison are repeat offenders?

Whether you believe folks are born to be crininals, or they become crininals due to circumstances, the "it is not a deterrant" could be used for just about every crime.

Putting someone who has proven they are evil and capable of killing another human being, a human being they did not know, did not hate, did not have any reason to kill other than they wanted to, that is not a deterrant.  But it does assure that no other family will be destroyed when they get that hankering again.

Putting a chick to death who fucked around on her husband must seem to me as ridiculous as putting anyone to death seems to those of you against the death penalty.  I am good with the differing opinions, I just wasnt looking for a death penalty thread when I posted this.  I think the feelings we all have about the right or wrong of the death penalty make that impossible though, cause here I went and did it too!





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RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/22/2010 7:15:58 AM   
Owner59


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Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Diplomacy by assassination/torture/CIA-meddling is the very reason we have the clowns in charge in Iran.


Diplomacy by invasion has proven just as ineffective,thanks to bush and his brown-nose supporters.


I think the proper response to pres. akma-outa-my-minda-jod when he trolls is to ignore him.



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RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/22/2010 7:32:31 AM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

The average annual operating cost per state inmate in 2001 was $22,650, or $62.05 per day; among facilities operated by the Federal Bureau of Prisons, it was $22,632 per inmate, or $62.01 per day.


The cost of executing a criminal v housing them for life

http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=42


A rebuttal argument for these amounts.

http://homicidesurvivors.com/2010/03/21/death-penalty-cost-studies-saving-costs-over-lwop.aspx

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/22/2010 8:55:00 AM   
Zevar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I suggested that you research the Petit case. The two men beat the husband and left him for dead, raped and strangled the wife, then raped the 11 year old daughter, then tied the two daughters to their beds and set the house on fire. The two girls were still alive.

The police caught them coming out of the home.

Now, what would you do, put them in a crowded prison for life? Personally, I think they should be executed in the same way they killed the two girls, being burned alive.


Execute them!

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RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/22/2010 9:05:56 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		If you're taking the line that this is about vindictiveness rather rehabilition (which is a whole other argument, really), do you think the two tosspots in question are going to have a very good time in prison? A lot of the guys inside have families, after all, and the warders certainly do. It's quite possible they'd prefer a lethal injection themselves...

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RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/22/2010 9:18:35 AM   
DomYngBlk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I suggest that anyone against the death penalty look at the Petit Case


Old article but still holds today.........No way there should be a death penalty. http://www.nodeathpenalty.org/newab023/index.html

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/22/2010 9:23:55 AM   
JstAnotherSub


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Status: offline 		old article that shows why there should be a death penalty.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ga-supreme-court/1227468.html

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/22/2010 9:45:02 AM   
DomYngBlk


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Status: offline 		So you are fine with one innocent man being put to death?

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/22/2010 9:49:07 AM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline 		No, I am not fine with that.  We are living in an age with DNA and much more sophisticated investigation powers than 20 years ago.  There are cases, including the one I linked, where there is absolutely no douubt that the accused is guilty.

Once that is proven, beyond any shadow of a doubt, I think we should kill them.  Period.  They no longer have the right to steal our oxygen.

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/22/2010 9:55:18 AM   
DomYngBlk


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Status: offline 		Well if you thumb through the other link and cases those were "air tight" as well.

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Profile   Post #: 80
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