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RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/24/2010 8:35:27 AM   
Bella1965


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Well, if you are willing to forgo your rights to a trial by your peers, etc, if you are ever accused of a crime, then you can save the taxpayers and just execute yourself pretrial.
Since you are wanting to save the taxpayers money on due process, I say start with yourself!
Oooh, someone's granny panties are in a bunch this morning, lol. Tell you what, you go first. Better yet, just ignore me from now on since your sense of humor is obviously non-existent.


Stay safe, play nice & share your toys w/ others...





Bella

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RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/24/2010 8:38:23 AM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bella1965

G'morning all:



quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Well, if you are willing to forgo your rights to a trial by your peers, etc, if you are ever accused of a crime, then you can save the taxpayers and just execute yourself pretrial.
Since you are wanting to save the taxpayers money on due process, I say start with yourself!
Oooh, someone's granny panties are in a bunch this morning, lol. Tell you what, you go first. Better yet, just ignore me from now on since your sense of humor is obviously non-existent.


Stay safe, play nice & share your toys w/ others...





Bella
While Julia and I see this subject from totally opposite ends, I gotta say, I can think of no one who has a sense of humor regarding this subject.

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RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/24/2010 9:13:44 AM   
DomYngBlk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bella1965

G'morning all:



quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Well, if you are willing to forgo your rights to a trial by your peers, etc, if you are ever accused of a crime, then you can save the taxpayers and just execute yourself pretrial.
Since you are wanting to save the taxpayers money on due process, I say start with yourself!
Oooh, someone's granny panties are in a bunch this morning, lol. Tell you what, you go first. Better yet, just ignore me from now on since your sense of humor is obviously non-existent.


Stay safe, play nice & share your toys w/ others...





Bella


And Dom/Dommes shouldn't go run and hide. Boorish behavior I must say

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Profile   Post #: 163
RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/24/2010 10:07:27 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bella1965

G'morning all:



quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Well, if you are willing to forgo your rights to a trial by your peers, etc, if you are ever accused of a crime, then you can save the taxpayers and just execute yourself pretrial.
Since you are wanting to save the taxpayers money on due process, I say start with yourself!
Oooh, someone's granny panties are in a bunch this morning, lol. Tell you what, you go first. Better yet, just ignore me from now on since your sense of humor is obviously non-existent.


Stay safe, play nice & share your toys w/ others...





Bella


I don't joke about executing people, or the reasons why those people need to be executed.

If you want to ignore me for not enjoying genocide jokes, abortion jokes, and jokes about people dying from cancer... you can ignore me, but I won't be ignoring you, I don't block anyone

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RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/24/2010 10:11:26 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

But, once it is proven beyond any doubt (and we can do that now), why not shoot them in the head with a 25 cent bullet rather than have them checked by a doctor, and spend more on putting them to death than we would on many sick people who have not murdered someone.


So do they get an appeal? How many innocent people have been executed even after exhausting their appeals? How many mentally disabled people have been murdered by the state in places like Texas? How many people have been exonerated by DNA for you to say there is always enough reasonable doubt to put an end to executions?



_____________________________

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RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/24/2010 11:24:24 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		How many people have been murdered after a convicted murderer got out of jail?

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RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/24/2010 11:42:25 AM   
MstrPBK


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Status: offline 		Serious response: we may never know.

MstrPBK
St. Paul, MN USA

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RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/24/2010 11:44:12 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		If you know the answer, you should enlighten us...

My aunt was murdered when she was 18 in front of a dance club. Two men held her arms while a jealous woman stabbed her. The longest sentence was 7 years, which was given to the woman. This happened 3 years before my mother was born. She was the youngest of 11 kids. (this happened in Missouri)

In California you have to commit a murder with special circumstances to even be eligible for the death penalty. This means you have to commit a double homicide, or you have to commit a murder in the commission of another crime (home invasion being an example).

Where here did you see anyone advocating those commit first degree murder with special circumstances should ever be paroled?



_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/24/2010 12:11:57 PM   
jlf1961


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From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

If you know the answer, you should enlighten us...

My aunt was murdered when she was 18 in front of a dance club. Two men held her arms while a jealous woman stabbed her. The longest sentence was 7 years, which was given to the woman. This happened 3 years before my mother was born. She was the youngest of 11 kids. (this happened in Missouri)

In California you have to commit a murder with special circumstances to even be eligible for the death penalty. This means you have to commit a double homicide, or you have to commit a murder in the commission of another crime (home invasion being an example).

Where here did you see anyone advocating those commit first degree murder with special circumstances should ever be paroled?





56% of violent felons are repeat offenders and 61% of all felons are repeat offenders.

Recidivism for murder or for negligent manslaughter. had the lowest rates of recidivism. (42.1% and 42.5%, respectively).

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RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/24/2010 1:30:13 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		Soooooooo, if you make sure 100 convicted murderers never leave jail, statistically, you will save 42 innocent lives.

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RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/24/2010 2:44:14 PM   
jlf1961


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Soooooooo, if you make sure 100 convicted murderers never leave jail, statistically, you will save 42 innocent lives.



When this question was raised by Julia, I began doing some research on the subject. The average amount of time spent on death row is 10 years, with some having spent as much as 20 years on death row.

Violent criminals re-offend at a higher rate than non-violent criminals. Inmates who were victimized in prison are more likely to comment a crime against people (assault, rape, murder) than those who were not victimized.

Rapists: 43 percent were arrested for any type of crime within three years, compared with 68 percent for all other former inmates, and only 3% commit another rape.

However, that did not take into account serial rapists, and the fact that many rapes still go unreported, and of the rape cases that go to trial, there is only a 13% conviction rate.

The conviction rate for murder in the US is 61% with the majority of sentences being 25 to life, which of course means the person is eligible for parole in 25 years. In 2009 only 106 people were sentenced to death in capital murder cases. One study quotes an average of 1 death penalty conviction per 325 murder convictions.

There were 16,204 murders in the US in 2009.

This indicates that the death penalty is not sought for every murder, but only for the most extreme cases.

Currently, the death penalty case that has garnered the most coverage in the national media is the Petit home invasion/rape/murder case involving two suspects.

In some of the reports that I read both pro death penalty and against the death penalty, one of the main complaints was the amount of time the individual spent on death row. Those against the death penalty consider this to be cruel and unusual and those for the death penalty consider it to be unjustified.

The length of time on death row seems to be dependent on the appeals process, which can take years.

The information on the US prison population actually could use its own topic.

< Message edited by jlf1961 -- 9/24/2010 2:45:19 PM >

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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/24/2010 3:47:34 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

56% of violent felons are repeat offenders and 61% of all felons are repeat offenders.

Recidivism for murder or for negligent manslaughter. had the lowest rates of recidivism. (42.1% and 42.5%, respectively).


Since most of those who commit first degree murder never see the light of day (20 to life) and those who get the death penalty never see freedom again, I wonder what the above stats have to do with tazzy's assertion

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Profile   Post #: 172
RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/24/2010 4:17:10 PM   
jlf1961


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From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Julia, I cannot find a number for convicted murderers paroled when sentenced to 25 to life.

The problem is, how to tell which convicted murderers will re-offend? Unless the sentence is life without parole, convicted murderers who do not get the death penalty will be eligible for parole, then it is up to the parole board.

There was one study that I found on a pro death penalty site that stated 50% of convicted murderers had committed at least one murder prior to being caught, I find that hard to believe, except in the possibility of drug or gang related violent criminals.

I have found that each state has different criteria for applying the death penalty to murder cases, and as I pointed out, the seeking of the death penalty is rare, 1 in 325 at least as far as conviction rate.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

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Profile   Post #: 173
RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/24/2010 4:25:24 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		its bad business!

Why would they murder a con and only collect on the insurance when they can float the bonds for the term of the sentence, collect all that interest?  lol

The question is why do people always sidestep the profits made from someone being jailed and wall street filling up those cafr funds?

Is there that much crime in the US or that much profit in jailing?    Prison bonds can net upwards of 4 million bucks.  Backed by the full faith and credit of the US :)

just a sidenote food for thought


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RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/24/2010 4:26:09 PM   
peacefulplace


Posts: 157
Joined: 8/22/2010
Status: offline 		Getting back to the original post...

Anyone who seriously considers anything that the Holocaust denying, teenage homosexual hanging, secretly nuclear weapons gathering Ahmadinejad has to say is as crazy as he is. Stoning someone to death on (probably fabricated) charges of what amounts to nothing more than fucking around is in absolutely no way equitable to killing someone for planning a murder. Iran needs to shut its fat, human rights abusing mouth.

In his twisted mind, I am sure that Ahmadinejad equates stepping out on your husband with killing your husband, which shows how sick his senses of masculinity and masculine/ feminine honor are.

The question with this execution in VA is one of fairness, though, as all executions are. When was the last time someone of wealth was executed? How come women routinely serve longer sentences for crimes against men (often men who are, in turn, attempting to kill the women through constant abuse)? When was the last time a white person was executed for killing a black person? How about comparing the statistics to the answers to these sorts of questions?

If someone were attacking another person, much less someone I love, in front of me, would I use deadly force to stop that person if I thought it were warranted? Oh, absolutley!! However, judges, juries, prosecutors, defense attorneys all show up after the fact and then someone winds up on death row. It is too much like "state sanctioned murder," although I do not exactly think of it in those terms. I think, "Could I live with myself if I were the doctor who pumped those chemicals into the inmates' arms?" Regardless of what they have done, the answer is no. Harry Blackmun said it best: "I shall no longer tinker with the machinery of death." In the U.S., the death penalty works like a machine. We do not need more dehumanization in this country or this world.

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RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/24/2010 4:31:11 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Julia, I cannot find a number for convicted murderers paroled when sentenced to 25 to life.

The problem is, how to tell which convicted murderers will re-offend? Unless the sentence is life without parole, convicted murderers who do not get the death penalty will be eligible for parole, then it is up to the parole board.

There was one study that I found on a pro death penalty site that stated 50% of convicted murderers had committed at least one murder prior to being caught, I find that hard to believe, except in the possibility of drug or gang related violent criminals.

I have found that each state has different criteria for applying the death penalty to murder cases, and as I pointed out, the seeking of the death penalty is rare, 1 in 325 at least as far as conviction rate.


This is a debate about the death penalty... since people who do things bad enough to get put to death for them rarely if ever are free to reoffend, this entire turn of this thread is really irrelevant.... unless of course you are arguing that we should snuff all violent criminals.

_____________________________

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RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/24/2010 5:05:01 PM   
msreddragonflowr


Posts: 3
Joined: 3/11/2010
Status: offline 		Hello
I normally don't like arguing pros and cons of the death penalty however this forum struck a cord with Me. I know of someone who was just let out on parol after serving 25 years in prison for murder of a young man. The convict murdered his best friend and then set the business he was in on fire. The convict took not only the life of the families only son, but their business and caused the father to die of a heart attack. The convict did this over a girl. Now hes out because they say hes been changed. The family he did this to was not even notified the convict was out. Now they once again live in fear and are reminded again of all that pain many years ago.

What is the true purpose of jurors and judges setting life sentences to only be changed by a small board who hears only what the convict wants them to hear?

The same situation occurred a couple years ago and the convict in that situation was allowed parole. The convict had been sentenced to a term of 99 years for murdering a husband and father in a business. The convict served less than 25 years, and when the convict was out less than 3 months had stalked and killed the wife  and mother of another member of this same family. Justice, I think not!

There are many pros and cons for matters, and yes there is new technology to help free the innocent, but it should be used also to protect the innocent as well.

Thank You for the moment!
Ms. Reddragonflowr

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RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/24/2010 5:24:51 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Julia, with a 42% chance that a murderer will commit another murder, and be more likely to be tried in a death penalty case the second time, it makes one wonder about deterrence.

Anti death penalty advocates say the death penalty is not a deterrence to murder.

Then I challenge you to come up with an alternative.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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Profile   Post #: 178
RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/24/2010 5:46:32 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Julia, with a 42% chance that a murderer will commit another murder, and be more likely to be tried in a death penalty case the second time, it makes one wonder about deterrence.

Anti death penalty advocates say the death penalty is not a deterrence to murder.

Then I challenge you to come up with an alternative.


In other countries where there is no death penalty there is less violent crime, so why is this? What do they do about violent crime? What can we learn from such cultures?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Murder vs. Adultery - 9/24/2010 6:50:43 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		I really hate to tell you this, but the United States is fifth in the number of murders overall, and 24th in Murders (per capita) with a murder rate of 0.042802 per 1,000 people.

Another interesting tidbit:
quote:

Britain's violent crime record is worse than any other country in the European union, it has been revealed.

Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa - widely considered one of the world's most dangerous countries.

The figures comes on the day new Home Secretary Alan Johnson makes his first major speech on crime, promising to be tough on loutish behaviour. source


Britain does not have the death penalty.

Japan has the death penalty for multiple murderers and is 60th with a murder rate of 0.00499933 per 1,000 people.


_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 180
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