RE: Born Rich (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion



Message


DarkSteven -> RE: Born Rich (9/22/2010 7:42:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I want lower taxes for every one. We earned it. It's our money and the less that is confiscated the better off we will be.


I'll almost agree with that.  But it sounds too much like the standard GOP argument to me of focusing on the taxes.

I want government spending to decrease first.  THEN we'll talk about lowering taxes. It's simply too easy to pander to the low-taxes crowd and cut taxes while increasing spending, and balloon the deficit.




DomYngBlk -> RE: Born Rich (9/22/2010 11:37:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

~FR~

I kinda wish I'd been born rich, instead of CUTE.. with enough money, I coulda BOUGHT the cuteness LOL


I agree you are cute




DomYngBlk -> RE: Born Rich (9/22/2010 11:41:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I want lower taxes for every one. We earned it. It's our money and the less that is confiscated the better off we will be.


I'll almost agree with that.  But it sounds too much like the standard GOP argument to me of focusing on the taxes.

I want government spending to decrease first.  THEN we'll talk about lowering taxes. It's simply too easy to pander to the low-taxes crowd and cut taxes while increasing spending, and balloon the deficit.



Why not just do away with taxes entirely. Sounds like you don't think Gov't worthwhile anyway. That way we will have an ever expanding economy to infiniti and everyone will be happy in your right wing world. Right?




Archer -> RE: Born Rich (9/22/2010 12:25:32 PM)

So if I earn the money and pay taxes on the money, when I die the government should then tax out of existence whatever is left over of that money? They already taxed it once. This is a call to end the practice of parents working and saving to provide a better life for their children and grand children.

The difference is in scale. the concept remains is it right and fair that a person should take their earned money and pass it on to their children and grand children.









Moonhead -> RE: Born Rich (9/22/2010 12:36:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

So if I earn the money and pay taxes on the money, when I die the government should then tax out of existence whatever is left over of that money? They already taxed it once. This is a call to end the practice of parents working and saving to provide a better life for their children and grand children.

The difference is in scale. the concept remains is it right and fair that a person should take their earned money and pass it on to their children and grand children.


Has anybody argued against that? I think the issue here is that people who have done that are often paying a bigger tax bite than people who could buy Switzerland without selling a spare mansion or two. I'm dubious that a moderately successful medical specialist belongs in the same tax band as Donald Trump or Paris Hilton's daddy.




Archer -> RE: Born Rich (9/22/2010 12:47:31 PM)

Yes Moonhead the OP states clearly that estates should be taxed out of existence.

..."This is precisely why estates need to be taxed out of existenz. " The Hippiesocialistkinkster post 1

That is clearly arguing against it.

We have to determine if we are taxing income or wealth because estate taxes are about taxing wealth accumulated after they have already paid the taxes on that income.








Moonhead -> RE: Born Rich (9/22/2010 12:51:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Yes Moonhead the OP states clearly that estates should be taxed out of existence.

..."This is precisely why estates need to be taxed out of existenz. " The Hippiesocialistkinkster post 1

That is clearly arguing against it.

We have to determine if we are taxing income or wealth because estate taxes are about taxing wealth accumulated after they have already paid the taxes on that income.


Taxing wealth will gather a lot more revenue than taxing people who are struggling to keep their heads above water.
I wonder how much revenue a steep inheritance tax would actually generate? A shit load more than your government is managing to collect at the moment, I suspect. When income tax seems to be encouraging funds to trickle up rather than down, what else is left to try?




mnottertail -> RE: Born Rich (9/22/2010 12:52:49 PM)

the question is whether or not they have paid taxes on the estate or income. And that ain't so clear.




Archer -> RE: Born Rich (9/22/2010 1:21:23 PM)

I'm not against having an audit to determine if the law was followed if there is something that gives probable cause to suspect they have not paid the taxes due.

If you have that probable cause then by all means audit away and if they have not then apply taxes and penalties appropriately using the Rangle, Giehtner penalty chart.
LOL















mnottertail -> RE: Born Rich (9/22/2010 2:05:32 PM)

Well, we know there was a moratorium on estate and cap gains......so we need only seek the date of the big payola for most of em.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Born Rich (9/22/2010 2:50:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Okay, my disclaimer is that I didn't watch the link.  BUT:

1. There are people whose inherited wealth makes them not need to work.  Trust fund babies, if you will.
2. Some of them (think Paris Hilton) are wastes of humanity. 
3. You believe that their wasteliness is related to their lack of need to work.
4. Your solution is for the government to tax away their inherited wealth.

This assumes that the money is the government's to take.    Even the most pro-tax people will tell you that the purpose behind raising taxes is because the government needs the money for its various projects.  The radical concept that the government decides that you should not have the money scares hell out of me.  Even worse is that the government uses taxes to execute value judgements on its part.

The government is responsible for enforcing laws that define acceptable and unacceptable behavior.  Boorish, selfish behavior is not illegal, and is punished through social means like having one's friends driven away.  As it should be.

Tax policies have been used to drive desired behavior for years - for example, the mortgage deduction helps drive real estate.  But your proposal goes way beyond that and uses tax policy for social engineering - which also scares the hell out of me.


Well said except possibly the mortgage deduction phrasing. I wouldnt characterize it as "driving acceptable and unacceptable behavior" (combining your last two paragraphs, though may not have been your meaning). Consumer spending drives our economy, and home ownerhsip drives consumer spending on manufactured durable goods. So it isnt as much "social engineering" as it is "fiscal engineering".

Ultimately an estate tax, like any other tax, reduces the incentive to invest. If some large percentage of your assets is going to be confiscated by the government when you die, rather than being passed on to your heirs, then youre not going to take certain risks to earn more.




mnottertail -> RE: Born Rich (9/22/2010 3:27:11 PM)

or, you will spend it...............




DarkSteven -> RE: Born Rich (9/22/2010 5:18:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Why not just do away with taxes entirely. Sounds like you don't think Gov't worthwhile anyway. That way we will have an ever expanding economy to infiniti and everyone will be happy in your right wing world. Right?


I am not a right winger, and have never portrayed myself as such.

Frankly, at this point, I feel like we do have enough government.  I would love to see it quit growing.  Here in Colorado, TABOR is a mechanism to prevent state government from growing.  It baselines state spending at the current level, indexed for population change and inflation.  That seems to me to be eminently reasonable.  It does not prevent new programs but mandates that new programs must be paid for by redirecting funds from existing programs.  Kinda like a household that decides to buy a bigger house and must figure out where the money for it will come from.




THELADY -> RE: Born Rich (9/22/2010 8:38:00 PM)

why stop at taking the money they earned? why not the house, the car, the camper. forget the concept of owning, it all is an illusion, the government will just let u earn it and anything u save and don't spend can be given to them. after all u can't take it with u and ur kids didn't earn it, so the govt should not get it so they can give it to some other people who didn't earn it.. makes sense to me!

what I am doubious of is a rich pol who inherited his.wealth, leaves his manison by lemo, is driven to his private jet, flies around the world and tells us we need to live in smaller places, drive smaller cars and make smaller carbon footprints. and if we must do something that produces carbon we can buy carbon credits from his company. wonder where he would be today if the government had taken his daddys money......making stupid videos? rotflmao!!




rulemylife -> RE: Born Rich (9/22/2010 8:44:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: THELADY

why stop at taking the money they earned? why not the house, the car, the camper. forget the concept of owning, it all is an illusion, the government will just let u earn it and anything u save and don't spend can be given to them. after all u can't take it with u and ur kids didn't earn it, so the govt should not get it so they can give it to some other people who didn't earn it.. makes sense to me!

what I am doubious of is a rich pol who inherited his.wealth, leaves his manison by lemo, is driven to his private jet, flies around the world and tells us we need to live in smaller places, drive smaller cars and make smaller carbon footprints. and if we must do something that produces carbon we can buy carbon credits from his company. wonder where he would be today if the government had taken his daddys money......making stupid videos? rotflmao!!


What's a lemo?




pogo4pres -> RE: Born Rich (9/22/2010 9:59:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: THELADY

why stop at taking the money they earned? why not the house, the car, the camper. forget the concept of owning, it all is an illusion, the government will just let u earn it and anything u save and don't spend can be given to them. after all u can't take it with u and ur kids didn't earn it, so the govt should not get it so they can give it to some other people who didn't earn it.. makes sense to me!

what I am doubious of is a rich pol who inherited his.wealth, leaves his manison by lemo, is driven to his private jet, flies around the world and tells us we need to live in smaller places, drive smaller cars and make smaller carbon footprints. and if we must do something that produces carbon we can buy carbon credits from his company. wonder where he would be today if the government had taken his daddys money......making stupid videos? rotflmao!!


What's a lemo?





A limo that is a lemon??


Laughingly,
Some Knucklehead in NJ





Hippiekinkster -> RE: Born Rich (9/22/2010 11:04:42 PM)

The rationaile, which I fully agree with, for estate taxes is that it prevents precisely the sort of hereditary oligarchic aristocracy which the US now suffers from.

Rightards branded them "death taxes" and invented myths about Maw and Paw Kettle losing the family farm which was, and is, a complete lie. Taxing high-net-worth estates prevents the purchase of politicians with large sums of money filtered through 527 organizations. Google Richard Mellon Scaife. The Koch bros. The Wyly bros. They buy right-wing politicians primarily to maintain their aristocracy. They find "think tanks" like the Heritage Foundation and the Cato institute, which produce highly subjective "policy papers" and other pseudo-authoritative propaganda so as to influence politicians and the "conservative" public.

I am truly baffled by the phenomenon of right-wing truck drivers/stock clerks/office managers, and so on, who rabidly support the "divine right" of the American Aristocracy to "tax" them in the form of lowering their wages by Union-busting, off-shoring, and "cost-cutting"; by slowly but surely reducing their health care benefits; by obtaining obscene amounts of Federal welfare in the form of subsidies for the companies owned by the rich (which includes the biggest welfare rip-off of all, the military); by jacking up the interest rates and fees the rich-owned companies take from people every day; by forcing workers to accept fewer hours so they can avoid paying overtime; by extorting tax and other concessions from municipalities by threatening to relocate their stores and pjants outside of city limits; and any number of other tricks which guarantee "trickle up" capitalism.

Back in the 50s and 60s, when unions were strong, people could support a family with only one wage-earner. Now both partners muct work, and often the older offspring have to bring in a little cash as well, to pay for the goods and services whose costs exceed the growth of their income. Some moronic foil-hat fool on Yay-hoo was pissing and moaning about the 19% increase in Health insurance premiums he's seen under Obama. My premiums have gone up an average of 24% per annum, and that's with gradualling increasing my deductible, which is now $10K. "Regulation bad", the bobbleheads babble. "Too many regulations! Unfettered Capitalismo better than sliced bread!" So when gasoline goes up to $3.50 a gallon, from $1.50, they scream "where's the government?" Or they blame Obama, when, in fact, prices peaked just before the 2008 elections, under Warmonger George.

The dumb bastard rightards whine about the taxes they pay (some of the lowest of any industrialized nation) while they bend over, AND supply the Crisco, to get fist-fucked by the Private Sector.

The majority are way beyond cognitive dissonance - they're deep into cognitive destruction territory. It's like most of the white, adolt male population of the US got some subliminal message from Rush and Faux News to Trepan themselves so they immediately ran out and bought door-lock drill bits.




DomYngBlk -> RE: Born Rich (9/23/2010 6:01:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Why not just do away with taxes entirely. Sounds like you don't think Gov't worthwhile anyway. That way we will have an ever expanding economy to infiniti and everyone will be happy in your right wing world. Right?


I am not a right winger, and have never portrayed myself as such.

Frankly, at this point, I feel like we do have enough government.  I would love to see it quit growing.  Here in Colorado, TABOR is a mechanism to prevent state government from growing.  It baselines state spending at the current level, indexed for population change and inflation.  That seems to me to be eminently reasonable.  It does not prevent new programs but mandates that new programs must be paid for by redirecting funds from existing programs.  Kinda like a household that decides to buy a bigger house and must figure out where the money for it will come from.



You just proved my point. Just abolish all taxes and gov't so that we can all live out our dreams in the way we want to. Right? That way you won't have to worry if your local school district is spending an extra 10 dollars on someone else's child.

If your viewpoint isn't right wing what would you call it?




Moonhead -> RE: Born Rich (9/23/2010 6:18:21 AM)

Just out of interest, do any of the "taxation? Nein, danke!" types on this thread have any idea how much revenue a 1% estates tax limited to those worth over ten million would raise a year?




Silence8 -> RE: Born Rich (9/23/2010 7:15:57 PM)

I wonder if the adage that wealth doesn't last x generations holds (or still holds).

As usual, we got a number of chumps defending the top 1%. Why? If nothing else, whatever happened to that all-too-human sense of an easy score?

Forget about the immorality and injustice implicit in these fartbags' mere existence. This is pure economics, 'just business' -- 'readjust' these bloated octopus vampires, and every American is looking at something like an extra 10-20% spending power each year. Isn't that... if nothing else... tempting?

Plus, afterward, you can bring out of the closet your favorite moralistic tall hat.




Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875