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8 Immediate Cost Benefits of Health Care Reform - 9/25/2010 9:48:10 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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This is a question for those who want the health care legislation repealed.

Can you please explain to me why any of the listed items are a bad thing?

8 Immediate Cost Benefits of Health Care Reform

Under the new law, health care insurers will no longer be able to do the following:

Deny coverage to children with pre-existing conditions

Impose lifetime limits or caps on health coverage

Cancel a policy without proving fraud

Deny health claims without giving you a chance to appeal the decision

Free preventative health services

Young adults can stay on parent's plan until age 26

Choose a primary care doctor and pediatrician

Use the nearest emergency room without penalty

Post #: 1

RE: 8 Immediate Cost Benefits of Health Care Reform - 9/25/2010 10:28:35 AM

Fellow

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As the health care premiums go up for everybody, it is not obvious who benefits. There are no free services.

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 2

RE: 8 Immediate Cost Benefits of Health Care Reform - 9/25/2010 2:12:28 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

This is a question for those who want the health care legislation repealed.

Can you please explain to me why any of the listed items are a bad thing?

8 Immediate Cost Benefits of Health Care Reform

Under the new law, health care insurers will no longer be able to do the following:

Deny coverage to children with pre-existing conditions

you have the provision wrong. They cannot exclude pre-existing conditions from policies they issue. Result: They stopped issuing the policies altogether in several states.

Impose lifetime limits or caps on health coverage

so you think it makes sense to spend 10s of millions to prolong a life a month? millions to prolong a life a week? if you wrote the check for someones terminal care and understood the cost, you wouldnt support no limits either. The ultimate result MUST be denying coverages because of cost, like the FDA delisting a proven effective cancer treatment that was already being paid for by insurance companies because they dont want to bear the cost when we ultimately wind up with single payer.

Cancel a policy without proving fraud

I assume you also mean while premiums are being paid. Policies arent cancelled under those conditions now, and if they are the insured can sue for the coverage and damages.

Deny health claims without giving you a chance to appeal the decision

also doesnt happen

Free preventative health services

broad based PH doesnt work. Targeted PH are lifestyle choices that the individual should bear for themselves.

Young adults can stay on parent's plan until age 26

why 26? why not 36? 56? At some point children are responsible for themselves. 26 is far beyond that age.

Choose a primary care doctor and pediatrician

already can and do

Use the nearest emergency room without penalty

what penalty?

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Post #: 3

RE: 8 Immediate Cost Benefits of Health Care Reform - 9/25/2010 2:37:13 PM

Termyn8or

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FR

I think wilbeur summed it up pretty well.

What I am having touble grasping is how any of this costs the taxpayer money. Or are they talking about lobbyist money ?

T

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 4

RE: 8 Immediate Cost Benefits of Health Care Reform - 9/25/2010 2:41:33 PM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

I think wilbeur summed it up pretty well.

What I am having touble grasping is how any of this costs the taxpayer money. Or are they talking about lobbyist money ?

T

Its costing anyone who buys insurance increases from 10-15% higher than they would have paid absent O-care. Virtually all of them are taxpayers at the corporate, individual or both levels.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 5

RE: 8 Immediate Cost Benefits of Health Care Reform - 9/25/2010 2:54:53 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

As the health care premiums go up for everybody

Depending on what they have now and where they live, some will see higher rates, some will see lower rates.

Under the "do nothing" system, health care premiums were climbing at double digit rates.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 9/25/2010 2:55:46 PM >

(in reply to Fellow)

Post #: 6

RE: 8 Immediate Cost Benefits of Health Care Reform - 9/25/2010 3:14:29 PM

cadenas

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Unfortunately, these benefits are way oversold. They are really non-existent because the health insurance companies can simply jack up the rates to compensate. And they aren't shy about it. The premium for Guamanian workers (just the employee share alone) is set to rise by $3000/year. Nationwide, the premiums are expected to rise between 9-12%.

They can't deny coverage to children with preexisting conditions, but they can jack up your rates until you can't afford the coverage any more.

They can't impose lifetime limits any more, but they can still rescind your policy. Or jack up the rates.

They can't cancel a policy without fraud - but even under the old law, they already had to do that (and most states already implemented the same rule anyway). And of course they can also simply jack up the premiums until you are bankrupt.

The other items are really were just minor tweaks anyway. And provide more excuses to jack up the rates.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

This is a question for those who want the health care legislation repealed.

Can you please explain to me why any of the listed items are a bad thing?

8 Immediate Cost Benefits of Health Care Reform

Under the new law, health care insurers will no longer be able to do the following:

Deny coverage to children with pre-existing conditions

Impose lifetime limits or caps on health coverage

Cancel a policy without proving fraud

Deny health claims without giving you a chance to appeal the decision

Free preventative health services

Young adults can stay on parent's plan until age 26

Choose a primary care doctor and pediatrician

Use the nearest emergency room without penalty

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 7

RE: 8 Immediate Cost Benefits of Health Care Reform - 9/25/2010 3:28:38 PM

subrob1967

Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
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In Indiana, like cadenas already said, it's illegal for insurance companies to drop a client without fraud, in fact, life insurance companies have to pay out for suicides, providing the deceased maintained his or her policy for 18 months.

No one mentioned that everyone has to pay for 4 long years before the benefits kick in...Maybe you don't mind paying in advance for services you may need in 4 years, but I sure as hell don't.

(in reply to cadenas)

Post #: 8

RE: 8 Immediate Cost Benefits of Health Care Reform - 9/25/2010 3:51:26 PM

rulemylife

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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

As the health care premiums go up for everybody, it is not obvious who benefits. There are no free services.

My health care premiums have more than doubled in the last five years though I am healthy and the only claim I have made in that time period was for a minor accident.

(in reply to Fellow)

Post #: 9

RE: 8 Immediate Cost Benefits of Health Care Reform - 9/25/2010 4:31:28 PM

joether

Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow
As the health care premiums go up for everybody, it is not obvious who benefits. There are no free services.

My health care premiums have more than doubled in the last five years though I am healthy and the only claim I have made in that time period was for a minor accident.

I got Mass Health, so I have both of you beat! Its not without its problems, but compared to private insurance, that I've had over the years, its exceedingly better. They have much to lose by not treating the medical issue. Insurance companies these days, are 'ok', with treating a longer term medical issue, by extending it. You pay them more money, and it reflects well on the balance sheet. They do have to pay their CEO's too! Should check how much your CEO, of your health insurance makes in a year; your paying for his golf club membership!

And if you have a problem, who can you talk to in the company, to get it reolved? Certainly no one of importance, your a relatively-nobody to them. Even sueing them, simply brings out their army of lawyers to nickle & dime you to death. With Mass Health, if I had a real problem, that wasn't be addressed. I just go to my representative. You know? The one that is elected BY THE PEOPLE? I explain the matter, and work with them to resolve the issue. Keeps the issue out of the courts, I and the insurance each get what we want.

I recall the cost for Mass Health from a year ago. It was like 0.02% of the total Massachusett's budget. Even I was thinking the math was incorrect, so I checked. Turns out, the numbers are solid. The amount Mass residents pay for Mass Health (and private insurance) to cover all 99% of residents, is 0.02% of the total budget.

What I see with conservatives, is very little, real arguements. The ones I see, stem from those with very little compassion towards their fellow citizen. Not surprisingly, the Republican Party encourages this selfish attitude, and many who are seflish, gravitate towards the organization. Should it surprise anyone, even on these boards, the individuals more likely to help out their fellow citizen on health issues, tend to fall in one of three categories:

A) A person suffering through, or have suffered through, a deep health issue. Cancer, AIDS, other major diseases, injuries, disability, substance abuse, mental health.

B) Care givers to group A, above. Whether they are parents, silbings, social workers, or relatives.

C) The medical community who believe, treating humanity to be worthy challenge to succeed at. And not, a 'for profit venture'. The sort whom give alittle bit more attention, or work just alittle harder to achieve something good for the patient.

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 10

RE: 8 Immediate Cost Benefits of Health Care Reform - 9/25/2010 4:56:21 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Impose lifetime limits or caps on health coverage

so you think it makes sense to spend 10s of millions to prolong a life a month? millions to prolong a life a week? if you wrote the check for someones terminal care and understood the cost, you wouldnt support no limits either. The ultimate result MUST be denying coverages because of cost, like the FDA delisting a proven effective cancer treatment that was already being paid for by insurance companies because they dont want to bear the cost when we ultimately wind up with single payer.

Bullshit.

My old policy had a $1 million lifetime limit. I need dialysis 3 times a week, each one bills for $1500. That's $234,000 a year just for dialysis. I've seen the nephrologist every month since March, only $250 per office visit another $1750 total, plus blood and urine tests before each visit, cost varies based upon which tests low was $80 the high was $600 total is just over 1200. My meds are just over $1k per month.

So I would have hit the lifetime limit in about 4 years, assuming prices stayed put. I'm told you can live indefinitely on dialysis.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 11

RE: 8 Immediate Cost Benefits of Health Care Reform - 9/25/2010 5:36:53 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Impose lifetime limits or caps on health coverage

so you think it makes sense to spend 10s of millions to prolong a life a month? millions to prolong a life a week? if you wrote the check for someones terminal care and understood the cost, you wouldnt support no limits either. The ultimate result MUST be denying coverages because of cost, like the FDA delisting a proven effective cancer treatment that was already being paid for by insurance companies because they dont want to bear the cost when we ultimately wind up with single payer.

Bullshit.

My old policy had a $1 million lifetime limit. I need dialysis 3 times a week, each one bills for $1500. That's $234,000 a year just for dialysis. I've seen the nephrologist every month since March, only $250 per office visit another $1750 total, plus blood and urine tests before each visit, cost varies based upon which tests low was $80 the high was $600 total is just over 1200. My meds are just over $1k per month.

So I would have hit the lifetime limit in about 4 years, assuming prices stayed put. I'm told you can live indefinitely on dialysis.

So what in your excerpt of mine is bullshit? You had a policy with a 1 million cap, you were smart enough to find a policy with a higher cap. My company's cap is $3 million, and resets after the end of an illness. You don't think taxpayers should subsidize higher limits?

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 12

RE: 8 Immediate Cost Benefits of Health Care Reform - 9/25/2010 6:13:26 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

I can't find a policy with a higher cap. I'm uninsurable. I have to go on Medicaid, which means quitting my job and applying for disability.

The point was that lifetime caps aren't just ways to prevent expending ridiculous sums to keep a person alive an extra week.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 9/25/2010 6:15:03 PM >

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 13

RE: 8 Immediate Cost Benefits of Health Care Reform - 9/25/2010 7:08:00 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

As the health care premiums go up for everybody, it is not obvious who benefits. There are no free services.

My health care premiums have more than doubled in the last five years though I am healthy and the only claim I have made in that time period was for a minor accident.

Mine have gone up an average of 24% per year over the last 5 years, and that is with me going from a 5K to a 10K deductible (what Refucklinazis call "choice").
Pigfuckers.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

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(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 14

RE: 8 Immediate Cost Benefits of Health Care Reform - 9/25/2010 8:31:45 PM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Its costing anyone who buys insurance increases from 10-15% higher than they would have paid absent O-care. Virtually all of them are taxpayers at the corporate, individual or both levels.

Post some facts to back that.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 15

RE: 8 Immediate Cost Benefits of Health Care Reform - 9/25/2010 8:40:50 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Its costing anyone who buys insurance increases from 10-15% higher than they would have paid absent O-care. Virtually all of them are taxpayers at the corporate, individual or both levels.

Post some facts to back that.

We get weekly quotes from every major insurer on the West Coast, since one arm of our company negotiates health care programs for some of the largest employers in the country, primarily the West Coast. Prior to O-care kicking in rate increases were 8-9%. As soon programs were being negotiated for post September 1 renewals the jumped to 20-25%.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 16

RE: 8 Immediate Cost Benefits of Health Care Reform - 9/25/2010 8:49:59 PM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

In Indiana, like cadenas already said, it's illegal for insurance companies to drop a client without fraud, in fact, life insurance companies have to pay out for suicides, providing the deceased maintained his or her policy for 18 months.on't.

Insurance companies, just like mommies and daddies. You guys are so lucky to have those mom and pop shops lookin' after yas.
Makes the heart melt, really does.

You FUCKING IDIOTS :-D.

_____________________________

(in reply to subrob1967)

Post #: 17

RE: 8 Immediate Cost Benefits of Health Care Reform - 9/25/2010 9:16:06 PM

tazzygirl

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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

broad based PH doesnt work. Targeted PH are lifestyle choices that the individual should bear for themselves.

Targeted by whom? You have a strange definition for preventative health care. How about defining it as you believe it should be.

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(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

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RE: 8 Immediate Cost Benefits of Health Care Reform - 9/26/2010 7:43:04 AM

Termyn8or

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FR

This whole debacle does nothing to solve the real problem. The problem is cost.

Take the case of normal business as it used to be : For example a machine shop, there used to be lots of them. Now those machines exist 24/7 and those who made it in the business had them operating 24/7. Hired on all three shifts. Amortized the costs quickly without price gouging.

Then we have Henry Ford. Pig iron and other metal go in one end and cars drive out the other. He made the whole process more efficient. He did not gouge, in fact paid very high wages.

Flash forward to the last couple of decades. Now we have advanced since those times, using slave labor for every task, the suits are really raking it in. Build some plasma TVs. Hmm, dammit, need copper, plastic, phosphrous, silver, nickel, all kinds of shit that costs money. The solution was simple. Control the costs of all those materials. Simply put, get a lower standard of living for all those who produce those necessities and watch the bottom line plummet favorably. Mined by what we would consider slave labor, every element needed for the manufacturing's costs have been artificially suppressed by these tactics. All they needed was for the legal environment to change. So like anyone with the guile and resources they focussed on that, and every dime of lobbying money was well spent.

So why not do something similar in the medical industry. Well surprise surprise folks, THEY DID ! However having the unique position to hold your very life in their hands they felt no need to pass on these huge savings. Everyone gets a cut. That dialasys machine, inside there are transistors. They cost just pennies to produce even the most reliable medical grade or mil-spec part, yet it might cost hundreds of dollars. While nonestructive testing is good enough for your toys and games, even destructive testing does not result in costs that high. Someone is making a fortune there. Then comes the assembly procedure, which becomes more automated every product cycle. Costs go down, yet prices go up. The reason is because the ethic is to charge as much as the market will bear.

Now we have such a coopertion going on that gouging vendors are supplying tax deductions for the buyers of such equipment, who are also gouging.

And guess who pays for it all.

(this is only one crude example)

T

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 19

RE: 8 Immediate Cost Benefits of Health Care Reform - 9/26/2010 10:11:58 PM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Impose lifetime limits or caps on health coverage

so you think it makes sense to spend 10s of millions to prolong a life a month? millions to prolong a life a week? if you wrote the check for someones terminal care and understood the cost, you wouldnt support no limits either. The ultimate result MUST be denying coverages because of cost, like the FDA delisting a proven effective cancer treatment that was already being paid for by insurance companies because they dont want to bear the cost when we ultimately

The death panels will take care of that. Seriously.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 20

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