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RE: How much is a life worth? - 9/27/2010 5:27:13 PM

jlf1961

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The free market approach to health care led us to a point where there were millions who COULD NOT AFFORD health care.

So, under your argument, those that cant afford health care should not have health care, their lives are worth less than those who can afford health care, right?

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RE: How much is a life worth? - 9/27/2010 5:53:00 PM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

The free market approach to health care led us to a point where there were millions who COULD NOT AFFORD health care.

So, under your argument, those that cant afford health care should not have health care, their lives are worth less than those who can afford health care, right?

There has never been a free market in health care ( at least for the last 100 years or so). And Ive already said, life and health care are not the same thing, so trying to conflate affordability of health care with "life" is BS.

What is a life worth? "All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be." It has no intrinsic value beyond whatever you can get for the carbon.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 9/27/2010 5:59:20 PM >

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RE: How much is a life worth? - 9/27/2010 6:06:21 PM

Lucylastic

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I just had a vision of a vulcan dalek just then, well its different than the pudgy bumble bee outfit

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RE: How much is a life worth? - 9/27/2010 6:45:17 PM

samboct

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"Yes, a vastly different entity. The individual interacting with a free market."

Anyone who's ever had an argument with an insurance company knows that it doesn't work. Insurance companies weasel about paying off on car dorks never mind the much larger numbers when you're sick. And when you're sick- you don't have the stamina to fight them and they know it. They blizzard you with paperwork. The current free market has a number of health insurance companies that pay less than 80% back on their collected premiums- some are barely over 50%. There is always going to be a terrific incentive to steal from the customer- especially an elderly individual with no other resources. Who's going to catch them at it? And if you've paid premiums for 20 years to a company that you find is dishonest- then what?

Good business is pay as you go. The standard business model of 50% up front, and 50% on delivery works well. The problem is that insurance doesn't work that way- they want 100% up front. At which point, you have no options when they decide to jerk the rug out from under you.

Sorry- private health insurance has been a disaster the way it's been implemented to date. It's brought us to ridiculous costs and lousy health care. Going further down that path is just a bigger pile up.

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RE: How much is a life worth? - 9/27/2010 9:47:36 PM

AnimusRex

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
You get what you pay for. No reason health care should be any different than any other commodity.

If you can't afford healthcare, you don't deserve to live.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Republican Party's entire ethos, in one simple sentence.

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RE: How much is a life worth? - 9/27/2010 10:53:48 PM

DarkSteven

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When I did risk assessments, we needed to put a value on a life, and we would use $1 mil to $5 mil.

Damn, life must be nice for retired CFOs. I've never had a health care policy that would pay anything close to $93K.

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RE: How much is a life worth? - 9/28/2010 1:48:06 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Insurance companies do not refuse to pay for anything their contracts specify will be paid for, and should not be expected to.

Bullshit.

Not only did my insurance carrier drop my whole company to avoid paying for my treatments, after almost 6 years of paying premiums, they are now challenging a bunch of my bills.

The policy is quite clear that it covers what I submitted but here I am staring at a letter stating that they are not paying while they "review" my case.

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RE: How much is a life worth? - 9/28/2010 4:02:30 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

There is no problem whatsoever in treating health care as a commodity..if thats what you meant. If you actually did mean "defining" it as a commodity there is still no problem. Poof...its a commodity.

I cant agree with this. It seems to me those asking for less government involvement in services, want to cherry pick what services are or aren`t included. You cant have it both ways, either everyone operates as an individual or no one does.

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RE: How much is a life worth? - 9/28/2010 4:02:39 AM

Cy83r

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We're not a democracy, we're a democratically-elected representative republic (yeah, it's a mouthful), I don't know why we all want to spread peace and democracy into the world.

Full-on democracy is a type of mob rule you have yet to see, even though it certainly feels like mob rule now.

As for potentially life-extending medical care, it's a crap-shoot for the consumer. First, everything the saves your life from a fatal situation is going to be excessively costly, because saving a life is pretty hard, but the medical a scientific communities have been doing a fine job beating back the reaper in the long-term. Second, this is a capitalist society and hospitals and treatment centers are no exception to the bottom line; in fact, I would argue that hospitals are the only businesses that actually have to worry about the bottom line, other companies can jack up their prices and make a tidy profit on a pittance of an investment, but medicine is never keep and never a guarantee. Third, there is competition, the patient must be a good consumer and play the various hospitals against each other to find the best treatment or experimental trial available and hope he can squeeze on the list to get treated in time.

It's just rumors I constantly hear from my republican family, but there are several "hidden" treatments on the market that you won't be told of unless you pump your doctor for information and make him feel guilty and beneficient enough to betray his place of work to try and help save a patient's life.

Health is a market, shop comparatively like you would any other expensive item, they don't owe you any courtesies or absolute truths.

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RE: How much is a life worth? - 9/28/2010 4:08:36 AM

Lucylastic

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Are you related to Wilbur?

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RE: How much is a life worth? - 9/28/2010 6:28:21 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Insurance companies do not refuse to pay for anything their contracts specify will be paid for, and should not be expected to.

Oh, give me a break!

Insurance company documents are written to be deliberately vague, lengthy, and confusing.

I just pulled out my benefit guide and it is 75 pages in small print.

How many people actually read through it all and how many people actually understand it?

When I first took out my policy I literally spent hours on the phone with my agent and with the insurance company representatives and I still have certain questions about my coverage that were never satisfactorily answered.

quote:

The difference between primary education or police and fire services vs health care is the freeloader problem. There are societal benefits to those services that everyone should be expected to share in the cost of. Health is the individual's problem, not societies problem. Life is not a commodity, health is.

Why is the police department investigating a theft of my personal property a societal benefit but a doctor treating my broken arm is not?

Why is the fire department saving my house a societal benefit?

Who else benefits from that but me?

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 9/28/2010 6:30:26 AM >

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