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RE: Someone explain to me how anyone can vote in opposi... - 9/30/2010 10:24:50 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

no, what are you saying, you are as ignorant as any neo-con?  Don't pull that so what are you saying shit on me.......

I say what I say, and don't need anyone to revise and extend, or interpret my remarks to their own ends.


I'm not really sure why you were offended by that.

All I was doing was giving you my interpretation of what you said.

And I don't think I revised or extended anything, so if I misinterpreted just explain what you meant.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Someone explain to me how anyone can vote in opposi... - 9/30/2010 10:42:16 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Rule I said this..."I am all for those who have suffered injury and loss because of the 9/11 receiving medical care but only if a direct result of the attack." in post 12

I said this..."free health care to all who worked on the clean up even if their illness was not related to the disaster could be considered a political ploy or wasteful" in post 5

So where in the hell do you come off saying I don't give a shit about these people... read damnit.

Butch


How do you determine what caused an illness?

Though I think that someone in good health who suddenly develops a catastrophic illness at a young age after having worked at ground zero is pretty good evidence.

Especially when numerous others have developed the same problems.

I don't believe I said you didn't care, but I do wonder what you think deserves the highest priority.

This is a relatively paltry amount of money we are talking about considering the amount of money spent on the wars we initiated because of 9/11. 

So my question still stands, why would anyone be opposed to this other than for ideological and partisan reasons?






< Message edited by rulemylife -- 9/30/2010 10:49:26 AM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Someone explain to me how anyone can vote in opposi... - 9/30/2010 11:46:01 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Illness of this type can be easily diagnosed...and there is a settlement but this is not my point and has not been all along. This is not fair to all affected by the disaster and certainly not fair to those men and women doing the same jobs throughout the US.

This is being used as a political ploy by both sides rather than on its merits.

Why not expand the plan to include all emergency responders? Why not expand it to include those New Yorkers, not emergency responders, that were affected by the disaster there are a lot more of them.

Why half ass coverage when it should be for all not just a few.

Now if the needs of those emergency responders that are affected by the disaster are being ignored I would want to know why but that is a different debate then this bill.

There is a big difference in medical care and compensation and this is not being considered.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Someone explain to me how anyone can vote in opposi... - 9/30/2010 11:57:47 AM   
pogo4pres


Posts: 593
Joined: 1/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Illness of this type can be easily diagnosed...and there is a settlement but this is not my point and has not been all along. This is not fair to all affected by the disaster and certainly not fair to those men and women doing the same jobs throughout the US.

This is being used as a political ploy by both sides rather than on its merits.

Why not expand the plan to include all emergency responders? Why not expand it to include those New Yorkers, not emergency responders, that were affected by the disaster there are a lot more of them.

Why half ass coverage when it should be for all not just a few.

Now if the needs of those emergency responders that are affected by the disaster are being ignored I would want to know why but that is a different debate then this bill.

There is a big difference in medical care and compensation and this is not being considered.

Butch




Butch do not ever forget the director of the EPA Christie Todd Whitless (under advisement of the administration) declared the site "safe" for workers.   It should have been declared a hazardous clean up from the get go, if for no other reason than the massive amount of asbestos dust.

Had the "environmental" lobby not stopped the spraying of asbestos when the towers were about 1/2 complete they would probably not have collapsed, as the fires would not have been as devastating to the steel.   That though is a different subject altogether.


Environmentally,
Some Knucklehead in NJ


_____________________________

"All life is pain highness, anyone that says different is just trying to sell something" The Man in Black (Dread Pirate Roberts)

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Someone explain to me how anyone can vote in opposi... - 9/30/2010 12:20:52 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		When I was 15 I worked in an asbestos factory and my job was making fireproof tape for the Mercury Space reentry shield and because I was small getting in the crushers and cleaning the dust and grease from the gears. I now have lung problems should I have free medical insurance provided me the rest of my life?

When I was 20 I was covered with and patrolled in areas sprayed with agent orange...Should I have free health insurance the rest of my life?

When I was 25 I fought fires in California choking on smoke to save property and lives...Should I have free heath insurance the rest of my life?

When I was 38 I cleaned up a dioxin spill and now have skin problems...Should I have free heath insurance the rest of my life?

Have you ever cleaned up destroyed homes from tornados?.. I have more than once... lots of unhealthy dust...Should I have free heath insurance the rest of my life?

I've had two fusion operations on 4 disks...maybe from lifting people into ambulances...maybe not.. I've a total hip replaced and a right knee along with a big toe and joint... Does this mean I should have free lifetime insurance?

YES

But this bill does not give it to hundreds of thousands of emergency responders let alone the thousands of private citizens that inhaled the dust at 9/11

I've many friends and colleges that have been injured saving my and your butt…what about them?

They are overlooking them for political gain and It gets to me.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to pogo4pres)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Someone explain to me how anyone can vote in opposi... - 9/30/2010 12:48:07 PM   
pogo4pres


Posts: 593
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

When I was 15 I worked in an asbestos factory and my job was making fireproof tape for the Mercury Space reentry shield and because I was small getting in the crushers and cleaning the dust and grease from the gears. I now have lung problems should I have free medical insurance provided me the rest of my life?

When I was 20 I was covered with and patrolled in areas sprayed with agent orange...Should I have free health insurance the rest of my life?

When I was 25 I fought fires in California choking on smoke to save property and lives...Should I have free heath insurance the rest of my life?

When I was 38 I cleaned up a dioxin spill and now have skin problems...Should I have free heath insurance the rest of my life?

Have you ever cleaned up destroyed homes from tornados?.. I have more than once... lots of unhealthy dust...Should I have free heath insurance the rest of my life?

I've had two fusion operations on 4 disks...maybe from lifting people into ambulances...maybe not.. I've a total hip replaced and a right knee along with a big toe and joint... Does this mean I should have free lifetime insurance?

YES

But this bill does not give it to hundreds of thousands of emergency responders let alone the thousands of private citizens that inhaled the dust at 9/11

I've many friends and colleges that have been injured saving my and your butt…what about them?

They are overlooking them for political gain and It gets to me.

Butch


Butch if you can not see the difference between you working voluntarily for an asbestos manufacturer AFTER  the problems of asbestos started to come to light, and first responders being told by the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT it was "safe" then you sir are a moron. 

You ever hear of the "Agent Orange" victims compensation? If not shame on you, it was there, and it was established because the GOVERNMENT in the form of the Dept. of Defense LIED, about the hazards of the chemicals.   BTW I worked on C-130's that were used as "defoliant" sprayers, when I was active duty.  Even though the US Air Force insists Operation Ranch Hand was conducted solely using C-123 K's. 

By the time you were 38, (same year I was 30 I might add) you god damned well should have known of the hazards of Dioxin, again if you didn't shame on you.

As for the "saving my butt" bullshit I did my six fucking years dude, from 23 Dec 1976 (first day of basic 4 May 1977) to 11 Apr 1983.  You can take that saving my butt shit and stick it where the sun don't shine ok? 

Firefighters at a tornado are pretty much aware of the hazards, and are willing to put themselves in danger.   Since the vast majority of these men & women are volunteers there should be some sort of medical compensation for them, simply because they risk their asses for the greater good.  People willing to risk their lives voluntarily are very special people, and deserve something more than a insincerely spoken "Thank You".

Hey that is just my opinion, I could be wrong.



Medically,
Some Knucklehead in NJ




< Message edited by pogo4pres -- 9/30/2010 12:49:43 PM >

_____________________________

"All life is pain highness, anyone that says different is just trying to sell something" The Man in Black (Dread Pirate Roberts)

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Someone explain to me how anyone can vote in opposi... - 9/30/2010 2:12:03 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		You tell me I don't know what I am talking about then you prove you don't... They do not pay for your healthcare for agent orange except for particular symptoms and only those.

Asbestos is in may existing homes...we knew it but still had to look for the injured and clean them up like it or not...again there is a class suite for asbestos related injuries...but only related... and even then if there is a responsible party still in business.

Again with Dioxin we knew but did it anyway to protect the public...just like they did during 9/11...what is different?

People are saving our butts every day.. and dieing.... that is my point they deserve the same as the men and women of 9/11....what is different?

The jobs of the responders in New York are no less voluntary as any other responder anywhere...what is different?

The people living and working around the trade center were exposed to the dust… what is different?

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/30/2010 2:18:46 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to pogo4pres)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Someone explain to me how anyone can vote in opposi... - 9/30/2010 3:42:38 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Ah! Another bash those "bad Republicans" thread. We'll be seeing more of these in the next month!
Anyone heard any good Obama jokes lately?
"Obama was giving a talk in someone's back yard in Iowa and people began leaving when....."


I`m just waiting for Mr Independent Poster to say the same when people knock Obama. Its odd that you only defend one side Pops.

Butch one of your comments does you no credit. I assume most emergeny service workers on oil spills have some sort of  protective clothing, as they do in the UK. The guys cleaning up after 9/11 had precious little of that, from what I have seen on news film. What gets me is how you can knock Obama for providing compensation then call someone else a fanatic. Pot, kettle and black springs to mind. .

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Someone explain to me how anyone can vote in opposi... - 9/30/2010 4:49:37 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

So, let me get this straight, the first responders that were exposed to all the dust and other crap when the towers came down are entitled to nothing.

That is a Republican stand.



No, its not. But why bother to learn about why some have voted against the bill when it would ruin the chance to bash them.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Someone explain to me how anyone can vote in opposi... - 9/30/2010 5:47:14 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Ah! Another bash those "bad Republicans" thread. We'll be seeing more of these in the next month!
Anyone heard any good Obama jokes lately?
"Obama was giving a talk in someone's back yard in Iowa and people began leaving when....."


Butch one of your comments does you no credit. I assume most emergeny service workers on oil spills have some sort of  protective clothing, as they do in the UK. The guys cleaning up after 9/11 had precious little of that, from what I have seen on news film. What gets me is how you can knock Obama for providing compensation then call someone else a fanatic. Pot, kettle and black springs to mind. .


There are some jobs that no amount of protection will guarantee...The New York fire and responders are some of the best trained and equipped in the world let alone America. And politesub I am surprised you did not read my posts before accusing me of knocking anything... If you do you will read what I think of care for the 9/11 victims and all emergency responders.

This bill is only being presented because of the beating the Democrats are taking in the poles and they hope it will gain them favor with voters.

It is ill conceived and not fair or comprehensive and is shameful.

I call it like I see it…now I may be wrong and if I am I hope they amend the bill to cover all emergency responders and anyone whose health suffered because of any disaster nation wide. Then let the republicans scream socialized medicine and I’ll bet they will get little support.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Someone explain to me how anyone can vote in opposi... - 9/30/2010 7:29:28 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Ah! Another bash those "bad Republicans" thread. We'll be seeing more of these in the next month!
Anyone heard any good Obama jokes lately?
"Obama was giving a talk in someone's back yard in Iowa and people began leaving when....."


I`m just waiting for Mr Independent Poster to say the same when people knock Obama. Its odd that you only defend one side Pops.

Butch one of your comments does you no credit. I assume most emergeny service workers on oil spills have some sort of  protective clothing, as they do in the UK. The guys cleaning up after 9/11 had precious little of that, from what I have seen on news film. What gets me is how you can knock Obama for providing compensation then call someone else a fanatic. Pot, kettle and black springs to mind. .


polite, I worked a lot of minor petroleum spills from 80 to 84 when I was in college and just after to get some much needed $. We had NO protective gear.
No respitators, no tyvek suits, nothing but what we wore when we showed up.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 51
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