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RE: LET IT BURN?!? Firefighters Watch Home Go Up In Fla... - 10/5/2010 7:43:13 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: hsimlexx

the asinine thing is that the neighbor also suffered damage. if the FD had dealt with the first fire the neighbor would have suffered no damages. maybe the fools in that town will rethink their policy. or maybe not. sure worked out terrific for them. their FD responded to a call and did nothing and spent the gasoline money to do it. brilliant. 


Thank You!!!

Someone finally sees the stupidity!!



So it is my fault-- this asshole set a fire in his burn barrel.  Who set the fire?

WHO?

WHO!!!!




The grandson.

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Profile   Post #: 101
RE: LET IT BURN?!? Firefighters Watch Home Go Up In Fla... - 10/5/2010 7:43:15 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

“Everyone deserves fire protection because providing public safety is among a municipality’s highest priorities.

“Instead, South Fulton wants to charge citizens outside the city for fire protection. We condemn South Fulton’s ill-advised, unsafe policy. Professional, career fire fighters shouldn’t be forced to check a list before running out the door to see which homeowners have paid up. They get in their trucks and go.”



This was not the particular municpality's priority.  It was not even in their area of responsibility.

South Fulton will likely revoke the offer to cover people outside the City. I know I would.

This certainly helps the county, doesn't it?

They'll have to either go without any fire protection, or form a redundant fire department, likely at a much great cost.

Because of a free loader.

Firm



They had an offer for a County FD. The County Commisioners rejected it.

Courtesy of the world wide web, for example, here's "A Presentation Regarding The Establishment And Implementation of a County-Wide Fire Department," dated March 18, 2008, describing exactly how fire services work in the County of Obion. Also included in this document: a plan to create an Obion County Fire Department by merging the services of the various municipal fire departments in the county along with a plan to raise about half a million dollars to fund it. Revenue would come from either a 0.13 cent property tax increase, a fee on electric meters, or a flat subscription fee.

http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2010/10/firefighting-obion-county


Great.

Now we have established who is at fault, haven't we?

It's the County.  Not the City, not the Fire Department.

Geez.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

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Profile   Post #: 102
RE: LET IT BURN?!? Firefighters Watch Home Go Up In Fla... - 10/5/2010 7:44:54 PM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Put the fire out, then bill the guy for time and materials spent putting it out.


It would cost more to collect it than they could get out of the guy. Even if there is a legal basis to try to.


I had assumed he owned the house, in which case he has assets.  But you might be right - he could be renting.


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Profile   Post #: 103
RE: LET IT BURN?!? Firefighters Watch Home Go Up In Fla... - 10/5/2010 7:45:02 PM   
tazzygirl


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No one is blaming the fire fighters. Not even the people whose house burned down.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 104
RE: LET IT BURN?!? Firefighters Watch Home Go Up In Fla... - 10/5/2010 7:46:35 PM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Firm-  her ISP should give her service to me.


Even tho she paid for it- and needs it- I also must have ISP.  I want her ISP to serve ME, and I want it now.

I might even pay- if I get around to it- but not now- and not this year- since her ISP will surely give me her hook up.

And I will use her hook up for as long as I need it.  ME.   If she needs it when I am using it- then too bad.  It is all about ME.  




When you can prove having access to the internet is in the best interest of public safety, then i will agree to your analogy. Until then, its full of holes... as full as your brain.




Oh really?


At least- I did not set my house on fire thru sloppy burn barrel to save $1 on the garbage bill.

This slob- set that fire- and you feel sorry for him.  

No wonder why the country is a mess.  You ENABLE him to be irresponsible.



Seems this isnt the first time this issue has been raised.

http://www.nwtntoday.com/news.php?viewStory=14118

And all reports i can find state it was the grandson who started the burning, not the owners.



When someone has 2 burn barrels on their property- is it any surprise that someone burns garbage in them?

THINK.   Burn barrel.    FIRE.   

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Profile   Post #: 105
RE: LET IT BURN?!? Firefighters Watch Home Go Up In Fla... - 10/5/2010 7:50:03 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Volunteer FDs are always cheaper then when a city has a paid FD.   The taxes are jacked up to cover that cost.

even volunteers-  you can only push so far.  Often these guys have day jobs.  



I once lived in a small rural town in which the city provided the fire house, some equipment and a communications system for a VFD.  The volunteers were not paid a salary, but only a small fee (between $20-$50 per incident) when there was a call out.

All the admin and training was done gratis by members of the department.

The county didn't have enough tax funds to hire enough firemen to cover the county, but what they did was become a partner with the city, and the VFD itself, and provide property and buildings around the county for the fire personnel to stage trucks and equipment.

Because of the costs, and the improvement to the overall abilities of the Fire Department, the City paid the salary of a full time admin person, and the Chief.

So, we had a private,volunteer organization, partially funded by the City, partial funded by the County, which also raised private donations.

It was a pretty effective department, which also required County citizens to pay a minimal subscription fee, to help offset the costs of the Counties funding.

Occasionally, someone wouldn't pay the fee, and needed to call the Department.

Sometimes they would come and fight the fire, sometimes they would just come and make sure it didn't get out of control.  It depended on a lot of factors, including the decision of the Fire Department itself, and the agreements between the three bodies.

It can become pretty complicated.

Firm




Good post.   Resources are LIMITED.

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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: LET IT BURN?!? Firefighters Watch Home Go Up In Fla... - 10/5/2010 7:53:58 PM   
pahunkboy


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from the link-


the commissioners also stressed that if a fire is life-threatening, the fire department will respond regardless of a subscription./snip

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Profile   Post #: 107
RE: LET IT BURN?!? Firefighters Watch Home Go Up In Fla... - 10/5/2010 7:54:22 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

IF they had showed up when called, the neighbors house would not have had any damage at all.


Where are you getting the information that the neighbor's house was damaged?

Firm

efs


< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 10/5/2010 8:01:22 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: LET IT BURN?!? Firefighters Watch Home Go Up In Fla... - 10/5/2010 7:59:41 PM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
That whole family is trash.

The grandson sets the fire- then attacks the fire chief.

What a bunch of trash. 

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Profile   Post #: 109
RE: LET IT BURN?!? Firefighters Watch Home Go Up In Fla... - 10/5/2010 8:19:22 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

IF they had showed up when called, the neighbors house would not have had any damage at all.


Where are you getting the information that the neighbor's house was damaged?

Firm

efs



Your right, i should have said property.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 110
RE: LET IT BURN?!? Firefighters Watch Home Go Up In Fla... - 10/5/2010 8:20:13 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
 "A Presentation Regarding The Establishment And Implementation of a County-Wide Fire Department," dated March 18, 2008, describing exactly how fire services work in the County of Obion


Some interesting information in this document:

Overview:

Fire service is without question a basic life/property saving emergency service. It is no less important than law enforcement, rescue, and emergency medical services. No other emergency agency responds solely on a subscription basis, ability to pay basis or under the threat of not responding if you don’t pay your bill. Counties will be called upon to provide higher levels of fire protection services and must begin to plan for these issues prior to the occurrence of a crisis or catastrophe.

On January 19, 1987, the Obion County Commission passed a resolution establishing an Obion County Fire Department, but no action was taken to implement the resolution. Therefore, Obion County has a county fire department on paper, but is unmanned, unfunded and not operational.

Currently there are 8 municipal departments in Obion County which are providing fire protection for most of Obion County’s rural areas. These departments are

•Hornbeak Fire Department
•Kenton Fire Department
•Obion Fire Department
•Rives Fire Department
•Samburg Fire Department
•South Fulton Fire Department
•Troy Fire Department
•Union City Fire Department

In addition, the Obion County Rescue Squad responds to rural grass and vehicle fires in designated areas. There are currently areas of Obion County which rely on fire departments from outside Obion County for their fire protection (Ridgely Fire Department from Lake County, Trimble Fire Department from Dyer County, and Sidonia Fire Department from Weakley County), and there is approximately 15 square miles of southwestern Obion County which has no fire protection.

Three (3) of the municipal departments are offering services on a subscription basis, and five (5) municipal departments are offering services on an as needed basis without subscription or ability to pay for response. The municipal fire departments which utilize a subscription service are not bound to and do not respond to fires on rural properties which do not have a subscription for fire service. The only rural property owners guaranteed to receive fire protection services are those who choose to pay for it. It they choose not to purchase an annual subscription and require fire protection services, they fall on the mercy of a municipal department who provide services on an as needed basis. When such occurs, the responding fire department normally provides those services without compensation.

According to survey information, over 75% of all municipal fire department’s structure calls are rural. All fire departments in Obion County charge a $500.00 fee per call in rural areas, but collections are, less than 50% and the fire departments have no way of legally collecting the charge. Therefore, the service was provided at the expense of the municipal tax payer.

Because there is no operational county fire department, Obion County has missed the opportunity to actively pursue receipt of FEMA Assistance to Firefighters Grants (AFG) and Community Development Block Grants (CDBG), which could amount to hundreds of thousands of dollars of funding. By taking the steps to make the county fire department operational, Obion County could apply for these grants to provide much needed equipment and funding for the existing fire departments and equip additional fire departments when the need arises.

Even though most municipal fire departments in Obion County have benefited from AFG and CDBG grants to upgrade apparatus and equipment, each department must have operating funds to continue operations. Each individual municipality currently furnishes operating funds for their fire departments without assistance from the county or state. Federal, state and local mandates for training, apparatus, equipment and personnel are costing each fire department more money each year, and fire departments desperately need additional operating funds to stay caught up with these mandates.

Grant funds alone won’t fund the annual operating budget of a fire department. Annual appropriations from local sources are needed for additional operational funds to ensure our municipal fire departments remain organized in a manner to meet the current and future challenges of rural Obion County.

United States Fire Administration (USFA) surveys indicate the following:

•Over 70% of all fire personnel in the U.S. are volunteer.
•21% of volunteer fire departments have 4 or fewer personnel respond to a mid-day structure fire
•Personnel lack formal training in structural firefighting
•Personnel lack state certification in structural firefighting
•Many volunteer fire departments do not have enough portable radios or pagers
•Many volunteer fire departments are not properly equipped with Self-contained Breathing Apparatus or personal protective equipment.

Some of the obstacles encountered by small, volunteer fire departments because of limited funding are:

•Recruitment of fire department members
•Retention of fire department members
•Operating funds necessary to maintaining NFPA /ISO/OSHA requirements
•Equipment purchase without grant funds
•Apparatus purchase without grant funds
•Meeting training requirements for firefighters

Purpose:

To formally establish a county-wide fire department which will provide quality fire protection and emergency response to all areas of Obion County in a timely manner with no subscription fees or requirements for response.

Scope of Project:

Utilize apparatus, personnel, fire stations and equipment of existing 8 municipal fire departments to provide countywide fire protection.

Future addition of two (2) additional stations and equipment to reduce response times and improve coverage areas.

Provide annual funding for each municipal fire department from Obion County to help fund rural fire protection.

Benefits:


Fire Protection/emergency response to all areas of Obion County

Lower ISO rating for rural areas of Obion County that would mean lower homeowner insurance premiums.

By utilizing existing fire department resources, Obion County would save approximately $5,000,000.00 in initial equipment investment in the establishment of a county-wide fire department.

Establishment of county-wide fire protection fits in with Obion County growth plan for prospective businesses and homeowners.

Multiple fire departments responding to structure fires under the automatic aid/mutual aid agreement would greatly increase firefighter safety and capabilities.

Gives municipal fire departments the ability to be more self-reliant instead of relying on State and Federal grants, which are not guaranteed.

Explanation of the countywide fire protection plan


Our common goal is to provide fire protection to all areas of Obion County without discrimination from lack of insurance, lack of subscription, ability to pay, or the decision that it’s outside of a fire department’s designated area of operation. A major portion of Obion County has been furnished rural fire protection free of charge for decades.

Statistics indicate that the majority of all fire calls are rural in nature and are responded to by municipal fire departments. These departments are solely funded by the tax dollars belonging to each individual town or city. It is becoming more difficult to convince municipal leaders that the municipal fire departments responding to calls outside the municipal boundaries and for which no compensation is guaranteed is “just the right thing to do”.

The plan being presented would utilize the existing municipal fire departments in Obion County, which have much needed apparatus, equipment and personnel in place. If these departments are utilized effectively, Obion County will have no need to duplicate the existing departments for rural fire coverage alone. However, two additional departments may be needed in some of the more remote areas of the county (north central and south western Obion County) in the future.

If you are interested in this type of stuff, it's a very well put together document, and it seems pretty accurate to me.

So ... why didn't the county go through with it, and why should the cities use their budget for the citizens of the county who refuse to do it for themselves, even when they recognize that they need to do so?

Local politics, (and politicians) I suspect.

Firm




_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

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Profile   Post #: 111
RE: LET IT BURN?!? Firefighters Watch Home Go Up In Fla... - 10/5/2010 8:20:51 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

That whole family is trash.

The grandson sets the fire- then attacks the fire chief.

What a bunch of trash. 



Ya know, pa, you are really starting to piss me off with your judgemental attitude. You dont know these people. Back off the personal attacks.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 112
RE: LET IT BURN?!? Firefighters Watch Home Go Up In Fla... - 10/5/2010 8:23:45 PM   
tazzygirl


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No doubt local politics. But, as one blogger pointed out on another site, its also a good way to ensure that all will pay in the future, and that any rate hikes will go undisputed.

quote:

So ... why didn't the county go through with it, and why should the cities use their budget for the citizens of the county who refuse to do it for themselves, even when they recognize that they need to do so?


I had read that the county isnt the richest in regards to those not living in the cities. Perhaps that has something to do with it.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: LET IT BURN?!? Firefighters Watch Home Go Up In Fla... - 10/5/2010 8:33:58 PM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

That whole family is trash.

The grandson sets the fire- then attacks the fire chief.

What a bunch of trash. 



Ya know, pa, you are really starting to piss me off with your judgemental attitude. You dont know these people. Back off the personal attacks.



No one else on this list- has carelessly set their house on fire from a burn barrel.   Those people are TRASH!


No one else has this problem.     "I" did not set my house on fire.   "You" did not set your house on fire.    Firm- did not set house on fire.

No one around for miles and miles and miles was trashy enough to be a tightwad- and not want to pay $1 for garbage disposal had 2 burn barrels and set the house on fire as will as the neighbors how.  

The family is trash.

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Profile   Post #: 114
RE: LET IT BURN?!? Firefighters Watch Home Go Up In Fla... - 10/5/2010 8:45:42 PM   
tazzygirl


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My son set my house on fire at age six when his friend produced a lighter from his house and they decided to burn leaves.

For fuck sake... accidents happen!!

YOU dont know these people.

YOU only assume what you wish to assume.

I grew up on four acres of land with a small farm and two burn barrels.

One got out of hand... costs us 500 dollars for the fire department to come out and that was back in the 70's.

This is all political and you are too stupid to even recognize it.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: LET IT BURN?!? Firefighters Watch Home Go Up In Fla... - 10/5/2010 9:17:11 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

That whole family is trash.

The grandson sets the fire- then attacks the fire chief.

What a bunch of trash. 



Ya know, pa, you are really starting to piss me off with your judgmental attitude. You don't know these people. Back off the personal attacks.


I have to agree here.  Having a burn barrel or two does not make a family trashy.

Fires can get out of control whether from the burn barrel or fireworks or frying bacon. 

I have no idea how many times I set the smoke detector off while I was pregnant.  Not from willful negligence on my part, but because for some reason pregnancy hormones and using a cast iron skillet just did not mix for me.  While I never actually started a fire, it was a near thing several times. 

So I think that you are condeming this family when you really do not know their living conditions.

_____________________________

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RE: LET IT BURN?!? Firefighters Watch Home Go Up In Fla... - 10/6/2010 12:25:39 AM   
hlen5


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Was anyone watching the original fire? No one should start a fire and not be vigilant over it. If you know you don't have fire protection and you start burning something, you had better be darn sure you are standing over it with a garden hose, at least.

If the fire department HAD put out the fire, who would blame half the rural residents for not ponying up the next year? Then where would the gas for the trucks come from?

It's a shame that property and (even more important) that helpless pets were lost in this case. I don't understand why if there were two hours to get the pets out, it wasn't done. Was no one attending the fire?

It's too bad that the only penalty for not paying the subscription fee is losing your home. Perhaps if it were thought of ahead of time, the policy could have been being assessed a huge fine or service fee for getting your property serviced without having paid for maintenance of the department.

How much does anyone want to bet the paid subscriptions in Fulton County go up next year?

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RE: LET IT BURN?!? Firefighters Watch Home Go Up In Fla... - 10/6/2010 4:54:54 AM   
tazzygirl


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Along with the fee?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 118
RE: LET IT BURN?!? Firefighters Watch Home Go Up In Fla... - 10/6/2010 5:47:14 AM   
housesub4you


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Well it seems the Fire Chief in the area does not agree with the fee based fire protection, seems the Fire Chief should be someone they listen to.

Union City Fire Department Chief Kelly Edmison objects to the new expansion, saying that “the best option is a true fire tax. It eliminates this having 911 or whoever check to say, ‘Are they covered or not covered?’ The last thing a firefighter wants to do is to not be able to help when they’d like to.” According to documents prepared by the county in 2008, a paltry 0.13 cent increase in property taxes on each household would be all it would take to fund fire services for the towns within the county.


The expansion he is talking about concerns last night vote to expand the area where they have to pay a fee.

If you click on the link for the tax increase you will read this in the first paragraph   "no other life saving service is fee based on ability to pay or threat of non service if you do not pay, counties will be called upon to provide a higher levels of fire protection .....

so it seems they are collecting the money and they dumping the responsibility on the county to protect those who can't or did not pay


< Message edited by housesub4you -- 10/6/2010 5:53:46 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 119
RE: LET IT BURN?!? Firefighters Watch Home Go Up In Fla... - 10/6/2010 6:08:28 AM   
odysseyIndeed


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

No doubt local politics. But, as one blogger pointed out on another site, its also a good way to ensure that all will pay in the future, and that any rate hikes will go undisputed.

quote:

So ... why didn't the county go through with it, and why should the cities use their budget for the citizens of the county who refuse to do it for themselves, even when they recognize that they need to do so?


I had read that the county isnt the richest in regards to those not living in the cities. Perhaps that has something to do with it.


According to the local news the day after this happened, there was another fire in 2008 that was not put out because the fee had not been paid so apparently that didn't persuade this man to pay his fee this year.

In an earlier post you stated you have read sources that this fire department has taken payment for putting out a fire after the fact. Could you link those please? I've not been able to find any.

And, as I said before, I was pretty angry about the situation when I first heard about it and thought it was awful for them that they lost their home over 75$. But when I found out it took 2 hours for the fire to spread to the house and no one in that time cared enough for their pets to get them out of the house, my sympathy for them fell a great deal.

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Profile   Post #: 120
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