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Female Circumcision - 10/12/2010 1:10:39 AM   
dvart


Posts: 110
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline 		I think of myself as a social libertarian, but even I think there have to be limits.

You may be my slave, but the situation is reversible. You can walk away.

But female circumcision, or more correctly, female gentile mutilation, is not reversible and it is a serious social problem in Britain. For that reason it is illegal.

(See "Guardian" article at  http://tiny.cc/dozc2)

The moderators are usually pretty proactive at removing material that infringes Collarme's rules.

So I was frankly shocked to see this in somebody's profile.

"Looking for a mistress or circumciser who remove my clit and labia."

This may well be a fantasy, but unfortunately there are plenty of people around who are prepared to carry out this dangerous and illegal procedure.

By allowing this, Collarme are providing unwitting support to a social ill and they are bringing the \BDSM community into disrepute.
There may even be legal problems.
But in any case such a profile is highly undesirable and may ruin a young person's life.

I have reported the profile, but nothing has happened.

I would urge the moderators, to ban all references to Female Circumcision.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Female Circumcision - 10/12/2010 1:26:13 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		you would be best contacting the mods directly if there is something that you are seriously concerned with.

But bear in mind that these people are adults, with adult fantasies. Yeah, I think she's phenomenally stupid for asking for female circumcision, but her chances of finding someone to do it are extremely slim. And even if she did find someone as reckless/certifiable as herself, the chances of finding a doctor (particularly in western Europe) who will perform this is negligible because of its unethical/illegal status.


edited for clarity

< Message edited by myotherself -- 10/12/2010 1:27:59 AM >

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RE: Female Circumcision - 10/12/2010 1:39:18 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline 		Thought police?!?!

Lots of women have fantasies about being circumcised, just as they do about being raped. There are a lot of profiles on CM that show illegal fantasies and perhaps some of those people really desire for that fantasy to become reality.
In the UK any physical act of bondage and marking through consensual activities are illegal, so where do we draw the line?

This is all I am going to say on the matter because one can't argue with irrationality and this is an irrational argument.


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RE: Female Circumcision - 10/12/2010 1:48:08 AM   
dvart


Posts: 110
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline 		@myotherself:

I hope to goodness that the risk of this young woman finding a circumciser is "negligible" as you suggest, but I very much fear she WILL find someone via collarme.

I have not found a way of "contacting the moderators directly", otherwise I would certainly have done that first.

But I have a general point to make, collarme should not be seen to condone or publicise illegal activity or non reversible physical mutilation as extreme as this.

All profiles are pre-moderated.

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RE: Female Circumcision - 10/12/2010 1:56:37 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		Go to the main page (the one with all the profiles on it)

Go to the very bottom of the page, and there is a line of blue 'hot buttons' there, right across the bottom of the page.

Click on "support" and this will allow you to contact the mods directly.

Profiles are not pre-moderated, and they rely on us to let them know when there is something wrong.

As Allthatjazz said, there are lots of fantasies advertised on this site that are illegal. We could include race play, branding, knife play, rape and kidnap - it's all on here. There is one male profile in which he asks for someone to nail his penis and scrotum to a table. That's illegal, it's mutilation, but it's his fantasy.

Many people who pose these kinds of extreme fantasies do NOT want them to happen. They want to find someone who finds the IDEA of it as much a turn-on as they do, and then they may find a less extreme way to cater for this fantasy.

I think your best bet is to drop a direct message to the mods, then hide the profile and forget about it. If the mods find it unacceptable it will go. If not, it will stay.

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RE: Female Circumcision - 10/12/2010 2:00:49 AM   
dvart


Posts: 110
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline 		allthatjaz

For me it is quite easy to see where you draw the line.

Bondage is reversible.

Branding is not reversible, but it does permanently remove an essential bodily function.

The law says I am not allowed to cut off your arm, murder you or mutilate your genitals even if you ask me to.

The law is right.

Female genital mutilation is not just a fantasy, it is a painful and damaging reality for thousands of British Women.

Society HAS to draw the line in all sorts of ways and you would not enjoy living in a society where no lines are drawn.

I am not a member of the Thought Police and my argument is not irrational.

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RE: Female Circumcision - 10/12/2010 2:14:05 AM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		I'd love to see the report that shows that there are thousands of British women walking around without clits and labias.
Seriously.

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RE: Female Circumcision - 10/12/2010 2:21:08 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		lol - it's in The Guardian newspaper.

We have quite a large ethnic population here, and I have no doubt that some of this madness takes place (although more likely mostly done overseas), it's going to be no worse than any other country with a similar ethnic mix.

And having worked briefly for The Guardian, I tend to take their 'news' with a rather large shovel-full of salt...

Here is the link as the OP's link doesn't seem to work


ETA hyperlink to story

< Message edited by myotherself -- 10/12/2010 2:23:02 AM >

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RE: Female Circumcision - 10/12/2010 3:06:17 AM   
dvart


Posts: 110
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I'd love to see the report that shows that there are thousands of British women walking around without clits and labias.
Seriously.

"Experts believe 74,000 first-generation African immigrant women in the UK have undergone female circumcision. Rahmat Mohammad, of the women's rights group Forward, said an estimated 7,000 girls in the UK were currently at risk of being forced into the procedure."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3528095.stm
Female circumcision growing in Britain despite being illegal

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/jul/25/female-circumcision-health-child-abuse

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article5913979.ece

Research commissioned by the Department of Health suggests that more than 20,000 British girls are at risk of being forced into the agonising procedure, where all or part of their external genitals are cut off and stitched up.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/female-circumcision-a-tradition-steeped-in-blood-852028.html

www.teachernet.gov.uk/_doc/13849/FGM-factsheet.pdf

http://www.unicef.org.uk/unicefuk/policies/policy_detail.asp?policy=12

The unspeakable practice of female circumcision that's destroying young women's lives in Britain

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-505796/The-unspeakable-practice-female-circumcision-thats-destroying-young-womens-lives-Britain.html#ixzz128b34k63



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RE: Female Circumcision - 10/12/2010 3:21:01 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		OP - is there any reason for you trying to portray my country as being some kind of "FGM capital of the world", other than it being one of the few countries that has actually done a survey on the subject?



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RE: Female Circumcision - 10/12/2010 3:41:37 AM   
dvart


Posts: 110
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline
quote:

is there any reason for you trying to portray my country as being some kind of "FGM capital of the world"


It's my country as well and therefore the one I know about.

I'm quite sure it is MUCH worse in many other countries.

But the profile was from a Western European Country (Germany) and I wanted to point out the women were really at risk in the so called civilized West.

I really hope this is just a fantasy, but I really fear it is not. The young woman talks (in German) of going abroad to have the procedure. She seems in deadly earnest.

Collarme can of course not prevent her getting it done, but it should not be helping her to do something that is illegal in Germany and the UK.

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RE: Female Circumcision - 10/12/2010 4:15:29 AM   
SpiritedRadiance


Posts: 1341
Joined: 3/3/2010
Status: offline 		And if she wants it?

Seriously op I get you think its terrible, id rather die then have the procedure, HOWEVER. Not everyone feels like me.

Most body mods are very hard to reverse, and costly to do so. But people still have them done every single day. So this girl wishes to have a body mod albiet an extreme one. Its her body her choice.

The point is you don't own or control this girl she's not yours to order around and if she wants to make the adult decision to get circumsized she can do that.

Removing her profile isn't. Going to change her mind if she really wants it.

Put the profile on hide and move on.

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RE: Female Circumcision - 10/12/2010 4:35:54 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dvart


Collarme can of course not prevent her getting it done, but it should not be helping her to do something that is illegal in Germany and the UK.



It's not illegal everywhere, and to be honest if she's wants to have it done that much, then she'll find a way.

If you've used the 'report profile' button AND contacted the mods directly, then you've done your bit.

It's very easy to get caught up in the lives of strangers online, the trick is to do what you can to help and then walk away.

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RE: Female Circumcision - 10/12/2010 6:27:51 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline 		I wasn't going to reply again but I think its important that you read this.

http://www.cocorioko.net/old/national/1264-designer-vaginas-is-female-circumcision-coming-out-of-the-closet

Its about a circumcised and sexually fulfilled African woman who is interested to know what is going on in the western world regarding labiaplasty and clitoral hood reduction (designer vagina's) Labiasplasty is becoming increasingly popular but in reality, its just another form of circumcision

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RE: Female Circumcision - 10/12/2010 6:48:04 AM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dvart

By allowing this, Collarme are providing unwitting support to a social ill and they are bringing the \BDSM community into disrepute.
There may even be legal problems.
But in any case such a profile is highly undesirable and may ruin a young person's life.

I have reported the profile, but nothing has happened.

I would urge the moderators, to ban all references to Female Circumcision.

Please Collarme, SAVE US!

~stef


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RE: Female Circumcision - 10/12/2010 6:51:41 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

I'd love to see the report that shows that there are thousands of British women walking around without clits and labias.
Seriously.


I've always considered you a very big twat, but then you aren't British are you, Aileen?

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RE: Female Circumcision - 10/12/2010 8:22:57 AM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		I'd say the likelihood that that profile and request were actually written by a female are pretty slim. You can't lose your cookies every time you read something shocking in a CM profile.

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RE: Female Circumcision - 10/12/2010 8:25:08 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dvart

For me it is quite easy to see where you draw the line.



Well, I'm guessing the body mod fetishists will be so relieved that no-one has made you king of the world then.

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RE: Female Circumcision - 10/12/2010 8:28:25 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		Yes, yes, yes - Forced FGM is a fucking abomination, no disagreement there at all.

A considered, healthy, desire to have your bits modified isn't though.

And yes, we're all going to draw a line - I draw it at the point where someone's ability to function effectively is impaired, you draw it less liberally.

Sigh.... Guardie readers.

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RE: Female Circumcision - 10/12/2010 8:36:20 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance

And if she wants it?

Seriously op I get you think its terrible, id rather die then have the procedure, HOWEVER. Not everyone feels like me.

Most body mods are very hard to reverse, and costly to do so. But people still have them done every single day. So this girl wishes to have a body mod albiet an extreme one. Its her body her choice.

The point is you don't own or control this girl she's not yours to order around and if she wants to make the adult decision to get circumsized she can do that.

Removing her profile isn't. Going to change her mind if she really wants it.

Put the profile on hide and move on.


Any argument for freedom of expression implies the freedom to protest against something that one doesn't like, as well.  On the very same basis, if someone wants to do more than 'hide a profile and move on', then he or she has the right to do so. 

Just saying. 

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