quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The AOC are no longer the law of the land. When the States ratified the Constitution they also voided the AOC.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne



as you can see from my above post that the united states of america is recognized independently from the united states, hence ken is wrong and so are you.

The "presumption" is that everyone is a "united states" citizen subject to the jurisdiction thereof....  dont ya just love fucking atturnonmees?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The AOC did not create the US. Legally the USA was created by the Treaty of Paris.

http://www.law.ou.edu/ushistory/paris.shtml

quote:

The Paris Peace Treaty of 1783 In the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity. It having pleased the Divine Providence to dispose the hearts of the most serene and most potent Prince George the Third, by the grace of God, king of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, defender of the faith, duke of Brunswick and Lunebourg, arch- treasurer and prince elector of the Holy Roman Empire etc., and of the United States of America, (colonies whos creation was authorized by the king) to forget all past misunderstandings and differences that have unhappily interrupted the good correspondence and friendship which they mutually wish to restore, and to establish such a beneficial and satisfactory intercourse , between the two countries upon the ground of reciprocal advantages and mutual convenience as may promote and secure to both perpetual peace and harmony; and having for this desirable end already laid the foundation of peace and reconciliation by the Provisional Articles signed at Paris on the 30th of November 1782, by the commissioners empowered on each part, which articles were agreed to be inserted in and constitute the Treaty of Peace proposed to be concluded between the Crown of Great Britain (a corporate trust) and the said United States, (a corporate trust) but which treaty was not to be concluded until terms of peace should be agreed upon between Great Britain and France and his Britannic Majesty should be ready to conclude such treaty accordingly; and the treaty between Great Britain and France having since been concluded, his Britannic Majesty and the United States of America, in order to carry into full effect the Provisional Articles above mentioned, according to the tenor thereof, have constituted and appointed, that is to say his Britannic Majesty on his part, David Hartley, Esqr., member of the Parliament of Great Britain, and the said United States on their part, John Adams, Esqr., late a commissioner of the United States of America at the court of Versailles, late delegate in Congress from the state of Massachusetts, and chief justice of the said state, and minister plenipotentiary of the said United States to their high mightinesses the States General of the United Netherlands; Benjamin Franklin, Esqr., late delegate in Congress from the state of Pennsylvania, president of the convention of the said state, and minister plenipotentiary from the United States of America at the court of Versailles; John Jay, Esqr., late president of Congress and chief justice of the state of New York, and minister plenipotentiary from the said United States at the court of Madrid; to be plenipotentiaries for the concluding and signing the present definitive treaty; who after having reciprocally communicated their respective full powers have agreed upon and confirmed the following articles.

quote:

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/contcong_10-20-74.asp

Journals of the Coninental Congress - The Articles of Association; October 20, 1774

We, his majesty's most loyal subjects, the delegates of the several colonies of New-Hampshire, Massachusetts-Bay, Rhode-Island, Connecticut, New-York, New-Jersey, Pennsylvania, the three lower counties of Newcastle, Kent and Sussex on Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North-Carolina, and South-Carolina, deputed to represent them in a continental Congress, held in the city of Philadelphia, on the 5th day of September, 1774, avowing our allegiance to his majesty, our affection and regard for our fellow-subjects in Great-Britain and elsewhere, affected with the deepest anxiety, and most alarming apprehensions, at those grievances and distresses, with which his Majesty's American subjects are oppressed; and having taken under our most serious deliberation, the state of the whole continent, find, that the present unhappy situation of our affairs is occasioned by a ruinous system of colony administration, adopted by the British ministry about the year 1763, evidently calculated for enslaving these colonies, and, with them, the British Empire.
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14. And we do further agree and resolve that we will have no trade, commerce, dealings or intercourse whatsoever, with any colony or province, in North-America, which shall not accede to, or which shall hereafter violate this association, but will hold them as unworthy of the rights of freemen, and as inimical to the liberties of their country.

And we do solemnly bind ourselves and our constituents, under the ties aforesaid, to adhere to this association, until such parts of the several acts of parliament passed since the close of the last war, as impose or continue duties on tea, wine, molasses, syrups paneles, coffee, sugar, pimento, indigo, foreign paper, glass, and painters' colours, imported into America, and extend the powers of the admiralty courts beyond their ancient limits, deprive the American subject of trial by jury, authorize the judge's certificate to indemnify the prosecutor from damages, that he might otherwise be liable to from a trial by his peers, require oppressive security from a claimant of ships or goods seized, before he shall be allowed to defend his property, are repealed.-And until that part of the act of the 12 G. 3. ch. 24, entitled "An act for the better securing his majesty's dock-yards magazines, ships, ammunition, and stores," by which any persons charged with committing any of the offenses therein described, in America, may be tried in any shire or county within the realm, is repealed-and until the four acts, passed the last session of parliament, viz. that for stopping the port and blocking up the harbour of Boston-that for altering the charter and government of the Massachusetts-Bay-and that which is entitled "An act for the better administration of justice, &c."-and that "for extending the limits of Quebec, &c." are repealed. And we recommend it to the provincial conventions, and to the committees in the respective colonies, to establish such farther regulations as they may think proper, for carrying into execution this association.

The foregoing association being determined upon by the Congress, was ordered to be subscribed by the several members thereof; and thereupon, we have hereunto set our respective names accordingly.

IN CONGRESS, PHILADELPHIA, October 20, 1774.

Signed, PEYTON RANDOLPH, President.

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Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union between the States of New Hampshire, Massachusetts-bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia.

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Article I. The Stile of this Confederacy shall be "The United States of America."

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Article II. Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every Power, Jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled.

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Article III. The said States hereby severally enter into a firm league of friendship with each other, for their common defense, the security of their liberties, and their mutual and general welfare, binding themselves to assist each other, against all force offered to, or attacks made upon them, or any of them, on account of religion, sovereignty, trade, or any other pretense whatever.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne



as you can see from my above post that the united states of america is recognized independently from the united states, hence ken is wrong and so are you.

The "presumption" is that everyone is a "united states" citizen subject to the jurisdiction thereof....  dont ya just love fucking atturnonmees?

except that everything you post is either imbicilic asswipe, or out and out wrong, or drawing conclusions not in evidence in the subject matter.

by example, the congressional record is people talking, and it means nothing and does not carry the force of law.

Thats like you arguing a popeye and olive oyl comic before the supreme court as judicial proof prima facie in some obscure point of law that you get wrong, which you have and will, in every case, that is the one certainty here.  

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

There are a great many things that exist without the declaration and title.

Not constitutions, corporations, trusts and "law", much less government for shit sake.  Dream on.   You gotta be smokin some good shit to say that.

If you are talking about your farts yeh that I agree with. 

your di minimis cavil is wholly frivolous and without grounds or merit.

edited because thats always the way my fingers wanna go, even when I know better

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I have seen no evidence, only the disjointed ramblings of a madman.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steponme73

The government I feel is legitimate. However, I think it is way to big, has way to much power, and has gone from a republic to a socialist state. And WE THE PEOPLE are to thank for that.
People in congress are there because they want to better themselves not the country.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

When were corporate trusts invented? Certainly it was well after 1783. The Crown of Great Britain is simple shorthand for the monarch identified at teh begining of the treaty.

quote:

Worldwide system of dependencies — colonies, protectorates, and other territories — that over a span of three centuries came under the British government. Territorial acquisition began in the early 17th century with a group of settlements in North America and West Indian, South Asian, and African trading posts founded by private individuals and trading companies. In the 18th century the British took Gibraltar, established colonies along the Atlantic seacoast of North America and in the Caribbean Sea, and began to add territory in India. With its victory in the French and Indian War (1763), the empire secured Canada and the eastern Mississippi Valley and gained supremacy in India. From the late 18th century it began to build power in Malaya and acquired the Cape of Good Hope, Ceylon (see Sri Lanka), and Malta. The British settled Australia in 1788 and subsequently New Zealand. Aden was secured in 1839, and Hong Kong in 1841. Britain went on to control the Suez Canal (1875 – 1956). In the 19th-century European partition of Africa, Britain acquired Nigeria, Egypt, the territories that would become British East Africa, and part of what would become the Union (later Republic) of South Africa. After World War I, Britain secured mandates to German East Africa, part of the Cameroons, part of Togo, German South-West Africa, Mesopotamia, Palestine, and part of the German Pacific islands. Britain gradually evolved a system of self-government for some colonies after the U.S. gained independence, as set forth in Lord Durham's report of 1839. Dominion status was given to Canada (1867), Australia (1901), New Zealand (1907), the Union of South Africa (1910), and the Irish Free State (1921). Britain declared war on Germany in 1914 on behalf of the entire empire; after World War I the dominions signed the peace treaties themselves and joined the League of Nations as independent states. In 1931 the Statute of Westminster recognized them as independent countries "within the British Empire," referring to the "British Commonwealth of Nations," and from 1949, the Commonwealth of Nations. The British Empire, therefore, developed into the Commonwealth in the mid-20th century, as former British dependencies obtained sovereignty but retained ties to the United Kingdom.
At its apogee, around 1920, the British empire was the largest ever known, reputed to cover a quarter of the world's land area, and a fifth of its population. Like all mighty oaks, this one had a tiny origin. It grew out of the seafaring voyages of the Tudor age. The first British colony was Virginia, settled in 1585, but not for long. A ship returning four years later found that the colonists had disappeared. In 1607 the colony was re-established, and survived. Other places were also colonized, especially some Caribbean islands. Trading posts were established in India.

It was mainly a commercial empire, run by chartered monopoly companies, and defended by the Royal Navy. Britain made sure its benefits accrued to her exclusively, by a series of Navigation Acts passed in the mid-17th cent. to prevent the colonies dealing with anyone else. The Seven Years War saw Britain take control of much of India (1756-7). That marked the peak of what later came to be called the ‘first’ British empire, which came to an end with the rebellion of the thirteen American colonies in 1776.

The loss of America (except Canada) threatened the British empire as a whole. In fact, however, it continued to expand. Even while America was being lost, Captain Cook was sniffing out new possibilities inthe antipodes. The first colony there, New South Wales, was established in 1788. Sierra Leone in west Africa was established as a home for freed slaves atthe same time. Other gains— Trinidad, Malta, Gibraltar, the Cape of Good Hope—were made as a result of the French Revolutionary wars.