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DMFParadox -> RE: What do it takes to become a pro domme? (10/25/2010 3:34:22 PM)
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quote:
Kinky guys have to bring their A-game to dating quote:
ORIGINAL: AAkasha
quote:
ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
I really have no idea how I formulated the Rules I Live By. Books? Home, obviously. I knew how to do the formal place setting before I learned it in school, so who KNOWS about that. I can't honestly say that knowing the difference between the shrimp fork and the lemon fork has served me all that well... I come from Italian farmers, so it's not like we were doing that stuff on the home front!
I love the Miss Manners column (big surprise) and it remains popular still because folks are just not SURE what to do in oddball situations, or even normal ones. If that wasn't relevant, she wouldn't be nationally syndicated, right? And thanks, Peon, for differentiating manners from etiquette---though I am probably too well versed in both! The whole point of manners---the knowing when NOT to speak---is keeping society lubricated, so we don't kill each other. Truly, no one cares if you use your salad fork to eat your entree, especially if you are at a place that just gives you two identical forks. Why mention it?
This brings me to the issue of COURTESY. Amazingly, it's not a cross cultural thing, either. While in Rome, I gave up my seat on the bus to an elderly person. My cousin looked surprised, then said something about "for saint sylvester" and understood. (I didn't, but whatever). In my world, we were taught to respect the elders, hold doors, carry packages, all that rubbish. [;)] When did that go out of fashion? I remember courtesy being a gender-free thing, too, offered to everyone. Kind of like "hospitality", an idea that is obviously disintegrating!
I sound all ranty, so I think I will stop here. I am glad that I don't date. It must be hideous!
How IS it that my 25 yr old friend walked me to my car without even thinking twice, while the 47 yr old couldn't be bothered?
This -- and, also, how about being intuitive, "in tune" and reading cues from the women you are courting? I have to be engaged in a variety of social/professional situations with people of all levels and backgrounds, and I'm constantly working my internal brain to figure out how I can engage them, facilitate comfort and communicate with them in a manner that's receptive. It's not brain surgery; but it requires that I think about them, not me, when I try to make things positive for both of us. Where did I learn about the importance of all this? I'm guessing high school? In the hit-or-miss dating games, learning to flirt, learning to read body language and cues.
Beyond things like reading about etiquette or dating or whatever, men can (should) be learning by observing and hearing what works for their male peer and role models. Who are these role models? When I hear about the sorry excuses some sub men bring to the table in the form of "courting" or "first dates" I am surprised. Or, is it that sub men, in their fantasy, think that "freedom from courting" is part of being submissive -- and that includes BOTH being the pursuer, or alternatively being very engaging "prey"? You have to be one or the other. you don't get to skate free because you gave yourself a sub label.
Kinky guys have to bring their A-game to dating, just as joe vanilla guy, if not more. For submissive men, being submissive and dating a dominant woman (in the early stages) doesn't mean freedom from the rituals of courtship at its most common and basic level.
Akasha
The problem is more complex than just being courteous. Different standards of courtesy work for different situations.
For good or ill, when it comes to women... Breaking the rules is often a better plan than keeping to them. Or sometimes, inventing new 'courtesies' on the spot. Being oblivious is sometimes more attractive than paying too much attention. All those jokes men make about the "Rules of Women?" There's a reason - because sometimes, you're fucking irrational. Not always, but often enough for it to be a real problem.
Case in point: http://home.online.no/~warnckew/jokes/women-rules.html
If you have ever quoted these or thought of them as actually funny, then get upset when men display lack of 'courtesy', die in a fire. Because you're obviously too bent on self-mutilation by proxy to live, and it would be better for your proxy if you just went away.
If you as a dominant female argue that this does not apply to you because you don't behave this way, don't forget that you don't live in a vacuum. You're paying the price for the misbehavior of other women. So don't expect men to 'know better', because there is no real standard that works. Tell them what works for you, be consistent, and you may train a submissive man the right way for you. Be aware that if they try to expand that gentlemanly behavior to other women, they can and will be punished for their largesse, so you're essentially ruining them for other women. Don't let it bother you.
As a dominant man that does appreciate courtesy, I still have issues training women on the idea, even when it's my own behavior I'm setting a standard for. It's amazing what women will consider a sign of weakness if you're not careful. So I find it works best to do ninja courtesy. Ignore the woman's comfort 80-90% of the time, then surprise her by noticing something she thought I'd missed, making a small gesture such as lifting a bag or offering to buy a coffee if we pass by a stand. The rest of the time I spend on being interested in the rest of the world, 'rewarding' the girl with my attention when she says or does something I like.
In professional situations, courtesy is mandatory. But in seduction, it's almost mandatory to do away with it. Not completely, but you just can't let a woman get the idea that you'll automatically do things for her; it seems to be a massive turn off, even with supposedly 'dominant' women. Illogical in the extreme, but I'm going on hard-learned experience.
You ask why the 47 year old won't do something the 25 year old would... I'd say it's because he learned better. The youngin' still has some illusions of a sane world to cling to.
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