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ideas to improve US economy - 10/19/2010 12:10:33 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Lately it seems that all politicians want to do is point fingers and play the blame game. Who cares whose fault it was? Some of us are more concerned with how to improve the situation.  
 
STIMULUS
 
With the stipulation that all new jobs created with stimulus money must be created in the US and remain in the US permanently.
 
BAIL OUTS 

Companies can only get bailed out in exchange for bringing jobs back to the US and keeping them in the US.

UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

If health care was non profit and tied to all taxable income instead of employers being forced to share the cost, companies that outsource work to other countries to avoid paying health insurance premiums would no longer have reason to do so.


Do you think any of these ideas would help the US economy? Why or why not? What are some of your ideas?  
 


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Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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RE: ideas to improve US economy - 10/19/2010 1:17:36 PM   
Jaybeee


Posts: 532
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline 		Pretty damn obvious - cut "defence" spending in half, and reallocate it in income tax cuts.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
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RE: ideas to improve US economy - 10/19/2010 1:26:40 PM   
hertz


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Joined: 8/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee

Pretty damn obvious - cut "defence" spending in half, and reallocate it in income tax cuts.


This.

I'm not an American citizen so my priorities are obviously going to be W, R, O, N, G, but I think cutting defence spending is an excellent idea - put the money into Healthcare.

(in reply to Jaybeee)
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RE: ideas to improve US economy - 10/19/2010 1:39:22 PM   
DCWoody


Posts: 1401
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline 		Newsflash: Protectionism is not a good idea. It is a bad idea. I'd argue that a land value tax would help prevent future house price bubbles.....but I argue for that in all situations anyway, so....

Most obvious problem is illegal immigrants working and using public services. But with such a huge border & nation, the only way to really stop this is to allow legal immigration (it's not like you're stuck for space)....but I can't see that being popular. So could just try targeting the employers of illegals more intensely.

Oh, and legalise weed, shrooms, xtc. But that ain't gonna happen.

(in reply to hertz)
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RE: ideas to improve US economy - 10/19/2010 1:41:16 PM   
Jaybeee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee

Pretty damn obvious - cut "defence" spending in half, and reallocate it in income tax cuts.


This.

I'm not an American citizen so my priorities are obviously going to be W, R, O, N, G, but I think cutting defence spending is an excellent idea - put the money into Healthcare.


I'm not an American either (though I think that's all the more reason my suggestions would be R,I,G,H,T!!!), but apparently healthcare is a bit of a black hole over there, I've heard horror stories about $10 for a couple of Aspirins, in Miami they bought several million worth of MRI kit that had to be scrapped 2 weeks after being installed.

(in reply to hertz)
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RE: ideas to improve US economy - 10/19/2010 2:08:27 PM   
hertz


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quote:

I've heard horror stories about $10 for a couple of Aspirins, in Miami they bought several million worth of MRI kit that had to be scrapped 2 weeks after being installed.


That can't be right... The free market system is designed for maximum efficiency.

(in reply to Jaybeee)
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RE: ideas to improve US economy - 10/19/2010 2:36:30 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

quote:

I've heard horror stories about $10 for a couple of Aspirins


That can't be right... The free market system is designed for maximum efficiency.



It most likely is right, but its extremely deceptive. That is not the cost of the aspirin alone. It includes an allocated cost for the attending physician, the nurse and the pharmacy personnel, all involved in the process.

_____________________________

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and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to hertz)
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RE: ideas to improve US economy - 10/19/2010 2:39:22 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee

Pretty damn obvious - cut "defence" spending in half, and reallocate it in income tax cuts.


That's a good one. Why do we *still* have Troops in S. Korea and Germany for 60 years now?
They should be brought home and deployed along our border with Mexico, a twofer.
Also, get us out of all those "free-trade" deals that are just "outsourcing" deals in disguise.
We need to start manufacturing things in this country again! Let the suits drive Cadillacs instead of Mercedes Benz's. Greed is wanting 6,000% profits instead of 600 % profits.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Jaybeee)
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RE: ideas to improve US economy - 10/19/2010 2:42:45 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Lately it seems that all politicians want to do is point fingers and play the blame game. Who cares whose fault it was? Some of us are more concerned with how to improve the situation.  
 
STIMULUS
 
With the stipulation that all new jobs created with stimulus money must be created in the US and remain in the US permanently.
 
BAIL OUTS 

Companies can only get bailed out in exchange for bringing jobs back to the US and keeping them in the US.

UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

If health care was non profit and tied to all taxable income instead of employers being forced to share the cost, companies that outsource work to other countries to avoid paying health insurance premiums would no longer have reason to do so.


Do you think any of these ideas would help the US economy? Why or why not? What are some of your ideas?  
 



No need to put stipulations on permanent jobs created by stimulus money...there is no such thing.
No company should be bailed out.
If health care had always been non-profit life expectancy would still be in the 60s (great for Social Security!). Are you prepared to forego those kinds of advances and lower the quality of those willing to enter the profession in exchange for the dubious benefits of being "non-profit"? At least youre headed in the right direction...health care should not be an employer issue at all. Remove the tax incentives for employer provided health care and replace them with effective individual spending accounts, free up competition amongst insurers, get some tort reform that is reasonable but doesnt create moral hazard on the doc's side and you have everything you need to bend the cost curve down...not up, the way Blow-care pushes it.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
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RE: ideas to improve US economy - 10/19/2010 4:56:56 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Lately it seems that all politicians want to do is point fingers and play the blame game. Who cares whose fault it was? Some of us are more concerned with how to improve the situation.  
 
STIMULUS
 
With the stipulation that all new jobs created with stimulus money must be created in the US and remain in the US permanently.
 
BAIL OUTS 

Companies can only get bailed out in exchange for bringing jobs back to the US and keeping them in the US.

UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

If health care was non profit and tied to all taxable income instead of employers being forced to share the cost, companies that outsource work to other countries to avoid paying health insurance premiums would no longer have reason to do so.

Do you think any of these ideas would help the US economy? Why or why not? What are some of your ideas?  



DBG, I don't trust the concept of permanence,  It's way too easy to weasel around that.  I have never heard of permanent jobs anyway.

I agree with willbe, that bailouts are a horrid idea.  To begin placing stipulations on them is to accept them as a part of life, and I do NOT want to go there.

That said, I wish I had some positive ideas.  I'd like to work toward cutting government spending and working back to a balanced budget, but we as a nation can not produce for less than China or Vietnam.  I'd like to say that we need to emphasize our core competencies but damned if I know what they are.  My father suggested the moviemaking industry but Bollywood is becoming a factor and I can easily see other nations developing moviemaking capabilities and paying far less than we do.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
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RE: ideas to improve US economy - 10/19/2010 5:31:04 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

That said, I wish I had some positive ideas.  I'd like to work toward cutting government spending and working back to a balanced budget, but we as a nation can not produce for less than China or Vietnam.  I'd like to say that we need to emphasize our core competencies but damned if I know what they are. 


It really isnt that complicated (to identify how, not to accomplish!)

There are only two ways to compete...provide superior quality at the same or justifiably higher price or lower the cost of doing business to provide the same or justifiably lower qualtiy at a lower price.

Anything else must inevitably lower our standard of living relative to the competitions'.

How do you provide superior quality that justifies the cost? Unfortunately quality vs value is "eye of the beholder". Some people think that cheap tech support from Pakistan is quite sufficient compared to more expensive tech support from the US. Some people think that monitoring their children's play with cheaper toys is worth the risk of lead paint in those toys. It is extremely difficult and expensive to prove superior quality, especially in the short run.

How do you lower the cost of doing business (without lowering effective wages )? Lower taxes, less onerous regulation, a realistic energy policy that utilizes our natural resources instead of relying on foreign sources and lowering quality (ie capitalize on the competitors difficulty in proving higher quality).

Isolationism cannot possibly raise the standard of living, it can only result in paying more for the same products and stifling the competition, eliminating the need for domestic producers to become more efficient or increase quality.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: ideas to improve US economy - 10/19/2010 8:44:38 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

That said, I wish I had some positive ideas.  I'd like to work toward cutting government spending and working back to a balanced budget, but we as a nation can not produce for less than China or Vietnam.  I'd like to say that we need to emphasize our core competencies but damned if I know what they are. 


It really isnt that complicated (to identify how, not to accomplish!)

There are only two ways to compete...provide superior quality at the same or justifiably higher price or lower the cost of doing business to provide the same or justifiably lower qualtiy at a lower price.

Anything else must inevitably lower our standard of living relative to the competitions'.

How do you provide superior quality that justifies the cost? Unfortunately quality vs value is "eye of the beholder". Some people think that cheap tech support from Pakistan is quite sufficient compared to more expensive tech support from the US. Some people think that monitoring their children's play with cheaper toys is worth the risk of lead paint in those toys. It is extremely difficult and expensive to prove superior quality, especially in the short run.

How do you lower the cost of doing business (without lowering effective wages )? Lower taxes, less onerous regulation, a realistic energy policy that utilizes our natural resources instead of relying on foreign sources and lowering quality (ie capitalize on the competitors difficulty in proving higher quality).

Isolationism cannot possibly raise the standard of living, it can only result in paying more for the same products and stifling the competition, eliminating the need for domestic producers to become more efficient or increase quality.


Willbeur, "domestic producers" are becomming extinct because of the lack of "protectionism." If "we" don't "protect" the U.S. who will?
As for raising the standard of living, the poor in this country are in "survival" mode right now.
Right now you can go to Target and pay $16 for a shirt that cost 30 cents to produce in some overseas sweatshop, that's "isolationism?"
When may we expect Washington to start "protecting" us from all this "outsourcing?" Or maybe they think U.S. workers can "compete" against workers making $5 a day?
The pendulum has swung way too far in the other direction.
I for one would *welcome* some isolationism and protectionism from Washington! They've done a piss poor job so far and I really don't see an end to this reccession that we're in right now.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: ideas to improve US economy - 10/19/2010 9:25:46 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

The pendulum has swung way too far in the other direction.
I for one would *welcome* some isolationism and protectionism from Washington! They've done a piss poor job so far and I really don't see an end to this reccession that we're in right now.


Well, protectionism/isolationism would get you no end to the subsequent recession in your lifetime.

Eliminate that whole uncertainty thing.

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: ideas to improve US economy - 10/20/2010 1:22:14 AM   
Fellow


Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Well, protectionism/isolationism would get you no end to the subsequent recession in your lifetime.

I believe just the opposite: introduction of fair trade policies are essential. Without them US will decay into depression.
Here is the argument:





Attachment (1)

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RE: ideas to improve US economy - 10/20/2010 4:44:05 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

That said, I wish I had some positive ideas.  I'd like to work toward cutting government spending and working back to a balanced budget, but we as a nation can not produce for less than China or Vietnam.  I'd like to say that we need to emphasize our core competencies but damned if I know what they are. 


It really isnt that complicated (to identify how, not to accomplish!)

There are only two ways to compete...provide superior quality at the same or justifiably higher price or lower the cost of doing business to provide the same or justifiably lower qualtiy at a lower price.

Anything else must inevitably lower our standard of living relative to the competitions'.

How do you provide superior quality that justifies the cost? Unfortunately quality vs value is "eye of the beholder". Some people think that cheap tech support from Pakistan is quite sufficient compared to more expensive tech support from the US. Some people think that monitoring their children's play with cheaper toys is worth the risk of lead paint in those toys. It is extremely difficult and expensive to prove superior quality, especially in the short run.

How do you lower the cost of doing business (without lowering effective wages )? Lower taxes, less onerous regulation, a realistic energy policy that utilizes our natural resources instead of relying on foreign sources and lowering quality (ie capitalize on the competitors difficulty in proving higher quality).

Isolationism cannot possibly raise the standard of living, it can only result in paying more for the same products and stifling the competition, eliminating the need for domestic producers to become more efficient or increase quality.


your typical "standard of living" argument always gives me a laugh. Do you suppose we have the highest standard of living in the world? Hell, I will even give you that. We do. But, for argument sakes lets compare us versus Norway. How many weeks vacation is typical in each country? Do Norwegians travel outside of their own country? How about education. Do Norwegians have a good system of education? Health Care? Cars? Phones?....etc etc etc. You can be a protectionist and socialist society and do quite well in this world. There is more than one way to live happily. People here need to open their eyes.

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RE: ideas to improve US economy - 10/20/2010 5:00:03 AM   
DCWoody


Posts: 1401
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Status: offline 		Is Norway protectionist? That's news to me...either way, Norway's a bad example, they're stinking rich cos they've got a shittonne of oil.

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RE: ideas to improve US economy - 10/20/2010 5:13:08 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		Pick any you want out of the Scandanavian Countries. Hell, take your country. How many weeks mandated holiday do you have? Do you not have flights going to nice destinations loaded up with punters every day? Not protectionist but you sure as hell aren't the US either. Do you worry for your health care? Any problem picking up your favorite book or movie?

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RE: ideas to improve US economy - 10/20/2010 5:23:00 AM   
DCWoody


Posts: 1401
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline 		Your point that USA isn't the only wealthy comfortable nation in the world is all well and good, but I reckon whatsisface does already know that :)

"Not protectionist but you sure as hell aren't the US either"....I'm not entirely sure you completely understand what protectionism is...no offense intended.
This link can be taken as a (very) rough guide to free trade vs protectionism. With high ranking=free trade, low ranking =protectionist.
http://www.weforum.org/pdf/GETR10/GETR10-Overall-Rankings.pdf
Your idea that European nations are protectionist is...strange.

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RE: ideas to improve US economy - 10/20/2010 5:26:56 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		My point was not really about protectionism. No, Willbur doesn't get it that the rest of the western world does quite nicely. My point is that there are many other countries out there that don't feel the need to compete on the that willbur says that is needed. They take a different tact entirely to the whole problem.

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RE: ideas to improve US economy - 10/20/2010 9:35:56 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		I think Wilbur's classic was describing Lichtenstein as the model for a libertarian utopia. Bit of a dropped bollock, that. A country with a population barely bigger than that of London, no armed forces and an agreement with Austria to incarcerate their prison population for them is not going to have much of its economic model that could feasibly be applied to the 'States, is it?

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