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RE: ideas to improve US economy - 10/20/2010 12:21:11 PM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Lately it seems that all politicians want to do is point fingers and play the blame game. Who cares whose fault it was? Some of us are more concerned with how to improve the situation.

STIMULUS

With the stipulation that all new jobs created with stimulus money must be created in the US and remain in the US permanently.

BAIL OUTS

Companies can only get bailed out in exchange for bringing jobs back to the US and keeping them in the US.

UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

If health care was non profit and tied to all taxable income instead of employers being forced to share the cost, companies that outsource work to other countries to avoid paying health insurance premiums would no longer have reason to do so.

Do you think any of these ideas would help the US economy? Why or why not? What are some of your ideas?

No need to put stipulations on permanent jobs created by stimulus money...there is no such thing.
No company should be bailed out.
If health care had always been non-profit life expectancy would still be in the 60s (great for Social Security!). Are you prepared to forego those kinds of advances and lower the quality of those willing to enter the profession in exchange for the dubious benefits of being "non-profit"? At least youre headed in the right direction...health care should not be an employer issue at all. Remove the tax incentives for employer provided health care and replace them with effective individual spending accounts, free up competition amongst insurers, get some tort reform that is reasonable but doesnt create moral hazard on the doc's side and you have everything you need to bend the cost curve down...not up, the way Blow-care pushes it.

You know Willbeur, it's getting to the point where I don't even want to waste the time anymore.

All you ever do is repeat the same nonsense that you have been proven wrong on countless times by countless posters.

So let's just take one of your claims, that life expectancy would be in the 60's if we had non-profit health care.

Numerous posters have shown you that many countries with single-payer systems have greater life expectancies than the United States.

So for once, why don't you surprise me and provide some facts to back up your statement.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 10/20/2010 12:29:04 PM >

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

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RE: ideas to improve US economy - 10/20/2010 2:26:08 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

quote:

Well, protectionism/isolationism would get you no end to the subsequent recession in your lifetime.

I believe just the opposite: introduction of fair trade policies are essential. Without them US will decay into depression.

That's not the opposite at all--it's a separate issue.

Of course fair trade policies are important. But the opposite certainly isn't shutting down trade by closing trade off, losing our foreign markets and paying more for domestic production.

(in reply to Fellow)

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RE: ideas to improve US economy - 10/20/2010 6:45:17 PM

defiantbadgirl

Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

If health care had always been non-profit life expectancy would still be in the 60s

If that's the case, would you mind explaining why life expectency is higher in countries with universal health care than in the US? Expensive for profit health insurance premiums are motivating companies to outsource jobs overseas. Expensive for profit health insurance premiums are motivating companies to get rid of older employees and refuse to hire older workers. It's called age discrimination which is illegal, but difficult to prove. The fact that most US states are "at will" states doesn't help the situation. Unfortunately, few people can afford outrageous for profit health insurance premiums that aren't tied to employment. As long as health insurance is tied to employment, age discrimination will continue. Universal health care is the only way to make health care that's not tied to employment affordable. Also, health insurance companies with the goal of maximizing profits are far more likely to refuse to pay for life saving treatments than the federal or state government. Let for profit health insurance companies make their money insuring for cosmetic procedures so their denials don't kill anyone. All medically necessary health care should be non-profit and covered under a universal health care system.

_____________________________

Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.

Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

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RE: ideas to improve US economy - 10/20/2010 6:56:18 PM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Lately it seems that all politicians want to do is point fingers and play the blame game. Who cares whose fault it was? Some of us are more concerned with how to improve the situation.

STIMULUS

With the stipulation that all new jobs created with stimulus money must be created in the US and remain in the US permanently.

BAIL OUTS

Companies can only get bailed out in exchange for bringing jobs back to the US and keeping them in the US.

UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

If health care was non profit and tied to all taxable income instead of employers being forced to share the cost, companies that outsource work to other countries to avoid paying health insurance premiums would no longer have reason to do so.

Do you think any of these ideas would help the US economy? Why or why not? What are some of your ideas?

No need to put stipulations on permanent jobs created by stimulus money...there is no such thing.
No company should be bailed out.
If health care had always been non-profit life expectancy would still be in the 60s (great for Social Security!). Are you prepared to forego those kinds of advances and lower the quality of those willing to enter the profession in exchange for the dubious benefits of being "non-profit"? At least youre headed in the right direction...health care should not be an employer issue at all. Remove the tax incentives for employer provided health care and replace them with effective individual spending accounts, free up competition amongst insurers, get some tort reform that is reasonable but doesnt create moral hazard on the doc's side and you have everything you need to bend the cost curve down...not up, the way Blow-care pushes it.

I agree with most of this but for life expectancy under a single payer (govt.) system, the Europeans under theirs, pay about 1/3 of what we do and live 3-4 years longer. (their insurance cos already heavily compete) Also, as many advances in medical technology and pharmacy, come from Europe as does from the US. Furthermore, as far as I know, ALL single payer systems have a limit to medical civil suits I think one is $200,000 (death) plus a portion from a formula assessed upon an 'appraised' life time earnings and only upon finding of neglect.

But fees and income are in many cases...also regulated. Even drug prices and more are regulated. The 'free market' and the constant incentive for the highest returns creates prices where in the US a head/shoulders MRI is $1,500...in Japan for example, $100. IN Japan and others also...there is no waiting for many basic services even many surgeries. We have subsidized Cadillac prices for drugs and MD's and making millions.

I believe in a truly free market but why do we keep harping on it when we know for 30-40 years...the plutocracy and those who profit...want no part of it ? Govt., single-payer takes health-care off business and patient ledgers. Then we go after any so-called efficiencies.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

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