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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/25/2010 7:02:11 PM   
DMFParadox


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Sorry,but that is what the Constitution is for there are ample protection inherent in our system of laws to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.
I'm not buying that one at all.....certainly not for justification for rebellion,sedition or insurrection.We have elections to address the direction of gov't ...we have courts to seek redress against the overreaching of that gov't.
There is nothing sick or wrong with the form of the gov't.


My point is that without spending a good portion of your life studying the legal system, you can't really say this with any authority. All you have to go by is what teachers and authority figures tell you.

If you spend any amount of time studying case law, you start to run into situations where you're banging your head against the wall, tears coming out of your eyes, wondering how judges can be so stupid. They're not, of course; many of them are among the most perceptive and sophisticated specimens our country can produce. But they, too, are trapped by case law, in an unbroken chain that runs backwards for centuries.

Changes to this law have been patchwork and spit on rusty pipes, and the system is failing. It's got some life left in it, to be sure, but the clock is ticking. And the reason isn't that the laws are incorrect, or unjustified; it's that it is just too much for any one human to take in. Yet, humans are running the system. And every year, the leaks are getting worse, police and legal entities are getting more frustrated, and our jails are getting bigger.

Our jails have more than five times the world average of inmates, going by percent of population. When released, convicts have a threadbare support system; and we treat them like societal lepers. The return rate is phenomenal. Fucking RUSSIANS think we've got a brutal and inhumane legal system. That doesn't bother you?

I should add, nice countries think we've really got a brutal and inhumane legal system. Swedes. Canadians. Irish. Hell, Germans think we're a nation of sadomasochists when it comes to our penal system.


< Message edited by DMFParadox -- 10/25/2010 7:07:49 PM >

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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/25/2010 7:05:29 PM   
Icarys


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Status: offline 		Oh but your some nut-bag if you bring it up. Only the loony can see that kind of shit going on. 

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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/25/2010 7:15:07 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Yeah...I'm brainwashed.What the fuck is wrong with me,why do I get upset when right wing assholes start hinting that insurrection is a viable option as we head to the polls?


mike,

I think here is your basic misapprehension.

The way I, and many others interpret his remark is not as a threat (as you seem to do) but as a warning.

The fact is that a large number of American citizens believe that the government (and the parties which directly control it) is out of control, regardless of which party is in charge at the particular moment.

Many of us are going to give the Republicans a chance this election, but I suspect that it's a qualified approval.

While some believe that the Democrats are God's gift to the country, and that the government is the only method to ensure societal "equality", many of us believe (as the founders did) that government is a beast to be chained, starved, and watched closely.

And, just like the founders, we believe that it is "The People" who are the final guarantors of our own freedoms.

Many of us believe that the average citizen is already a slave.  A slave to taxes, regulations, and constant intrusions into our lives.  How many laws did you break today?  Probably several, and the only reason you aren't in jail is because you haven't come to the attention of a prosecutor.  Yet.

Perhaps you do not believe it will get worse.  Perhaps we will reach an equilibrium of sorts, where we are all dissatisfied to an extent, but not angry enough to do much else.

This election may be a turning point, one way or another, regardless of who is in power. 

If the Democrats do not sit up and take notice of the voice of the population, then we'll give the Republicans a chance.

If the Republicans do not take notice, we may give a third party a chance.

If nothing seems to be able to put the muzzle back on the beast, then many will doubtless look towards historical precedents and justifications to find other ways to tame the out-of-control nature of government.

That's in the cards, no matter what happens, and always has been, just like it was in the '60s and '70s when it was the left that protested, burned buildings, threw bombs and killed people.

Don't like it?  Then pay some frigging attention to what we are saying.

It's a sincere warning from some of the people running for office, and some of the people who are raising their voices right now.  None of us want it, we all think it would be catastrophic, but we all recognize that it at some time it may be the only course of action available.

Again ...a warning ... not a threat.

Firm

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 10/25/2010 7:18:54 PM >

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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/25/2010 7:22:33 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline 		Well put.

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submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/25/2010 7:28:59 PM   
Owner59


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Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		The fact is that a larger number of American citizens think we`re doing fine.


You should bring your beef to Newscorp for misleading your large number of American citizens.That or we`ll put you in front of the death panel on the way to the FEMA death camp for your Obama indoctrination and re-education.


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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/25/2010 7:33:43 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

The fact is that a larger number of American citizens think we`re doing fine.

Do you have the slightest clue how many people in the States actually supported the War of Independence from Great Britian?  How many remained Tories?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

You should bring your beef to Newscorp for misleading your large number of American citizens.That or we`ll put you in front of the death panel on the way to the FEMA death camp for your Obama indoctrination and re-education.

If this remains the attitude of the left, and the Democrats, then the freight train will be a shitting surprise when it comes down that track.

Firm


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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/25/2010 7:36:29 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

How many laws did you break today? Probably several, and the only reason you aren't in jail is because you haven't come to the attention of a prosecutor. Yet.



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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/25/2010 7:39:03 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

How many laws did you break today? Probably several, and the only reason you aren't in jail is because you haven't come to the attention of a prosecutor. Yet.





If you don't understand my meaning, I'd suggest that someone like DMFParadox would do a better job of explaining it to you.

Firm


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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/25/2010 7:40:26 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

It's a sincere warning from some of the people running for office, and some of the people who are raising their voices right now. None of us want it, we all think it would be catastrophic, but we all recognize that it at some time it may be the only course of action available.

Again ...a warning ... not a threat.


Alright. So let's say the Rambo Nation gets its way, guns blazing.

Still comes back to actual plans for governing, actual solutions.

Why the silly rifle rhetoric? Because "We'll put America back to the 18th century!" probably won't work well as a campaign slogan.

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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/25/2010 7:41:26 PM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

How many laws did you break today? Probably several, and the only reason you aren't in jail is because you haven't come to the attention of a prosecutor. Yet.





If you don't understand my meaning, I'd suggest that someone like DMFParadox would do a better job of explaining it to you.

Firm


I understand your meaning just fine.

I just think you're full of shit.

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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/25/2010 7:53:46 PM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		Indeed...that was well put Firm.....and that is exactly why I am pissed off.Your post is it,in a nut shell.The right "warns" the left ,prior to an election,that they should watch theirp's and q's lest they get the right too upset.This is coming from the mainstream,,,it is served up with differing levels of subtleness,declared in different ways.....but the point is gotten across.
Is that kind of behavior not a subversion of our rights in and of itself ?.....am I or others not supposed to keep these dire projections/warnings in our mind as we pick our represenatives?
And than to top it all off you couch it in some sort of rebelllion legacy right handed down by our founders.Claiming the right to tear asunder that which they gave birth to due to political dissatisfaction.Lincoln's suspension of habeas was overturned by the Court....Lincoln's action took place during a civil war.....The court ruled that the instruments of governance were still in place...therefor the extraordinary conditions that would allow a President to contraveen the Costitution were not ,in fact,in place.
Your crowd beleive that political dissatisfaction is founding father blessed justification for insurrection?....The Founding Fathers,the men that produced an instrument so fine as to hold a war time/civil war Presidents powers in check during a crisis are shining a grateful eye on your revolutioin ?
Be honest about it....just admit that you are all angry, in possession of too many guns and too much time on your hands.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/25/2010 7:54:02 PM   
Icarys


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quote:

Why the silly rifle rhetoric?

I think he's made it pretty clear that it's not something he would look forward to nor has he said he would engage..As far as I can tell he's just making observations.

< Message edited by Icarys -- 10/25/2010 7:55:08 PM >

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/25/2010 7:56:40 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

Why the silly rifle rhetoric?

I think he's made it pretty clear that it's not something he would look forward to nor has he said he would engage..As far as I can tell he's just making observations.

And Icarys, this is the very root of the problem.

They are not listening, and what they hear, they incorrectly interpret.

How can is it even possible to get across to them the concerns?

It does not bode well for the future, methinks.

Firm


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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/25/2010 7:56:59 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Indeed...that was well put Firm.....and that is exactly why I am pissed off.Your post is it,in a nut shell.The right "warns" the left ,prior to an election,that they should watch theirp's and q's lest they get the right too upset.This is coming from the mainstream,,,it is served up with differing levels of subtleness,declared in different ways.....but the point is gotten across.
Is that kind of behavior not a subversion of our rights in and of itself ?.....am I or others not supposed to keep these dire projections/warnings in our mind as we pick our represenatives?
And than to top it all off you couch it in some sort of rebelllion legacy right handed down by our founders.Claiming the right to tear asunder that which they gave birth to due to political dissatisfaction.Lincoln's suspension of habeas was overturned by the Court....Lincoln's action took place during a civil war.....The court ruled that the instruments of governance were still in place...therefor the extraordinary conditions that would allow a President to contraveen the Costitution were not ,in fact,in place.
Your crowd beleive that political dissatisfaction is founding father blessed justification for insurrection?....The Founding Fathers,the men that produced an instrument so fine as to hold a war time/civil war Presidents powers in check during a crisis are shining a grateful eye on your revolutioin ?
Be honest about it....just admit that you are all angry, in possession of too many guns and too much time on your hands.

Why does it seem your trying to make this about Firm?


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/25/2010 7:59:20 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

How can is it even possible to get across to them the concerns?

I'm sure that's rhetorical.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/25/2010 8:00:01 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		What the fuck is your problem ?...a few posts ago it was about you....Firm is engaging me in discourse and I am responding....Do you see a personal attack in that?
Firm can take care of himself...he's a big boy.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/25/2010 8:02:29 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

What the fuck is your problem ?...a few posts ago it was about you....Firm is engaging me in discourse and I am responding....Do you see a personal attack in that?
Firm can take care of himself...he's a big boy.

I see false accusations when it's obvious your not understanding what he's saying. Just bringing it up. Does that upset you too?


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/25/2010 8:09:14 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		You are amusing,rest assured you,nor anyone else has upset me.....on the other hand the use of the Founding Fathers to rationalise and justify this bullshit is a little much.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/25/2010 8:13:51 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

You are amusing,rest assured you,nor anyone else has upset me.....on the other hand the use of the Founding Fathers to rationalise and justify this bullshit is a little much.

Good man..Take a deep breath and relax. Then take a jog over to google and read about them.

In case you missed reading some of my other posts..I don't condone what this guy did if it is about getting his party into office. I too am just making observations. Yet I can surely see where people are getting the "removal of government by armed force if necessary" from.. Hell its plain to see for anyone that cracks open closed eyes.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

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Profile   Post #: 319
RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/25/2010 8:20:42 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		"its plain to see for anyone that cracks open their eyes"....well this of course presupposes that everyone else but you and those that think like you have their eyes closed.
We are a Republic...we hold free elections,you and everyone else has the comfort that you will not suffer molestation absent due proccess.
Now explain to me again where the Founding Fathers expressly allowed for an insurrection while those rights are still guarenteed to the citizentry?
In consideration of the above stated facts show me where your rights have been so grievously abridged to justify insurrection against your lawfully elected gov't?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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