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RE: BDSM Writers - 4/26/2006 12:47:14 PM   
MHOO314


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Well Dianna hasn't so far done anything underhanded, dirty, illegal or shady--I'd alot rather throw My support to Her than some current politicians.

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RE: BDSM Writers - 4/26/2006 12:50:36 PM   
DiannaVesta


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NINASHARP


I would be glad to send lots of photos, (all originals) and also very tasteful, although most of the submissive shots are nude. Is that ok?  I also can supply alot of poetry that is very erotic, I think well written (since it is my own) and also some fantasies I've written.  I would not expect payment for this, because anyone who shelters homeless animals is alrighty in my book, besides your reputation speaks for itself. 



One question, since these are personal writings and photos, could the author be anonymous, or at least can a pseudonym be used?


MsNINA


Thank you Nina. Did I tell you I have some homeless men out in that barn too? Lol- kidding… well maybe not for long.   We have to be very careful on the types of images we display free. I know there are sites out there allowing people to freely post what they want, however it doesn’t make it legal.


By law sexually graphic content is only to be viewed by adults. The only way that is acceptable, in the yes of the law, to proof age is a credit card. Like bondage.com we have the common areas free such as articles, forums, personals, chat, etc. but to access graphic adult areas you have to use your credit card to upgrade or send a copy of your drivers license. Still, the content cost money to host and serve, especially video.  


But send them on. I’m always buying content and always love looking at pretty ladies. <wink>   The poetry can be posted in the forum, as well as stories. Some stories we will pay for if they are exclusive.    

< Message edited by DiannaVesta -- 4/26/2006 12:51:16 PM >


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RE: BDSM Writers - 4/26/2006 12:53:05 PM   
LaTigresse


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spilled champagne?!?!?!?!?! OMG the HORROR!!!!! although I did just have a vision of...........never mind, its been far too long since..........some things

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RE: BDSM Writers - 4/26/2006 12:58:51 PM   
LaTigresse


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Crappy, as I have said before in other applicable forums......if there is someone willing to pay for something I have ZERO problem with someone that is offering the service. AND, since I have learned a great deal from what I have read that Dianna has written and have not paid one copper cent for any of it I don't see what your beef is at all. No one is holding you or anyone else at gun point demanding your money are they?? Just hush with the negative bull, if you don't like it then don't support it, its as simple as that. 

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RE: BDSM Writers - 4/26/2006 2:15:18 PM   
EbonyFtshGoddess


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quote:

In fact I was just on the phone with my NJ slave who is begging to order me the gear but I need to work on the trails some.


i've been in a sulkie that flipped over..LOL very undignified. and the damn thing fell on me.


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RE: BDSM Writers - 4/26/2006 2:53:53 PM   
LaTigresse


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Ohhh Ebony! ouch! I hope you were not injured too badly, neither your pride or any other wonderful parts.

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RE: BDSM Writers - 4/26/2006 3:54:23 PM   
DiannaVesta


Posts: 1087
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From: Mid-Atlantic area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

spilled champagne?!?!?!?!?! OMG the HORROR!!!!! although I did just have a vision of...........never mind, its been far too long since..........some things



I know what you're thinking. <eg>


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RE: BDSM Writers - 4/26/2006 3:59:02 PM   
DiannaVesta


Posts: 1087
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From: Mid-Atlantic area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EbonyFtshGoddess

quote:

In fact I was just on the phone with my NJ slave who is begging to order me the gear but I need to work on the trails some.


i've been in a sulkie that flipped over..LOL very undignified. and the damn thing fell on me.



Oh damn. I've never been in one not even with a horse and I own horses. I'm thinking custom cart with ATV tires? lol- seriously I'm a bit worried about the roots on the trails. The only think I could do is heavy mulch. I have plenty of trees. Just need a chipper & a half dozen slaves to move it around.

Or ride them with saddle on. I don't know if any of you remember the old Hell Fire days in NYC or The Vault, anyhow there was a guy named Danny the Wonder Pony who would saddle up, come to the club and give ladies rides. I loved doing that. Still, I think a cart would be nice and social.

How about a carriage and a team of pony boys? Maybe thats safer? Then you can come along Ebony.


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RE: BDSM Writers - 4/26/2006 6:04:12 PM   
LaTigresse


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The ATV tires are a good idea. Living in the heart of farm country there are alot of horse people around. Alot of the old guys that cannot ride any longer but want to stay involved, build carts and wagons. I have seen them built out of everything from ancient golf carts to old hay wagons with all the seats from an old van bolted on and a canopy over the top. I used to go on alot of camp-out trail rides and have seen them take those wagons over trails that made me nervous on horseback. The key is the center of gravity. The thing that always kept me from buying a little carriage to have one or two of my horses pull is the loss of control I feel behind a horse rather than on one. However...with two strong and well behaved pony boys I think that the control would definately be much less of an issue. (If they know whats good for them!)

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RE: BDSM Writers - 4/27/2006 4:04:24 AM   
DiannaVesta


Posts: 1087
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From: Mid-Atlantic area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

The ATV tires are a good idea. Living in the heart of farm country there are alot of horse people around. Alot of the old guys that cannot ride any longer but want to stay involved, build carts and wagons. I have seen them built out of everything from ancient golf carts to old hay wagons with all the seats from an old van bolted on and a canopy over the top. I used to go on alot of camp-out trail rides and have seen them take those wagons over trails that made me nervous on horseback. The key is the center of gravity. The thing that always kept me from buying a little carriage to have one or two of my horses pull is the loss of control I feel behind a horse rather than on one. However...with two strong and well behaved pony boys I think that the control would definately be much less of an issue. (If they know whats good for them!)


Exactly! My horses can have a whim and react. If one of my slaves do that there's hell to pay. hmmm but then again I've seen horses and dogs better behaved then some males.


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RE: BDSM Writers - 4/27/2006 8:53:07 AM   
EbonyFtshGoddess


Posts: 446
Joined: 1/1/2006
From: Hollywood Hills, CA
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LaTigresse
quote:

Ohhh Ebony! ouch! I hope you were not injured too badly, neither your pride or any other wonderful parts.


naaah, my pride wasn't hurt. i was waaaaaaaay more embarrassed when i fell down the stairs of my apartment building.

DiannaVesta
quote:

I don't know if any of you remember the old Hell Fire days in NYC or The Vault, anyhow there was a guy named Danny the Wonder Pony who would saddle up, come to the club and give ladies rides. I loved doing that. Still, I think a cart would be nice and social.


wow, i remember hell fire.. i never went to the vault. i think i know the guy you're talking about.. he has this shoulder riding harness thing. i met (if it's the same person).. at kink in the caribbean like a year ago. he was giving all the women rides, but he was in such high demand i never got to take him for a spin. i would like to have a club of ladies that like to ride males. i know there are pony play riding societies. and the OWK in europe will have like slave olympics sorta.. where pony races are part of the games. i have a 6'5 german pony slave.. but damn he can't run for shit. he's more like a show pony..lol he likes to prance around and shit


i got a good laugh out of the cart with ATV wheels..that would be like the surburban of sulkies.


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RE: BDSM Writers - 4/27/2006 2:16:56 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta

By law sexually graphic content is only to be viewed by adults. The only way that is acceptable, in the yes of the law, to proof age is a credit card. Like bondage.com we have the common areas free such as articles, forums, personals, chat, etc. but to access graphic adult areas you have to use your credit card to upgrade or send a copy of your drivers license. Still, the content cost money to host and serve, especially video.  


uhh ... you have a legal cite for this?  Perhaps in the CFR or USC?

FHky


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RE: BDSM Writers - 4/27/2006 4:36:32 PM   
DiannaVesta


Posts: 1087
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Mid-Atlantic area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta

By law sexually graphic content is only to be viewed by adults. The only way that is acceptable, in the yes of the law, to proof age is a credit card. Like bondage.com we have the common areas free such as articles, forums, personals, chat, etc. but to access graphic adult areas you have to use your credit card to upgrade or send a copy of your drivers license. Still, the content cost money to host and serve, especially video.  


uhh ... you have a legal cite for this?  Perhaps in the CFR or USC?

FHky




Sure do:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/coppa.htm

Look under access and verfications


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RE: BDSM Writers - 4/27/2006 5:01:44 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta

By law sexually graphic content is only to be viewed by adults. The only way that is acceptable, in the yes of the law, to proof age is a credit card. Like bondage.com we have the common areas free such as articles, forums, personals, chat, etc. but to access graphic adult areas you have to use your credit card to upgrade or send a copy of your drivers license. Still, the content cost money to host and serve, especially video.  


uhh ... you have a legal cite for this?  Perhaps in the CFR or USC?

FHky


Sure do:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/coppa.htm

Look under access and verfications



Extract:

The Children's Online Privacy Protection Rule

The Children's Online Privacy Protection Act, effective April 21, 2000, applies to the online collection of personal information from children under 13. The new rules spell out what a Web site operator must include in a privacy policy, when and how to seek verifiable consent from a parent and what responsibilities an operator has to protect children's privacy and safety online.

***

Access Verification

At a parent's request, operators must disclose the general kinds of personal information they collect online from children (for example, name, address, telephone number, email address, hobbies), as well as the specific information collected from children who visit their sites. Operators must use reasonable procedures to ensure they are dealing with the child's parent before they provide access to the child's specific information.

They can use a variety of methods to verify the parent's identity, including:
  • obtaining a signed form from the parent via postal mail or facsimile;
  • accepting and verifying a credit card number;
  • taking calls from parents on a toll-free telephone number staffed by trained personnel;
  • email accompanied by digital signature;
  • email accompanied by a PIN or password obtained through one of the verification methods above.
Operators who follow one of these procedures acting in good faith to a request for parental access are protected from liability under federal and state law for inadvertent disclosures of a child's information to someone who purports to be a parent.

***

This isn't a law about requirements to prove age for access to adult material.  It's a brief overview of the requirements of the law to allow a site owner to give information to someone who claims to be the parent of the child.  Isn' it?

The credit card isn't for age verification.  This extract is silent about how, or even if a site operator must obtain proof of age.  From my own experience, most of the time, a site simply asks for the user to tell them their birthday.

FHky



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RE: BDSM Writers - 4/27/2006 5:06:20 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
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From: Delray Beach, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta


Sure do:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/coppa.htm

Look under access and verfications


It is possible to verify the validity of a credit card number through the check digits built into the number without charging any money to the card. 

Alternatively a charge can be made against the card followed by a credit for an equal amount.

One doesn't need to make verification a profit making activity

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RE: BDSM Writers - 4/27/2006 5:10:13 PM   
Proprietrix


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The USC addresses this issue under Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter 2, Part 1, Section 231.

I've read that section at least 10 times now, and as far as I can comprehend, proof of age, for the viewing of adult content, only applies to web sites that are for profit.
I may be wrong. Perhaps someone else can translate it more accurately.



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RE: BDSM Writers - 4/27/2006 5:15:38 PM   
Proprietrix


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Ooops, I forgot to paste the USC code.


TITLE 47 > CHAPTER 5 > SUBCHAPTER II > Part I >§ 231.
Restriction of access by minors to materials commercially distributed by means of World Wide Web that are harmful to minors

(a) Requirement to restrict access
(1) Prohibited conduct
Whoever knowingly and with knowledge of the character of the material, in interstate or foreign commerce by means of the World Wide Web, makes any communication for commercial purposes that is available to any minor and that includes any material that is harmful to minors shall be fined not more than $50,000, imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both. (2) Intentional violations
In addition to the penalties under paragraph (1), whoever intentionally violates such paragraph shall be subject to a fine of not more than $50,000 for each violation. For purposes of this paragraph, each day of violation shall constitute a separate violation. (3) Civil penalty
In addition to the penalties under paragraphs (1) and (2), whoever violates paragraph (1) shall be subject to a civil penalty of not more than $50,000 for each violation. For purposes of this paragraph, each day of violation shall constitute a separate violation. (b) Inapplicability of carriers and other service providers
For purposes of subsection (a) of this section, a person shall not be considered to make any communication for commercial purposes to the extent that such person is— (1) a telecommunications carrier engaged in the provision of a telecommunications service; (2) a person engaged in the business of providing an Internet access service; (3) a person engaged in the business of providing an Internet information location tool; or (4) similarly engaged in the transmission, storage, retrieval, hosting, formatting, or translation (or any combination thereof) of a communication made by another person, without selection or alteration of the content of the communication, except that such person’s deletion of a particular communication or material made by another person in a manner consistent with subsection (c) of this section or section 230 of this title shall not constitute such selection or alteration of the content of the communication. (c) Affirmative defense
(1) Defense
It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the defendant, in good faith, has restricted access by minors to material that is harmful to minors— (A) by requiring use of a credit card, debit account, adult access code, or adult personal identification number; (B) by accepting a digital certificate that verifies age; or (C) by any other reasonable measures that are feasible under available technology. (2) Protection for use of defenses
No cause of action may be brought in any court or administrative agency against any person on account of any activity that is not in violation of any law punishable by criminal or civil penalty, and that the person has taken in good faith to implement a defense authorized under this subsection or otherwise to restrict or prevent the transmission of, or access to, a communication specified in this section. (d) Privacy protection requirements
(1) Disclosure of information limited
A person making a communication described in subsection (a) of this section— (A) shall not disclose any information collected for the purposes of restricting access to such communications to individuals 17 years of age or older without the prior written or electronic consent of—
(i) the individual concerned, if the individual is an adult; or (ii) the individual’s parent or guardian, if the individual is under 17 years of age; and
(B) shall take such actions as are necessary to prevent unauthorized access to such information by a person other than the person making such communication and the recipient of such communication. (2) Exceptions
A person making a communication described in subsection (a) of this section may disclose such information if the disclosure is— (A) necessary to make the communication or conduct a legitimate business activity related to making the communication; or (B) made pursuant to a court order authorizing such disclosure. (e) Definitions
For purposes of this subsection,[1] the following definitions shall apply:
(1) By means of the World Wide Web
The term “by means of the World Wide Web” means by placement of material in a computer server-based file archive so that it is publicly accessible, over the Internet, using hypertext transfer protocol or any successor protocol. (2) Commercial purposes; engaged in the business
(A) Commercial purposes
A person shall be considered to make a communication for commercial purposes only if such person is engaged in the business of making such communications. (B) Engaged in the business
The term “engaged in the business” means that the person who makes a communication, or offers to make a communication, by means of the World Wide Web, that includes any material that is harmful to minors, devotes time, attention, or labor to such activities, as a regular course of such person’s trade or business, with the objective of earning a profit as a result of such activities (although it is not necessary that the person make a profit or that the making or offering to make such communications be the person’s sole or principal business or source of income). A person may be considered to be engaged in the business of making, by means of the World Wide Web, communications for commercial purposes that include material that is harmful to minors, only if the person knowingly causes the material that is harmful to minors to be posted on the World Wide Web or knowingly solicits such material to be posted on the World Wide Web. (3) Internet
The term “Internet” means the combination of computer facilities and electromagnetic transmission media, and related equipment and software, comprising the interconnected worldwide network of computer networks that employ the Transmission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol or any successor protocol to transmit information. (4) Internet access service
The term “Internet access service” means a service that enables users to access content, information, electronic mail, or other services offered over the Internet, and may also include access to proprietary content, information, and other services as part of a package of services offered to consumers. Such term does not include telecommunications services. (5) Internet information location tool
The term “Internet information location tool” means a service that refers or links users to an online location on the World Wide Web. Such term includes directories, indices, references, pointers, and hypertext links. (6) Material that is harmful to minors
The term “material that is harmful to minors” means any communication, picture, image, graphic image file, article, recording, writing, or other matter of any kind that is obscene or that— (A) the average person, applying contemporary community standards, would find, taking the material as a whole and with respect to minors, is designed to appeal to, or is designed to pander to, the prurient interest; (B) depicts, describes, or represents, in a manner patently offensive with respect to minors, an actual or simulated sexual act or sexual contact, an actual or simulated normal or perverted sexual act, or a lewd exhibition of the genitals or post-pubescent female breast; and (C) taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value for minors. (7) Minor
The term “minor” means any person under 17 years of age.

_____________________________

IMO, IMHO, YMMV, AFAIK, to me, I see it as, from my perspective, it's been my experience, I only speak for myself, (and all other disclaimers here).

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RE: BDSM Writers - 4/28/2006 11:50:39 AM   
FirmhandKY


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Joined: 9/21/2004
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Thanks Proprietix, that was exactly what I was asking.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

TITLE 47 > CHAPTER 5 > SUBCHAPTER II > Part I >§ 231.
Restriction of access by minors to materials commercially distributed by means of World Wide Web that are harmful to minors

(a) Requirement to restrict access
(1) Prohibited conduct
Whoever knowingly and with knowledge of the character of the material, in interstate or foreign commerce by means of the World Wide Web, makes any communication for commercial purposes that is available to any minor and that includes any material that is harmful to minors shall be fined not more than $50,000, imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both.

...

(1) Defense
It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the defendant, in good faith, has restricted access by minors to material that is harmful to minors—
(A) by requiring use of a credit card, debit account, adult access code, or adult personal identification number;
(B) by accepting a digital certificate that verifies age; or
(C) by any other reasonable measures that are feasible under available technology.


Two key points:
1.  This covers commercial sites - but the definition of of commercial seems a little vague, later in the code.
2.  Credit card verification isn't the only way to restrict access. 

quote:



(2) Protection for use of defenses
No cause of action may be brought in any court or administrative agency against any person on account of any activity that is not in violation of any law punishable by criminal or civil penalty, and that the person has taken in good faith to implement a defense authorized under this subsection or otherwise to restrict or prevent the transmission of, or access to, a communication specified in this section.


Good faith is key.  Just because your age verification  can be spoofed, doesn't mean you will get into trouble.

quote:



A person shall be considered to make a communication for commercial purposes only if such person is engaged in the business of making such communications.

(B) Engaged in the business
The term “engaged in the business” means that the person who makes a communication, or offers to make a communication, by means of the World Wide Web, that includes any material that is harmful to minors, devotes time, attention, or labor to such activities, as a regular course of such person’s trade or business, with the objective of earning a profit as a result of such activities (although it is not necessary that the person make a profit or that the making or offering to make such communications be the person’s sole or principal business or source of income). A person may be considered to be engaged in the business of making, by means of the World Wide Web, communications for commercial purposes that include material that is harmful to minors, only if the person knowingly causes the material that is harmful to minors to be posted on the World Wide Web or knowingly solicits such material to be posted on the World Wide Web.


This is the part of the code, that, if I were a lawyer, I think I could drive a semi-truck through.  If you are sponsoring a non-commerical informational website, and it is used as a funnel to your for-profit website containing commercial, adult material - it looks to me as if you may be subject to the age verification law.  I'm sure there is some case law on this subject.

But, the main point of my question was where did it say that credit card validation was the sole acceptable method of age verification.  From this cite, it's obvious that such is not the case.

Personally, I get a "bad feeling" when a site asks for my credit card info "for age verification purposes only".  I don't know the owners of such site, and feel very uncomfortable believing that nothing will be charged to my account, or my information might not be passed on to someone who will use it.

Not accusing Dianna of anything, just giving feedback about my feelings and opinions on such requests.

FHky


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: BDSM Writers - 4/29/2006 3:09:53 AM   
DiannaVesta


Posts: 1087
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Mid-Atlantic area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Thanks Proprietix, that was exactly what I was asking.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

TITLE 47 > CHAPTER 5 > SUBCHAPTER II > Part I >§ 231.
Restriction of access by minors to materials commercially distributed by means of World Wide Web that are harmful to minors

(a) Requirement to restrict access
(1) Prohibited conduct
Whoever knowingly and with knowledge of the character of the material, in interstate or foreign commerce by means of the World Wide Web, makes any communication for commercial purposes that is available to any minor and that includes any material that is harmful to minors shall be fined not more than $50,000, imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both.

...

(1) Defense
It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the defendant, in good faith, has restricted access by minors to material that is harmful to minors—
(A) by requiring use of a credit card, debit account, adult access code, or adult personal identification number;
(B) by accepting a digital certificate that verifies age; or
(C) by any other reasonable measures that are feasible under available technology.


Two key points:
1.  This covers commercial sites - but the definition of of commercial seems a little vague, later in the code.
2.  Credit card verification isn't the only way to restrict access. 

quote:



(2) Protection for use of defenses
No cause of action may be brought in any court or administrative agency against any person on account of any activity that is not in violation of any law punishable by criminal or civil penalty, and that the person has taken in good faith to implement a defense authorized under this subsection or otherwise to restrict or prevent the transmission of, or access to, a communication specified in this section.


Good faith is key.  Just because your age verification  can be spoofed, doesn't mean you will get into trouble.

quote:



A person shall be considered to make a communication for commercial purposes only if such person is engaged in the business of making such communications.

(B) Engaged in the business
The term “engaged in the business” means that the person who makes a communication, or offers to make a communication, by means of the World Wide Web, that includes any material that is harmful to minors, devotes time, attention, or labor to such activities, as a regular course of such person’s trade or business, with the objective of earning a profit as a result of such activities (although it is not necessary that the person make a profit or that the making or offering to make such communications be the person’s sole or principal business or source of income). A person may be considered to be engaged in the business of making, by means of the World Wide Web, communications for commercial purposes that include material that is harmful to minors, only if the person knowingly causes the material that is harmful to minors to be posted on the World Wide Web or knowingly solicits such material to be posted on the World Wide Web.


This is the part of the code, that, if I were a lawyer, I think I could drive a semi-truck through.  If you are sponsoring a non-commerical informational website, and it is used as a funnel to your for-profit website containing commercial, adult material - it looks to me as if you may be subject to the age verification law.  I'm sure there is some case law on this subject.

But, the main point of my question was where did it say that credit card validation was the sole acceptable method of age verification.  From this cite, it's obvious that such is not the case.

Personally, I get a "bad feeling" when a site asks for my credit card info "for age verification purposes only".  I don't know the owners of such site, and feel very uncomfortable believing that nothing will be charged to my account, or my information might not be passed on to someone who will use it.

Not accusing Dianna of anything, just giving feedback about my feelings and opinions on such requests.

FHky





wow, are you bored man? lol

How would you feel sending in a copy of your driver's license to access graphic content? Thats how we did back in the Fetish Network BBS days. Today most sits use ccbill or the like. You're credit card & personal information is never seen by the site owner.

The site is free. Theres lots ot do for free. If you want to watch graphic movies and pictures then you need a credit card. Its not a perfect law but its all we got now.


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(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: BDSM Writers - 4/29/2006 3:42:01 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta
wow, are you bored man? lol

How would you feel sending in a copy of your driver's license to access graphic content? Thats how we did back in the Fetish Network BBS days. Today most sits use ccbill or the like. You're credit card & personal information is never seen by the site owner.

The site is free. Theres lots ot do for free. If you want to watch graphic movies and pictures then you need a credit card. Its not a perfect law but its all we got now.



No, not bored.  My job requires that I read and evaluate stuff like that daily.  It's often the details that makes all the difference in the world.

I think there is a business opportunity for someone to come up with a better "age verification" scheme than credit cards.  In-the-box type thinking - such as there is only one way to do age verification - seems a little out of place among people who are suppose to be "outside of the box" types.

Plus, I dare say that I'm not the only one who refuses to give his credit card to any online adult service.

FHky

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Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to DiannaVesta)
Profile   Post #: 40
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