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RE: Communication - 10/24/2010 8:23:06 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
No matter what the question(s) are, the bottom line is that his behavior is inducing a sense of danger & risk in his sub which is going to prevent anything which I would call submission. Whether these questions are valid or reasonable or whatever in his eyes, your eyes, my eyes, or anyone else's isn't going to change the basic equation here. He's already lost his sub a fair amount and if nothing changes, is almost certain to lose her entirely. As is always true, I'm a big believer in pragmatic end results... and in this case it's not looking good.

It's not clear to me why you're putting all the responsibility on the man who is not posting.  Maybe she brought a sense of danger and risk to the relationship.  There are plenty of women with a lotttttttttttttttt of emotional baggage.  Maybe he never "had" her to lose.  Maybe she is sabotaging the relationship because she fears commitment.  Maybe she asks him whether he loves her 500 times a day.  It takes two people to generate pragmatic end results.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Communication - 10/24/2010 8:25:07 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you for the email, dfw.  I would prefer to communicate with you in public at this point.

I wish you the very best in deciding what to do next in this situation.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Communication - 10/24/2010 8:28:54 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dfwdallasdoll

Oh I do too, but this is a fresh relationship and you have to start somewhere and go forward.  I just want the Dom to communicate with me.  I feel it is so important to the connection of the relationship as a whole.  The Dom is lacking communication skills and that is probably just him.  That is why I was wondering if I should continue with him or find one that I can communicate with.  This lack of communicating is driving me "nuts" so to speak and I get frustrated.  I have told him .. please communicate with me and it just stays the same.  When I ask a question, he states I ask too many questions.  I probably do, but that is for sure a way to find out about something that is important to me or an issue with me.  It is all a learning experience, even if someone thinks they know it all.  We can all learn something "new" everyday if our mind is open to receive that information, facts, or details.  Each one of us is a different individual and have different thoughts and habits.


I wanted to address the bold sentences especially. Communication is VITAL in any relationship but especially in this type. It is important during all phases, beginning, during and forever.

If someone does not have the same communication style as me, that can be a problem. I have met people where our styles did not mesh. I am a very good communicator and they were not. Therefore alot was misinterpreted and that created problems.

My ex was a terrible communicator, never expressed his feelings unless prodded and despite being together for a very long time and being asked explicitly to change and compromise behavior, he did not, in fact, he got worse.

He used to use the "No questions" and "You ask too many questions" constantly, whenever he did not want to answer or hear something or just not be bothered.

I used to get really upset and pissed off and fight with him and then I finally realized, duh, that no matter how much you care for a guy, unless he wants to change or compromise to make the relationship better, he will NOT. To this day he does not get it that through his inattention, lack of communication and selfishness, we are not together.

As for the comment on unvoiced expectations, to me, that is part of communication, having the same goals, discussing needs and desires. You can communicate and someone could say they are hearing you, yet their failure at meeting your needs is a sign they simply heard you, but did not listen to you.

I caution you to listen to your own red flags here and not go into something with someone who may or may not meet your communication needs before you get very involved.

I am so sensitive to this topic that now, even as I am single and dating, I listen very carefully to how a man talks to me at the beginning, how the communication goes and I am finding that it is amazing how many people don't actually listen or communicate very well at all.

Sad really, but I view it as a sign of our overly distancing technology where it is easier to text a woman than talk to her.

(in reply to dfwdallasdoll)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Communication - 10/24/2010 8:32:07 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dfwdallasdoll

I have told him my needs and expectations, but not sure how much he listened to them.  Perhaps you are correct that we are not suited for one another.

I think you just hit the nail on the head by saying he doesn't know the answer to my questions. 


Everyone knows the answers to questions, he just does not want to tell you or care about telling you.

(in reply to dfwdallasdoll)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Communication - 10/24/2010 8:36:30 AM   
dfwdallasdoll


Posts: 9
Joined: 4/27/2008
Status: offline 		Thank you for your suggestions and trying to help me.   I appreciate it very much.

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Communication - 10/24/2010 8:37:09 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		You are welcome. I hope things work out however you desire.

(in reply to dfwdallasdoll)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Communication - 10/24/2010 8:50:16 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		communication is important everywhere to everyone..bdsm is not any more special or different or more important.

And imo if it's bad in the beginning it most likely won't get any better. Sure there's the exception to the case but it's very rare imo.


(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Communication - 10/24/2010 9:10:08 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

quote:

ORIGINAL: dfwdallasdoll

I have told him my needs and expectations, but not sure how much he listened to them.  Perhaps you are correct that we are not suited for one another.

I think you just hit the nail on the head by saying he doesn't know the answer to my questions. 


Everyone knows the answers to questions, he just does not want to tell you or care about telling you.


Bull. There are many questions I've been asked I didn't know the answer to. Either the question caught me off guard or, god forbid, I just plain was unsure/didn't know. Either way, I have the self confidence (at least now) to admit "I don't know." Then I follow it up with, "Give me some time to think about that, do some research, whatever applies, and I will get back to you."

Being dominant does not make a person all knowing. It only makes them dominant, and often times, the one leading the relationship.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Communication - 10/24/2010 9:28:30 AM   
MarcEsadrian


Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dfwdallasdoll

I feel communication is extremely important in any relationship but particularly in this lifestyle. It is difficult for me to understand why some do not think it is crucial to the relationship. Please tell me how important you think communication is to this lifestyle. Also if the communication is lacking at the beginning of the relationship, will it ever get in any better if the relationship gets serious? I am just curious and wondering where this might lead.


Communication, as you say, is important in any relationship. Additionally important is carry-through, and not just with rules and protocols, but in the day to day reality of leadership. Inconsistency is not just the pet peeve of dominant personalities; submissive personalities tend to dislike it, too, and I'd daresay even more so. Lack of communication and accountability leads to the silent steamroller of disorganization, stress and subversion of authority. Those who cannot say what they mean and mean what they say have no business keeping another as a servant.

That said, there is a time and place for everything, and some boundaries of information do need to be respected, particularly in the beginning. There is a certain tyranny in dealing with a would-be servant who needs to know everything, and on their terms. As a relationship progresses, so too should trust and the exchange of communication. As with most things, compatibility and common sense is pretty important. If after some time has passed you feel constantly left in the dark, set up and spun around and left without a compass so much that it causes ill feelings, trust your gut—something is amiss.

_____________________________

Omnes una manet nox

Founder, Humbled Females

(in reply to dfwdallasdoll)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Communication - 10/24/2010 9:33:36 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
It's not clear to me why you're putting all the responsibility on the man who is not posting.  Maybe she brought a sense of danger and risk to the relationship.  There are plenty of women with a lotttttttttttttttt of emotional baggage.  Maybe he never "had" her to lose.  Maybe she is sabotaging the relationship because she fears commitment.  Maybe she asks him whether he loves her 500 times a day.  It takes two people to generate pragmatic end results.
I seldom think in terms of "responsibility" the way you're implying here. I was thinking pragmatics. Whether or not it's his fault. Whether or not the questions are stupid. Whether or not anything, she's drifting away. He can either allow that to continue or not. Those are his choices. One of my firmest relationship convictions is that when your partner needs, you stand and deliver.... or don't. In both cases, one reaps the appropriate results of their decision.


_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Communication - 10/24/2010 9:43:55 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		One of my favorite quotes, "One of the single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place" George Berhnard Shaw.

He may think he is communicating his expectations and wants... You may not be listening so that you can understand him... He may not be speaking in a way that you can understand him... The failure to communicate is rarely an issue of one person in the relationship.

When we first starting interacting about 6 years ago, I had to make adjustments in my communication/listening styles and he had to make adjustments. Even now we work at making sure that we are not under the illusion that communication has taken place.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to dfwdallasdoll)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Communication - 10/24/2010 9:50:22 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
I seldom think in terms of "responsibility" the way you're implying here. I was thinking pragmatics. Whether or not it's his fault. Whether or not the questions are stupid. Whether or not anything, she's drifting away. He can either allow that to continue or not. Those are his choices. One of my firmest relationship convictions is that when your partner needs, you stand and deliver.... or don't. In both cases, one reaps the appropriate results of their decision.

He's not here, and she is.  Your statements are equally true if you substitute "she" for "he."  And yet, you don't mention the woman's part in anything you say, except as a passive billiard ball affected by the man's motion.  If she is drifting away -- and we have no idea how close they ever were at any time -- it is because both of them are moving, not just her because of things he is or is not doing.

Most of these posts, not just yours, are coming across like a feel-good fest for the OP.  I'm more from the school of "Listen up biatch: Get some advanced relationships skills pronto."


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Communication - 10/24/2010 9:54:10 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

One of my favorite quotes, "One of the single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place" George Berhnard Shaw.

He may think he is communicating his expectations and wants... You may not be listening so that you can understand him... He may not be speaking in a way that you can understand him... The failure to communicate is rarely an issue of one person in the relationship.

When we first starting interacting about 6 years ago, I had to make adjustments in my communication/listening styles and he had to make adjustments. Even now we work at making sure that we are not under the illusion that communication has taken place.

Knight's Kyra


One thing My girl hated at first was the lengths I'd go to in My explanations, whether in what I wanted or in explaining why something was done in a way I wanted done differently.... because she was only used to people 'saying' what they wanted to communicate and assuming it had been, whilst I will keep on and DEMAND feedback in her own words until I am sure she has understood what I meant... then I know what I considered important had indeed been communicated.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Communication - 10/24/2010 9:55:57 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		*nods* I see that, but that wasn't the door I'm coming out of. Honestly, it's my general impression that "it's the dom's fault" or "he's not dom" are the go-to answers here on collarme and I shun them.

This has nothing to do with that. This has do with motion happening in one half of the relationship and me seeking a counter-motion on other half. Who's fault it is needs to be discussed.... at length... between them. But this is no different than my rule for Carol and I, "Whoever gets angry first wins." Basically, if Carol is already pissed, then I have to NOT be. Whether I have a solid justification is irrelevant to the end result.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Communication - 10/24/2010 9:56:36 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse


quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

quote:

ORIGINAL: dfwdallasdoll

I have told him my needs and expectations, but not sure how much he listened to them.  Perhaps you are correct that we are not suited for one another.

I think you just hit the nail on the head by saying he doesn't know the answer to my questions. 


Everyone knows the answers to questions, he just does not want to tell you or care about telling you.


Bull. There are many questions I've been asked I didn't know the answer to. Either the question caught me off guard or, god forbid, I just plain was unsure/didn't know. Either way, I have the self confidence (at least now) to admit "I don't know." Then I follow it up with, "Give me some time to think about that, do some research, whatever applies, and I will get back to you."

Being dominant does not make a person all knowing. It only makes them dominant, and often times, the one leading the relationship.


LaT. I would never dream of assuming that someone who claimed to be dominant was all knowing about anything, ever.

That was NOT at all what I meant. What I meant was that most of the questions that arise in relationships are not of the intellectual type, but more about the relationship itself.

Any questions involving feelings, tastes, desires, wants, needs, structure, etc, that are endemic to the specific relationship...THOSE questions are ones that assuredly have an answer.

Those questions should be answered, even if one does not know how they feel, that would be the reply.

If such an emotional question caught you off guard, then I would rather hear you say that than avoid the topic altogether. As you say, confidence is knowing when to say, I really don't know, but I understand it is important to you and I will try and give you an honest appraisal of my feelings, rather than ignore the question or worse, say, stop asking or you ask too many questions. That shows avoidance, not communication.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 10/24/2010 9:58:28 AM >

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Communication - 10/24/2010 10:51:15 AM   
Nslavu


Posts: 342
Joined: 2/1/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dfwdallasdoll

I feel commuication is extremely important in any relationship but particularly in this lifestyle.  It is dfficult for me to understand why some do not think it is crucial to the relationship.  Please tell me how important you think communcation is to this lifestyle.  Also if the commuication is lacking at the beginning of the relationship, will it ever get in any better if the relationship gets serious?  I am just curious and wondering where this might lead.


Extremely important. Though I dislike questions that delay one's submission (unless some risk or fear is involved) . I do however provide questions periods. For me she would be instructed to note her questions, write them down when time permits and then we review them at chosen periods. Not all questions have immediate answers, nor immediate understanding for her, so those are left on the list until they are be resolved satisfactorily. One's that are answered, discussed and understood are stricken so a constant communication/resolution is in the works. Failure to plan, is planning to fail in my books.

This method I find, also gives me time to review her questions in writing before, as well as time to actually answer THE question she is asking rather than a knee jerk reaction to say an emotional question or reaction she had.

You can have/be submission without questions, I'm just not sure that any real depth could be attained without communication at some point, especially for women (speaking in general, but not all women, because there are some for whom communication is a low priority, rare but true in my experience)

I'm not including normal everyday questions here, those are givens... unless there's a million of them. That could get unwieldy for sure and I can only speak for myself of course. I'm sure there are men who thrive in that environment.

If it's important to you and you know it, and it certainly seems so, I would regard it as a deal breaker, since you'll not really be sated in the lack of it. Is He aware of this as well?

IMO, ( in general because there are no absolutes) there are two very basic communication needs that are evident in my experience. These also have variants in degrees of need as well. For women it is verbal, how they feel connected with another. For men it is physical, how they feel connected with another. So if you've met someone unaware of this or one who just doesn't care to feed what is basic then ... incompatible on all fronts no matter how you cut it because it negates the basic inherent way you feel connected to someone.


_____________________________

I used to love anal until I ran into people who's heads I had to remove first.

(in reply to dfwdallasdoll)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Communication - 10/24/2010 11:00:55 AM   
MIsabelah


Posts: 57
Joined: 9/7/2010
Status: offline 		To the OP: Communication is essential to all relationships- especially serious ones. Always judge your relationships on how YOU are being TREATED. Not how well they perform in bed, or how good of a dominant or submissive they may be, or this or that or this or that. Look at how you are being treated. If you are not being treated well...communicate this...and also look at their family dyamics- is it a family unit or filled with dysfunctionality? Not that good people don't come from problem families, but if the person is not listening or not treating you well...it comes from somewhere. Usually home first. Should your communication be ignored...then maybe it is time...to let go of the relationship. Do not settle for anything or anyone. Life is difficult enough.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Communication - 10/24/2010 2:50:48 PM   
liketobeBlues


Posts: 12
Joined: 1/1/2010
Status: offline 		Communication and effective communication are two different critters;

I was in Minnesota not so long ago and I asked the wonderboy about the "lights on the road". ( I know they are road reflectors used with or instead of little white lines to indicate lanes. ) Thinking I was talking about the carpool lane indicator lights he gave me an answer along those lines. By the time I finished explaining that was not what I was talking about we had passed them and the conversation turned. A few days later we were on the same road and he mentioned them. I told him that was what I had been talking about before! We did have a laugh, but it could have been something so much bigger than "lights on the road".  
I don't think that communication carries some extra magical power just because it's tied to the lifestyle. I do however believe there are those of us, myself included, who find this a critical life skill.
I will not speculate on your relationship for that is yours to decide, but I do wish you the best.
~ Blue ~

(in reply to MIsabelah)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Communication - 10/24/2010 3:13:09 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		I believe we are saying something beyond the seeming advantages of straight forward communication. What we are actually looking for is someone who understands what we mean and gets the humor, nuance, sadness, passion or anger in our words and expressions.

Different people can answer your same question with the same words, but if you are only joined with one emotionally, that will be the one you feel understood what you said.

I believe I communicate pretty well, but I don’t ramble on with answers. I simply validate what the person is saying and whether it is right or wrong. In other words, she believes or more accurately FEELS I understand her sentiments even if I don’t agree. If she knows I care about her, she is not going to be upset that I don’t concede her point.

So what most actually want, in regards to communications and most other aspects, is someone who GETS them, not one who simply answers everything quickly and accurately.


_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to dfwdallasdoll)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Communication - 10/24/2010 4:33:47 PM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse


quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

quote:

ORIGINAL: dfwdallasdoll

I have told him my needs and expectations, but not sure how much he listened to them.  Perhaps you are correct that we are not suited for one another.

I think you just hit the nail on the head by saying he doesn't know the answer to my questions. 


Everyone knows the answers to questions, he just does not want to tell you or care about telling you.


Bull. There are many questions I've been asked I didn't know the answer to. Either the question caught me off guard or, god forbid, I just plain was unsure/didn't know. Either way, I have the self confidence (at least now) to admit "I don't know." Then I follow it up with, "Give me some time to think about that, do some research, whatever applies, and I will get back to you."

Being dominant does not make a person all knowing. It only makes them dominant, and often times, the one leading the relationship.


LaT. I would never dream of assuming that someone who claimed to be dominant was all knowing about anything, ever.

That was NOT at all what I meant. What I meant was that most of the questions that arise in relationships are not of the intellectual type, but more about the relationship itself.

Any questions involving feelings, tastes, desires, wants, needs, structure, etc, that are endemic to the specific relationship...THOSE questions are ones that assuredly have an answer.

Those questions should be answered, even if one does not know how they feel, that would be the reply.

If such an emotional question caught you off guard, then I would rather hear you say that than avoid the topic altogether. As you say, confidence is knowing when to say, I really don't know, but I understand it is important to you and I will try and give you an honest appraisal of my feelings, rather than ignore the question or worse, say, stop asking or you ask too many questions. That shows avoidance, not communication.


Him telling me that he doesn't know the answer to a question as opposed to refusing to answer the question is so much easier to mentally deal with.
The latter sends me into a tailspin especially since he makes decisions for me.

< Message edited by Aileen1968 -- 10/24/2010 4:41:09 PM >

_____________________________



(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 40
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