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Punishing a Sub - 11/2/2010 2:53:31 AM   
lickenforyou


Posts: 379
Joined: 3/13/2005
Status: offline 		If, as a sub, i crave/need punishment and discipline. But, i also want to please and work very hard to do everything right. Won't  i run the risk of not getting the punishment that i need?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/2/2010 4:07:43 AM   
BonesFromAsh


Posts: 1362
Joined: 6/17/2010
Status: offline 		I have to wonder if you mean funishment instead of punishment.


(in reply to lickenforyou)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/2/2010 5:38:32 AM   
liketobeBlues


Posts: 12
Joined: 1/1/2010
Status: offline 		I'm just wondering ... must the action ( insert whatever trips your trigger here ) come from a place that began with wrong?  Would it not be better to have a D-type that actually enjoys said action? That way you can be a good lil ( insert your adjective here ) and still get the action that you desire. Of course there is the whole it's your D-type's choice as to how and when and where and for what length of time the action will occur ...
 
In my world ... if you need punishment ... you're not gonna enjoy it in the least. And the reality is ... neither will I. And why would anyone want to spend time doing something they don't particularly enjoy?
 
Of course there may well be hundreds or even thousands of D-types who disagree with me and will be more than happy to cater to your whim. Even if you do behave.
 
~ Blue ~
 
Edited cause my fingers are workin independently of my mind ...
 

< Message edited by liketobeBlues -- 11/2/2010 5:41:51 AM >

(in reply to BonesFromAsh)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/2/2010 7:40:09 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I can understand the need for discipline.  You may crave the need for greater structure within a dynamic, rather than one that is more laid back.  Also, you may have a desire for pain play.  However, most people don't actually wish to create situations where they need to be punished.  Many submissives, while they do like to engage in S/m, really don't want to be displeasing.

One of the most misused words that people new to BDSM come into the lifestyle with is "punishment".  They interpret the paddling that they want to receive as punishment.  If you really ask yourself what it is that you want, do you want the activity or do you want to be penalized in some way?  Do you really want to feel that you have displeased your Dominant, created drama, or some other thing to make you deserve a negative consequence?  The parallel to vanilla folks is like saying you want to have a fight with your SO in order to have make-up sex.  Why not just have the great sex without having the disruption?

Some people do enjoy role playing.  That the bottom has made some kind of infraction to inspire the play that is happening.  A lot of people call this "funishment" because it's a game of make believe.  The top isn't really upset with the bottom and the funishment only lasts for the duration of the scene.  This is a lot different than an actual punishment, where neither the top or the bottom are really very happy.

So, ask yourself.  Do you really need punishment or are you interested in engaging in S/m?  If you could get that paddling (or whatever floats your boat) without having made someone unhappy, wouldn't that be better?  Where both of you are enjoying the activity? 


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to liketobeBlues)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/2/2010 12:14:25 PM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lickenforyou
If, as a sub, i crave/need punishment and discipline. But, i also want to please and work very hard to do everything right. Won't  i run the risk of not getting the punishment that i need?


As it's already been stated, your greatest risk is very likely to be not finding anyone willing to be intimate with you if you lack social skills, class and tact.  Sexually explicit screen names are not classy.  They can not even pass for classy in the dark.  A decent percentage of women will delete your emails unread because you have chosen an explicit screen name.  The message that this basically sends to us is, "Hi, I don't actually want to know you as a person before I get my tongue on you, because getting to use my tongue is more important to me than who I use it on.  I don't care if I like you as a person, or if you like me, because I'm not going to take the time to get to know you first.  I just want to use my tongue on female anatomy.  Want some?"

Not attractive.  Srsly.  Lose the screen name.  It's cool to make sure the information is available in your profile that you enjoy XYZ fetish activities, but keep it classy or we'll think you're telling us that you care more about doing the fetish activity than you do about the person you're doing it with.  And most of us are likely to think that is creepy and un-classy and we won't want to be with you.

BDSM relationships are *human* relationships first and foremost.  Forget or ignore this at your peril.  Being kinky is not an excuse for poor social skills.  If you wouldn't walk up to a woman on the street and waggle your tongue at her, don't do it even if you already know she is a femdom.  The way a human relationship generally goes is you get to know someone as a person, figure out if you like each other enough and have enough in common to be compatible for a sexual relationship, then embark on the sexual relationship.  Being kinky doesn't give you a free pass to go right to the sexual stuff while ignoring the personal compatibility and social stuff.   Pay attention to your potential dominant as a person, listen to what she is saying, respect that she is a human being with wants and needs and feelings of her own.  That's generally a winning approach.

It's also a winning approach, once you have established an actual relationship with another human being whose D/s orientation complements yours, to be open, honest, self-aware and clearly communicative.  If you feel a need for "punishment" either in the sense of physical S&M play or a structure of discipline and direction, communicate this honestly, while remaining aware and considerate of your partner's needs.  Without being demanding, you can say honestly, "I feel loved when my partner does X to me; I think this is a real need I have in a relationship.  I need to feel loved and disciplined."  Negotiation proceeds from there.   Being honest, positive and considerate when asking for your needs to be met usually works very well.

What you don't want to do is to demand that your needs be met without taking notice of your partner's needs or comfort level, or to be negative when expressing your needs.  Eg, "You don't punish me enough, so you must not love me."    Or worse, "A REAL dominant would have punished me for that; I'm going to misbehave until you meet my needs."  That never ends well, so don't go there.  Establish a genuine human relationship first, be honest about what makes you feel loved and happy in a relationship, and be prepared to listen very carefully to what your partner says she needs.  Human relationships are not one-way streets, bad BDSM porn notwithstanding.  Women are not the drive-through McDomme's to meet your fetish needs, and men are not endless providers of what a woman wants either, not if she isn't bothering to recognize and meet his needs.

If you crave being "punished" because it turns you on or because it makes you feel owned, controlled and secure, then it's a reward, not a punishment.  And you need to ask for it and earn it like any other reward, negotiated openly and honestly as one of your basic needs to be happy in the relationship.  "Subs" who fuck up and do bad, hurtful or inconsiderate things to their partners so that they can get their own needs for a beating met are neither submissive nor decent human beings.  Nor are they good relationship material.  This kind of hurtful and selfish behavior is usually a deal breaker in a relationship, because it says, "I am willing to hurt and disappoint my partner to get my needs met."  Not cool, dude.  Don't fall into this trap; it's not going to end well for you or for her. 

_____________________________

Your dominant Personal Trainer for fitness and body shaping in the lifestyle. Let my fetish be your motivation.

(in reply to lickenforyou)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/2/2010 12:19:28 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		This can be one of the big problems with a punishment dynamic. If you only get the physical sensations you need met when you've misbehaved, you will misbehave. It's the choice between having bad breath and no breath at all.

Some dominants will give maintenance spankings at regular intervals to fulfill the sub's sensation needs. Other will give it as rewards for a good week. And yes others set up  play situations. You could not really respect someone who said they would punish you for not buying them a winning lottery ticket because you have no control over the numbers. But you can do it as funishment when both parties know it's just a game. And some of us just say "it's been a rough week, could you tie me up and use me please?" asking to have our needs met as adults. And if you've also picked an adult for a partner you might get "sure, go get the toy bag" but you might also get "I need a cup of tea and a half a sandwich first and a half hour off" at which point you get them what they need, knowing that when they feel refreshed they will be able to give you what you need.

The way to work it out is to talk to your dominant.


_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/2/2010 4:53:52 PM   
lickenforyou


Posts: 379
Joined: 3/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Some people do enjoy role playing.  That the bottom has made some kind of infraction to inspire the play that is happening.  A lot of people call this "funishment" because it's a game of make believe.  The top isn't really upset with the bottom and the funishment only lasts for the duration of the scene.  This is a lot different than an actual punishment, where neither the top or the bottom are really very happy.

So, ask yourself.  Do you really need punishment or are you interested in engaging in S/m?  If you could get that paddling (or whatever floats your boat) without having made someone unhappy, wouldn't that be better?  Where both of you are enjoying the activity? 



Thanks LadyPact for being the only one even close to answering my question.

i guess the problem i have is once it's called "funishment" then it's clearly fantasy play. What You said about role playing is probably what i am looking for. But, i think the role playing for me has to have the feel of reality to it.

Thanks so much, again, LadyPact for Your feedback.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/2/2010 5:33:52 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lickenforyou

Thanks LadyPact for being the only one even close to answering my question.



You actually got some good replies, just not what you wanted to hear. Thats a frequent occurance on a public forum.

quote:


i guess the problem i have is once it's called "funishment" then it's clearly fantasy play. What You said about role playing is probably what i am looking for. But, i think the role playing for me has to have the feel of reality to it.

Thanks so much, again, LadyPact for Your feedback.



Several things to take into account here. Some Dominas like to punish you for fun, no other reason than they enjoy it. Some Dominas dont see punishment as you do, IE pain, they see tasks such as essays more effective as they are less enjoyable for the submissive. One size doesnt fit all, my best advice would be to be honest about what you need, then try and find someone whose ideals match as closely as possible with your own.

Edits for spelling, or lack of.

< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 11/2/2010 5:34:50 PM >

(in reply to lickenforyou)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/2/2010 5:45:27 PM   
BonesFromAsh


Posts: 1362
Joined: 6/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lickenforyou


i guess the problem i have is once it's called "funishment" then it's clearly fantasy play.


My reason for using the word funishment was in response to your implied need for punishment even though you claim you want to "work hard and do every thing right".

quote:


But, i also want to please and work very hard to do everything right. Won't i run the risk of not getting the punishment that i need?


Punishment is, in my opinion, NOT a good thing. As LadyNTrainer said so well..

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer
If you crave being "punished" because it turns you on or because it makes you feel owned, controlled and secure, then it's a reward, not a punishment.


So, which is it...reward/funishment or real punishment?

(in reply to lickenforyou)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/2/2010 6:02:16 PM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline 		The reality is that "acting out" or misbehaving, hurting or disappointing your partner in order to get your emotional needs met is not healthy for any relationship.  The only choice a submissive has in this situation that is fair to their partner is to be honest about their need and to openly negotiate for what they want.

Delivering either punishment or funishment is pretty energy intensive and can be draining.  A submissive who doesn't realize this and demands to be the focus of this much energy and intensity on a very frequent basis will burn their partner out.  If you need your partner to focus this much of their intense energy on you, then you need to be a good enough and supportive enough partner that they have that energy to give. 

Sometimes that does mean putting your desire for a spanking on hold long enough to fix her tea and give a relaxing backrub.  It's not any different with a D/s couple than it is with a vanilla couple.  The more genuinely considerate and supportive you are, the more energy she will have to put into the relationship.  If you are nothing but trouble and drama, hidden agendas, passive aggression and pouting, the good kinky energy in the relationship will very quickly disappear.  She won't have all that intense energy to focus on you, and you'll wonder why and maybe act out some more, until she doesn't want to be with you at all.

Des said it very well - sometimes even if you ask, your partner's response will be that she doesn't have any extra energy to give right at that moment.  Your choices are to be a pain in the ass to take away even more of her energy and enthusiasm, or to be considerate enough to give her the time and space and support she needs to recharge so that she can meet your needs without being irritated and exhausted.  If you can be a good and supportive partner and considerate of her needs while clearly communicating your own, this is a win-win situation and likely to result in your getting the spankings and discipline that you need.

If you can't, you're basically fucked, and not in the fun way.  It doesn't matter whether your needs are for the physicality of a beating or the disciplinary structure of behavioral control and real punishment.  You still have to be honest, trustworthy and supportive of your partner if you want her to have the interest and the energy to do these things with you. 

< Message edited by LadyNTrainer -- 11/2/2010 6:04:15 PM >

_____________________________

Your dominant Personal Trainer for fitness and body shaping in the lifestyle. Let my fetish be your motivation.

(in reply to BonesFromAsh)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/2/2010 6:03:01 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lickenforyou
Thanks LadyPact for being the only one even close to answering my question.

i guess the problem i have is once it's called "funishment" then it's clearly fantasy play. What You said about role playing is probably what i am looking for. But, i think the role playing for me has to have the feel of reality to it.

Thanks so much, again, LadyPact for Your feedback.


You're quite welcome.  I actually have a soft spot for role play.  It let's the imagination run a bit.

All it really takes for you to "feel" you are into the scenario is a good top who is creative and to allow yourself to go where she leads you.  Negotiations and safety first, of course, but a good top can come up with all kinds of ways for you to trip yourself up without you actually being in trouble.  It can absolutely feel real for the duration of the scene.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to lickenforyou)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/2/2010 6:53:48 PM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Greetings

What about calling it play and not punishment. I think something is wrong when people ask how can I be punished? I want to be obedient but I disobey because I want pain. When I was Aswad's slave we played often, using both whips and other things, but punishment was reserved for corrections, it was not supposed to be pleasurable, it was not supposed to be fun. I think many have a problem with just admitting I like pain or I like giving pain and I do so for fun, so instead they strive to invent some reason to punish, but do not then actual punishment cease to have an effect. It is like if a child hates to go to school then suspending the child form school for a few days will not be much of a punishment now will it. Why not call play what it is play, why the need to call it punishment?

I wish you well.


_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to lickenforyou)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/2/2010 6:55:37 PM   
lickenforyou


Posts: 379
Joined: 3/13/2005
Status: offline 		[/quote]

You actually got some good replies, just not what you wanted to hear. Thats a frequent occurance on a public forum.

Thanks PoliteSub, I guess you know better than I do what I was looking for.

Thats also an all too frequent occurance on a public forum

< Message edited by lickenforyou -- 11/2/2010 7:18:10 PM >

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/2/2010 7:01:00 PM   
lickenforyou


Posts: 379
Joined: 3/13/2005
Status: offline 		[/quote]My reason for using the word funishment was in response to your implied need for punishment even though you claim you want to "work hard and do every thing right".

Bones, I understand why you used funishment. I'm trying to figure a way around it.

< Message edited by lickenforyou -- 11/2/2010 7:17:08 PM >

(in reply to BonesFromAsh)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/2/2010 7:13:57 PM   
BurntKitty


Posts: 3340
Joined: 9/7/2010
From: Here To Eternity.
Status: offline 		I'm a maso submissive.  I love pain play.  I like impact play: flogging, whipping, paddling & caning is foreplay.
I won't date someone who cannot channel his inner sadist.  I let guys know that up front, before the relationship starts. 



_____________________________

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(in reply to lickenforyou)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/2/2010 7:45:08 PM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Greetings

quote:

i guess the problem i have is once it's called "funishment" then it's clearly fantasy play. What You said about role playing is probably what i am looking for. But, i think the role playing for me has to have the feel of reality to it.


How is it less real if your Dom beats you for the fun of it, or for their own pleasure and yours then if they claim it is punishment when it is not?

I wish you well.


_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to lickenforyou)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/2/2010 7:54:40 PM   
YSG


Posts: 1001
Joined: 8/6/2010
Status: offline 		Dicipline and submission do not come from the end of a whip, or the face of a paddle. They come from within.

I do not serve out of fear, or want of reward. I serve out of love. I do my Lady's bidding, because I wish to see her happy and content.

I feel that my task, as her submissive, is to make her life easier and less stressful through my service, instead of making it harder and more stressful through disobedience, negligence, or sheer foolishness.

I will admit, it is not an easy path to take. Many times, I have been hurt. I have been lied to, cheated on, been taken advantage of. I have been led on, only to be smashed upon the rocks later. Many, many times I have seen my life burn before my eyes. However, I have endured. I have risen from the ashes, like a phoenix. I endure, because I beleive my One is out there. I beleive that soon, she will show herself to me.

_____________________________

Our duty is to hold ourselves responsible to the people. Every word, every act and every policy must conform to the people's interests, and if mistakes occur, they must be corrected - that is what being responsible to the people means- Mao Zedong

(in reply to BurntKitty)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/2/2010 9:25:13 PM   
lickenforyou


Posts: 379
Joined: 3/13/2005
Status: offline 		YSG, OK, thanks for that

(in reply to YSG)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/2/2010 9:31:05 PM   
lickenforyou


Posts: 379
Joined: 3/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

a good top can come up with all kinds of ways for you to trip yourself up without you actually being in trouble.
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

LadyPact
Ok, great! That's what i wanted to know. That's what i was hoping for, but wasn't sure how that would work. Thanks again for taking the time to understand and respond.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Punishing a Sub - 11/2/2010 9:55:27 PM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: YSG
Dicipline and submission do not come from the end of a whip, or the face of a paddle. They come from within.

I do not serve out of fear, or want of reward. I serve out of love. I do my Lady's bidding, because I wish to see her happy and content.

I feel that my task, as her submissive, is to make her life easier and less stressful through my service, instead of making it harder and more stressful through disobedience, negligence, or sheer foolishness.


You rock.  You Get It. If you were bisexual and local, or if I didn't already have a full poly leather family, I'd be eyeing you quite speculatively.  Good luck in your search, and with that winning attitude I am confident that a quality femdom will snatch you up sooner rather than later.  

_____________________________

Your dominant Personal Trainer for fitness and body shaping in the lifestyle. Let my fetish be your motivation.

(in reply to YSG)
Profile   Post #: 20
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