RE: Something bothering me about certain republican goals...I'm just confused....

RE: Something bothering me about certain republican goals...I'm just confused.... (Full Version)

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popeye1250 -> RE: Something bothering me about certain republican goals...I'm just confused.... (11/3/2010 10:33:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen So I'm listening to certain Republican "goals"and some I can really jive with. Balance the budget, limit government power, maintain rights under the Constitution....all of this I can really go for. What I don't get is how Republicans (because Democrats the I can tolerate listening to don't go spouting this stuff) can say they hope to limit government influence and control by deregulating the business sector but at the same turn scream about limiting individuals' rights by being invasive about people's personal business (who they marry, how they fuck, parental planning, etc). I mean, if governmental involvement is required by a societal situation, would impacting major influencing bodies like businesses take less money and less invasive efforts from the government than trying to control what every individual does in their own lives? Is this like a big picture problem? I just don't understand the reasoning behind it. I don't want to debate who's right or wrong, I want insight into the logical process that brings Republicans, as a whole, to this conclusion. boi What you are confusing you is that you are confusing fiscal and governmental conservatives with the religious conservatives. They overlap, but are not identical groups. You're right there. The "Rightist holy rollers" and the lefties are just as bad as each other. I'd like to see them put in giant cages for a Smackdown fight. They should get together and form their own party, maybe, "The Outcast Party." Or, "The Socially Inept Party" Or, "The People that Noone Wants to Talk to Party." Just because someone believes in the bible doesn't give them the right to force their views on others. We see how well that shit goes over when the muslims try it. Being a religious zealot is not being "conservative" it's simply being a fucking bore that only other religious zealots want to talk to. Hopefully a lot of the crew elected last night will be fiscal conservatives and social liberals.

Charles6682 -> RE: Something bothering me about certain republican goals...I'm just confused.... (11/4/2010 3:25:41 AM)
BoiJen,I agree with you on this one alot.This is the problem I have with the Republican party myself.Republican's say nice thing's,less government,more personal freedom,etc.However,whenever Repub's get into office,they just look to use government to shove their bible thumping way's on to the rest of America.I like more freedom but that isn't what the Republican's do when they are in power.I do agree with"social Libertarian's",meaning I truly believe government should keep it's nose out of people's business.Yet that's the problem with Repub,mainly social conservative's.Alot of talk of "economic freedom"but that's where it end's.Prove it republican's that you truly mean less government interference in people's personal live's.Or was that just "bumper sticker"slogan's as it has alway's been?That's why I voted Democrat,they do value personal liberty and personal freesom alot more than Republican's claim.

subrob1967 -> RE: Something bothering me about certain republican goals...I'm just confused.... (11/4/2010 4:13:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen SubRob, http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2010/06/22/2010-06-22_texas_gop_platform_criminalize_gay_marriage_and_ban_sodomy_outlaw_strip_clubs_an.html http://www.ontheissues.org/republican_party.htm#Abortion Abortion, gay marriage, sodomy....sounds like invasive personal issues to me. A platform is not a bill.Both sides say what they think their constituents want to hear, but exactly how many have actually made it in to the law books?

BoiJen -> RE: Something bothering me about certain republican goals...I'm just confused.... (11/4/2010 5:19:50 AM)
SubRob, if the position is "that's just what they're saying to get votes" then conservatives would have no problem voting Democrat...because "that's just what they're saying". When Republicans make noise and attempts to introduce bills that would limit a women's right to choose or amendments to state constitutions to ban gay marriage, it's not just "that's what they're saying", it's stated goals for social policy.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Something bothering me about certain republican goals...I'm just confused.... (11/4/2010 7:12:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hlen5 quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: hlen5 Of course there is pork in every budget, but 20%? We could start with cutting funding to such asinine things as N.P.R, the National Endowment for the Arts grants which always seem to go to those artists who are most avant-garde and/or offensive, we could purge oversight committees on congressional spending on defense, welfare, education and other areas and put others in charge who will deal with a sharper knife and a willingness to stand up to those entities that think that because the government will pay for it, they can charge what they will...all of those things would make a start. NPR gets 4% of it's operating budget from the Federal government. The majority (40+%) comes from individual donors. Actually, the figure is closer to 8% but why quibble? Cut them loose and then they can stop pretending to be a middle-of-the-road-view public service outlet and be what they really are...the equivalent of Air America, supported by "progressive" dollars.

Charles6682 -> RE: Something bothering me about certain republican goals...I'm just confused.... (11/4/2010 11:34:48 AM)
I find myself agreeing with Popeye lately,interesting,

slvemike4u -> RE: Something bothering me about certain republican goals...I'm just confused.... (11/4/2010 11:38:48 AM)
See I would have ,were I to find myself in such a situation,chosen anything other than "interesting".....troubling would work for me.Disturbing is another good one....the phrase " I need to see a doctor" would also work. Interesting does not make the list.

popeye1250 -> RE: Something bothering me about certain republican goals...I'm just confused.... (11/4/2010 11:46:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u See I would have ,were I to find myself in such a situation,chosen anything other than "interesting".....troubling would work for me.Disturbing is another good one....the phrase " I need to see a doctor" would also work. Interesting does not make the list. But Mike, that's because you're only capable of thinking in a very limited sphere. If your mind tries to think about "new" things it acts like that robot on "Lost in Space", "Does not compute!!! Does not compute!!!" "Overload!!!" "Overload!!!"

slvemike4u -> RE: Something bothering me about certain republican goals...I'm just confused.... (11/4/2010 11:56:46 AM)
Yeah Popeye...it's my thinking that is limited....you are too funny at times.

subrob1967 -> RE: Something bothering me about certain republican goals...I'm just confused.... (11/4/2010 12:01:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen SubRob, if the position is "that's just what they're saying to get votes" then conservatives would have no problem voting Democrat...because "that's just what they're saying". When Republicans make noise and attempts to introduce bills that would limit a women's right to choose or amendments to state constitutions to ban gay marriage, it's not just "that's what they're saying", it's stated goals for social policy. How does something that happens in the state of Texas affect you? No one is forcing you to move there. Just like the stupid laws in California don't affect me here in Indiana.

BoiJen -> RE: Something bothering me about certain republican goals...I'm just confused.... (11/4/2010 12:18:40 PM)
Rob, You said platforms don't matter because those stated goals don't really happen-clearly these things DO happen. The Republican platform in Florida successfully helped pass a state constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage just two years ago. That IS where I live. Your arguments don't get to have it both ways...either these stated goals should be looked at on a state-by-state and national level issues because it is possible to pass legislation that rolls back social progress OR the Republicans need to change their stated platforms. The platforms are goals for each party. If the stated platform of the Republican party is to create a social threat to the personal liberties of ANY American, then they are not, in ANY way, attempting to "limit" government. It's a damn lie.

FitExpDomwPic -> RE: Something bothering me about certain republican goals...I'm just confused.... (11/4/2010 12:32:03 PM)
The largest expansion of the Federal Govt since Pres. Johnson's New Deal took place during the W. Bush administration--while Republicans also controlled both houses of Congress. They also created 6 of the 10 biggest yearly deficits in history, and were forced to raise the legal debt ceiling THREE TIMES. That's fiscal responsibility? The Republican's also created a huge, new entitlement program, Medicare B, and provided no way to pay for it. Anyone who believes the Republicans are now suddenly going to do what they say is, I think, deluded. Democrats don't do any better regarding walking the talk. Dems were "swept into power" in '04 promising to pull out of Iraq and investigate/hold accountable the Bush admin's extra-Constitutional activities. They did neither, of course.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Something bothering me about certain republican goals...I'm just confused.... (11/4/2010 12:54:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FitExpDomwPic The largest expansion of the Federal Govt since Pres. Johnson's New Deal took place during the W. Bush administration--while Republicans also controlled both houses of Congress. . Not even close on either the numbers or Congressional control. The largest expansion of government since the 30s as a % of GDP (the important statistic) took place from 1965-1975 under solid Democrat control, at a rate of 1.96% a year. During the entire GWB administration the rate of growth was 1.41%. Furthermore, during the Democrat controlled portion of the Bush years the rate of increase was 2.08%, during the GOP controlled Bush years the rate of increase was 1.22%.

subrob1967 -> RE: Something bothering me about certain republican goals...I'm just confused.... (11/4/2010 2:15:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen Rob, You said platforms don't matter because those stated goals don't really happen-clearly these things DO happen. The Republican platform in Florida successfully helped pass a state constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage just two years ago. That IS where I live. Your arguments don't get to have it both ways...either these stated goals should be looked at on a state-by-state and national level issues because it is possible to pass legislation that rolls back social progress OR the Republicans need to change their stated platforms. The platforms are goals for each party. If the stated platform of the Republican party is to create a social threat to the personal liberties of ANY American, then they are not, in ANY way, attempting to "limit" government. It's a damn lie. I'd say it's more than a Republican problem if Fla, which went for Obama passed a same sex marriage ban in 08, wouldn't you? Both parties have been limiting personal freedom's for a lot longer than the last two years

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Something bothering me about certain republican goals...I'm just confused.... (11/4/2010 3:18:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen Rob, You said platforms don't matter because those stated goals don't really happen-clearly these things DO happen. The Republican platform in Florida successfully helped pass a state constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage just two years ago. That IS where I live. Your arguments don't get to have it both ways...either these stated goals should be looked at on a state-by-state and national level issues because it is possible to pass legislation that rolls back social progress OR the Republicans need to change their stated platforms. The platforms are goals for each party. If the stated platform of the Republican party is to create a social threat to the personal liberties of ANY American, then they are not, in ANY way, attempting to "limit" government. It's a damn lie. I'd say it's more than a Republican problem if Fla, which went for Obama passed a same sex marriage ban in 08, wouldn't you? Both parties have been limiting personal freedom's for a lot longer than the last two years Freedoms just another word for nothing in the law prevents it. (with due apologies to KK). Iowa just threw out 3 of their justices who decided against their gay marriage law.

BoiJen -> RE: Something bothering me about certain republican goals...I'm just confused.... (11/4/2010 3:42:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Freedoms just another word for nothing in the law prevents it. (with due apologies to KK). Iowa just threw out 3 of their justices who decided against their gay marriage law. quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Here in Iowa, good and bad. Then there is the purely comical. They re-elected Branstad....morons. Such a short memory most people have. Voted to get rid of judges because, OMG, the three we can voted to uphold the state constitution and support gay marriage. Yet, get this, they also voted to not allow changes with the state constitution. A big "WTF!!!!" The happiest news of all, Miller-Meeks LOST!!!!!!!!! Just sayin.....

Charles6682 -> RE: Something bothering me about certain republican goals...I'm just confused.... (11/4/2010 4:18:38 PM)
I live in Flordia too.The Flordia Republican's are about has far right social conservative's as it come's... The state senate,the state house of rep's(assembly) and the Governor's mansion is about to be filled with extreme right,bible thumping people... It's hard for me to believe that these Flordia Reublican's really care about freedom.Maybe econimic freedom for big business but that's about it.As for social policy,the Flordia Republican's are more about limiting people's right's,not expanding them..... Governor Charlie Crist was a rare Republican in Flordia.He actually did believe in more personal freedom for people.The social conservative's didn't like that and that's why Charlie Crist had to run as an Independent for the U.S. Senate.

popeye1250 -> RE: Something bothering me about certain republican goals...I'm just confused.... (11/4/2010 7:30:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Charles6682 I live in Flordia too.The Flordia Republican's are about has far right social conservative's as it come's... The state senate,the state house of rep's(assembly) and the Governor's mansion is about to be filled with extreme right,bible thumping people... It's hard for me to believe that these Flordia Reublican's really care about freedom.Maybe econimic freedom for big business but that's about it.As for social policy,the Flordia Republican's are more about limiting people's right's,not expanding them..... Governor Charlie Crist was a rare Republican in Flordia.He actually did believe in more personal freedom for people.The social conservative's didn't like that and that's why Charlie Crist had to run as an Independent for the U.S. Senate. You said the magic words again, "Bible Thumping." Even if you're not a "Christian" they try to impose Christianity on everyone. And they're not just Republicans, they're Democrats and unfortunately Independants as well.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Something bothering me about certain republican goals...I'm just confused.... (11/4/2010 8:31:24 PM)
I asked a similar question at a rally once, and was told by an old Republican that "it happened when the party started courting the religious nuts."

FullCircle -> RE: Something bothering me about certain republican goals...I'm just confused.... (11/5/2010 5:51:46 PM)
It's an ideology, before you know it they'll be equating masturbation to adultery. They want to conserve the past, people can argue about fiscal conservatives versus religious ones but it's the same mind set. The term 'fiscal conservative' is a bit of perversion used to paint the picture that non conservatives couldn't possibly be responsible with the government cash. You want to take something negative (say living in the past) and spin it as something positive. Also people bleat on about government spending and how government doesn't create jobs, yet the military spending is mostly for just that. So there is more than one contradiction with the conservative agenda as a whole. Actually the conservatives win just by virtue of the fact they hate change and now government has been utterly paralysed, so change can't happen. You may as well have paid them to sit on their backsides because that is what the crazies will be doing with their time in their fancy new chairs. I think the world is going backwards.

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