The "General Welfare" clause

The "General Welfare" clause (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> The "General Welfare" clause (11/4/2010 10:34:31 AM)
What does it mean? Why was it written into the constitution> Is it still applicable today? I read this while browsing through the topic on google. Mentioned in the United States' Preamble to the Constitution, "Welfare" means health, happiness, prosperity or well-being. The country has an interest in promoting or maintaining the well-being and liberty of its people. A common misconception is that the "General Welfare" mentioned in the constitution is synonymous with our modern "welfare" programs. Congress was granted the power to promote the general welfare of the nation by the Constitution of the United States. It means that Congress should provide laws that are in keeping with the principles of the self governed. It means that Congress may provide legislation that acts in a general best interest of a nation. ---- Actually, the General Welfare clause, as it became known, was a limitation of federal power written into the Preamble. Benjamin Franklin, during the Constitutional Convention, proposed a tax for canals. Canals were important for businesses to receive and ship merchandise. Gouverneur Morris of New York argued that it wasn't right to tax the whole people while only those towns that had canals would benefit. This started a discussion about the powers of the federal government to tax. They finally came up with the General Welfare clause which the Founders meant that unless the whole people of the United States would benefit from the tax, you should not promote it. Only the general, or the whole, welfare of the people should benefit from the tax. In those days they did not call what we now call welfare, welfare. They called it "poor relief". The concept of the term "welfare" for poor relief was unknown and is a false modern interpretation. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_Promote_the_general_welfare_mean Granted, this is someone's opinion. What are yours? Do you disagree with the above?

willbeurdaddy -> RE: The "General Welfare" clause (11/4/2010 12:04:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl A common misconception is that the "General Welfare" mentioned in the constitution is synonymous with our modern "welfare" programs. They arent synonymous, but the General Welfare clause is the only possible basis for the Constitutionality of welfare programs. Therefore for all intents and purposes when you are defending welfare programs you are invoking the General Welfare clause.

tazzygirl -> RE: The "General Welfare" clause (11/4/2010 2:31:23 PM)
Then why would health care not be a part of the General Welfare?

willbeurdaddy -> RE: The "General Welfare" clause (11/4/2010 2:52:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Then why would health care not be a part of the General Welfare? Because it, like other welfare programs are Individual, not General welfare.

tazzygirl -> RE: The "General Welfare" clause (11/4/2010 2:59:30 PM)
That could be hotly debated. Health care left unchecked can cause community issues, rising costs for everyone.

slvemike4u -> RE: The "General Welfare" clause (11/4/2010 3:01:57 PM)
Health care is not "like other welfare programs"...what an assinine statement.Ceryainly not the first you've made(nor the last I'm sure) but ranking near the top.

tazzygirl -> RE: The "General Welfare" clause (11/4/2010 3:11:16 PM)
ummm.... ok... i dont recall saying that, but...

willbeurdaddy -> RE: The "General Welfare" clause (11/4/2010 3:12:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl That could be hotly debated. Health care left unchecked can cause community issues, rising costs for everyone. Obviously it can be debated, we spent the last 50 years debating it, and its not over yet. The CDC is General Welfare, Obama care is unconstitutional individual welfare.

slvemike4u -> RE: The "General Welfare" clause (11/4/2010 3:13:31 PM)
Despite CM's silly little "in reply to" thigamagic....I am sure you have figured out my post was directed at willlllbur.

tazzygirl -> RE: The "General Welfare" clause (11/4/2010 3:13:31 PM)
And what would you constitute Single Payor as...

thompsonx -> RE: The "General Welfare" clause (11/4/2010 3:51:16 PM)
quote: The CDC is General Welfare, Obama care is unconstitutional individual welfare. The cdc does not affect individuals? Your logic is consistant with a red blue mindset and not rational thought.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: The "General Welfare" clause (11/4/2010 4:04:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl And what would you constitute Single Payor as... Not sure why youre asking...my answer seems so obvious that maybe Im missing something in the question.

tazzygirl -> RE: The "General Welfare" clause (11/4/2010 4:42:09 PM)
I am discussing the General Welfare part of the constitution and why this seems to apply to everything except health care in this country.

MrRodgers -> RE: The "General Welfare" clause (11/4/2010 5:04:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Then why would health care not be a part of the General Welfare? In America for the opulent few and their operatives in govt., health care like all things are...to be a profit. The welfare govt. is around to protect (with cash if necessary) is the welfare of wall street, banks, lumber and steel producers, farmers, war suppliers, agriculture, textiles, ethanol producers...shall I go on ?

MrRodgers -> RE: The "General Welfare" clause (11/4/2010 5:12:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl That could be hotly debated. Health care left unchecked can cause community issues, rising costs for everyone. Obviously it can be debated, we spent the last 50 years debating it, and its not over yet. The CDC is General Welfare, Obama care is unconstitutional individual welfare. Obama care is no more unconstitutional than govt. subsidies, Medicare, Govt. financial insurance, requirements for insurance against other economic risks. Single payer heath care is what Canada, Japan, UK, Norway, Sweden, Denmark...and most all of the rest all use to much more cost-effectively provide services to their people and is paid for by the govt....the single payer. It is just terrible. There is hardly any profit and patients actually live longer paying only about 1/2 what Americans do. It's no fun at all.

TheHeretic -> RE: The "General Welfare" clause (11/4/2010 7:16:44 PM)
Tazzy, if you read Article 1, Section 8, you'll find that "general Welfare," is listed with taxes, debts, and defense, at the beginning of the section. Read on, and you get quite a list of specifically stated items that fall under those. These are duties being assigned specifically to the government. If you read this document as having been written to be lawyer-proof, then general welfare means gov't controls the coining of money, the establishment of post offices, and the roads for that mail to travel on (though we all get the benefit of that). Congress is tasked to promote the arts and sciences by enforcing copyright protection, not by grants and endowments. No mention of the poor, and certainly none of doctors. Calling the poverty maintenance programs that have developed "welfare," and then trying to convert that bastardization of the term into what the founders had in mind is just lame, and sad.

Real0ne -> RE: The "General Welfare" clause (11/4/2010 7:39:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I am discussing the General Welfare part of the constitution and why this seems to apply to everything except health care in this country. what if the government was really a private corporation providing a public service. does that mean that what bush said just might hold water? "that constitution is nothing but a god damned piece of paper".

popeye1250 -> RE: The "General Welfare" clause (11/4/2010 7:47:39 PM)
When I think of the General Welfare clause I think of things like Fire Depts, Police Depts, the Post Office, Libraries, Militias etc, very "Franklinesque" types of things which really do better the general welfare of The People. It doesn't make me think of hospitals, doctors, insurance cos or drug cos. And Obama's healthcare program is shit! I like the single payer program like in Europe. It would cost us half of what we pay now!

slvemike4u -> RE: The "General Welfare" clause (11/4/2010 7:55:10 PM)
Amasing how so many now profess an afinity for single payer(this isn't necessarily directed at you pops),hell now we hear Republicans pontificating about the faults in this plan....where were all of these voices during the process of actually pasiing this thing. Am I in Bizzaro world ? Now it is suggested we should repeal/tearup this reform and start over so that we can get a better plan.....Is it just me...or does this seem strange.

tazzygirl -> RE: The "General Welfare" clause (11/4/2010 8:00:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 When I think of the General Welfare clause I think of things like Fire Depts, Police Depts, the Post Office, Libraries, Militias etc, very "Franklinesque" types of things which really do better the general welfare of The People. It doesn't make me think of hospitals, doctors, insurance cos or drug cos. And Obama's healthcare program is shit! I like the single payer program like in Europe. It would cost us half of what we pay now! Im not here, nor did i start this thread to argue over the Health Care Law. I have been quite vocal about how disappointed i am over that passage. What i am here to discuss is the fact that so many believe Libraries are a cause for general welfare and health isnt.

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