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RE: New Reublican Governor's cut jobs as first act. Why? - 11/7/2010 1:52:40 AM   
Hippiekinkster


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From: Liechtenstein
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Monthly bus passes (in Pittsburgh) cost, atm, 80 bucks. Way cheaper to grab a bus than to drive anywhere.
Same thing here in Atlanta. Many moons ago, Cobb County was invited to join MARTA. They turned it down. Believe it or not, the spectre of black people riding up to Cobb Co and stealing TVs and riding MARTA home with a TV on their shoulders was one of the "talking points" for rejecting joining MARTA. Bear in mind, Newt Gingrich used to live in my subdivision in East Cobb. That is how they think. I'm not joking. They truly are that afraid.


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RE: New Reublican Governor's cut jobs as first act. Why? - 11/7/2010 2:00:55 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Excuse me? They couldnt catch a thief on a bus????

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RE: New Reublican Governor's cut jobs as first act. Why? - 11/7/2010 4:26:12 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		When there is a need for it private industry will build it. And make a profit on it.

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1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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RE: New Reublican Governor's cut jobs as first act. Why? - 11/7/2010 4:32:57 AM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

When there is a need for it private industry will build it. And make a profit on it.
Un-fucking-believable....your faith in private industry rivals by far any supposed faith liberals are purported to have in gov'ts ability to solve all problems.You are a mirror image of all you despise.
Amazing.

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RE: New Reublican Governor's cut jobs as first act. Why? - 11/7/2010 4:45:10 AM   
xBullx


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Joined: 10/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

So what do you suggest?




Now I'm not even starting to pretend to be smart enough to answer that question as if I have a solution.

We do have to start somewhere and balancing the budget at least gives us a start point and provides a sense of responsibility toward the matter.

However I believe taking care of our own is where this really begins. Therefore I suggest a plan for reintroducing Tariffs. We have to figure out some way of either encouraging industry to come back home or generating tax funds from industry and product lost to the "free" trade agreements that to me seem very one sided. Actually I prefer industry come home, we appear to have need for the jobs. While I am aware this may not be as simple as just charging a fee at our ports, we do have the minds and ability to form logical plans that will benefit the USA and that is my concern first and foremost.

For the Progressive-Greenies that hate industry due to pollution I say, my big trucks pump out zero carbon emissions now so with a little of that good ole US brain power I suspect we can get 'er done on that front. As for the Neo's that say we can't afford the products we produce here at home. There will be a point where we have a limited ability to buy, but we will get through that, after which supply and demand will do it's job for us. Oh and to those that want to break the US so they can have a one world government and currency I say, get fucked, I don't even like an overly empowered central government in this country.

As for the Defense budget, that is the Feds duty to maintain, if they were doing less of the budget duties of the states they could afford their responsibilities. And I have no problem paying a bit more tax to my state when I know that this money will be used where I live and will not be funding whale studies off the coast of Peru (a ridiculous example used to impress a point), or some other expense that would be fine if excess money were there for it.

Well that took me off topic but I do believe the Fed should have an affordable and workable plan to improve all types of interstate commerce and this high speed rail system, in my opinion would fit into that. And of course there is the future revenue that sales tax on ticket prices will generate. Trains in Europe were so fast and efficient for travel that I almost never drove my car/pick-up if I didn't have to. But along with trains will also be the need for bus and taxi service. These things in private hands seem to always make money so perhaps one need will inspire others if the plans are thorough enough.


< Message edited by xBullx -- 11/7/2010 4:49:08 AM >

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RE: New Reublican Governor's cut jobs as first act. Why? - 11/7/2010 5:03:56 AM   
xBullx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Un-fucking-believable....your faith in private industry rivals by far any supposed faith liberals are purported to have in gov'ts ability to solve all problems.You are a mirror image of all you despise.
Amazing.



Actually Mike, I also have a great deal of faith in free enterprise. Americans are great at noting where a buck can be made and doing so. I also believe that safety and fair play need to be monitored and that should be the role of Government. Private industry almost always produces service and product more efficiently and cost effective than does the Government.

As greedy, callous and unfair as free industry has been over the years past it was this concept that actually built America into the powerhouse it was as opposed to those that seemingly think it was the Government.

The very things that built America is now what builds China and India, at least their economies. And look, the Government “runs” China, still they have no great regard for the average Joe's health and personal prosperity. We seem to at least take that into account now-a-days.


_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
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RE: New Reublican Governor's cut jobs as first act. Why? - 11/7/2010 5:20:39 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		OMG, you turn things how you want them. It was a point that was made, and then sensationalized by the media. The biggest concern by far was how MARTA managed the system, and what would be needed to add more buses for that area. So now many years later we see that MARTA has done a crappy job of managing their money and costs, just like was feared.

So tell the kind people whether Cobb County got buses or not. You didn't include that part.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Monthly bus passes (in Pittsburgh) cost, atm, 80 bucks. Way cheaper to grab a bus than to drive anywhere.
Same thing here in Atlanta. Many moons ago, Cobb County was invited to join MARTA. They turned it down. Believe it or not, the spectre of black people riding up to Cobb Co and stealing TVs and riding MARTA home with a TV on their shoulders was one of the "talking points" for rejecting joining MARTA. Bear in mind, Newt Gingrich used to live in my subdivision in East Cobb. That is how they think. I'm not joking. They truly are that afraid.




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RE: New Reublican Governor's cut jobs as first act. Why? - 11/7/2010 5:24:49 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Un-fucking-believable....your faith in private industry rivals by far any supposed faith liberals are purported to have in gov'ts ability to solve all problems.You are a mirror image of all you despise.
Amazing.



Actually Mike, I also have a great deal of faith in free enterprise. Americans are great at noting where a buck can be made and doing so. I also believe that safety and fair play need to be monitored and that should be the role of Government. Private industry almost always produces service and product more efficiently and cost effective than does the Government.

As greedy, callous and unfair as free industry has been over the years past it was this concept that actually built America into the powerhouse it was as opposed to those that seemingly think it was the Government.

The very things that built America is now what builds China and India, at least their economies. And look, the Government “runs” China, still they have no great regard for the average Joe's health and personal prosperity. We seem to at least take that into account now-a-days.


The funny thing is we're discussing railroads which hsitorically are some of the best examples that capitalism is not right for all jobs. The transcontinental railroads, and most other rail lines as well, were built by acquiring land through condemnation, i.e. government action, not through free market purchases. Also the various governments subsidized the construction of most of those railroads.

Now the freight haulers move vast quantities of bulk material that would not be feasible to move on the highway system and they do it profitably but if you were to go back and force the railroads to be built not on the best routes but on routes dictated by what land could be bought on the open market I strongly doubt even freight would be viable on teh rails.

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RE: New Reublican Governor's cut jobs as first act. Why? - 11/7/2010 5:28:35 AM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		In some parts of the country a train might make sense. Not here in Wisconsin. We actually have parking lots and unclogged highways. If another state wants this 'free' federal money they can have it. Wisconsinites don't want this train and they let that be known last Tuesday.

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RE: New Reublican Governor's cut jobs as first act. Why? - 11/7/2010 5:32:31 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

OMG, you turn things how you want them. It was a point that was made, and then sensationalized by the media. The biggest concern by far was how MARTA managed the system, and what would be needed to add more buses for that area. So now many years later we see that MARTA has done a crappy job of managing their money and costs, just like was feared.

So tell the kind people whether Cobb County got buses or not. You didn't include that part.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Monthly bus passes (in Pittsburgh) cost, atm, 80 bucks. Way cheaper to grab a bus than to drive anywhere.
Same thing here in Atlanta. Many moons ago, Cobb County was invited to join MARTA. They turned it down. Believe it or not, the spectre of black people riding up to Cobb Co and stealing TVs and riding MARTA home with a TV on their shoulders was one of the "talking points" for rejecting joining MARTA. Bear in mind, Newt Gingrich used to live in my subdivision in East Cobb. That is how they think. I'm not joking. They truly are that afraid.




Bull.

I lived in the Atlanta metro area, in a county without MARTA, back during at least one earlier attempt to expand MARTA and the pols who opposed expanding MARTA were pretty blatant in implying that it would bring inner city "problems" to the suburbs.

The fact is MARTA should be in, at least, Cobb and Gwinnett in addition to Fulton and Dekalb where it is already. Bringing out the trains beyond 285 and the buses out to the edges of the counties would reduce traffic load on the basically failed road system. My brother lives on the far eastern edge of Gwinnet and a rush hour trip into Atlanta is a 2 or 3 hour ordeal. How many more cars can be crammed onto GA 400 before it becomes impossible to make the trip in even 4 hours?

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RE: New Reublican Governor's cut jobs as first act. Why? - 11/7/2010 5:35:57 AM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Monthly bus passes (in Pittsburgh) cost, atm, 80 bucks. Way cheaper to grab a bus than to drive anywhere.
Same thing here in Atlanta. Many moons ago, Cobb County was invited to join MARTA. They turned it down. Believe it or not, the spectre of black people riding up to Cobb Co and stealing TVs and riding MARTA home with a TV on their shoulders was one of the "talking points" for rejecting joining MARTA. Bear in mind, Newt Gingrich used to live in my subdivision in East Cobb. That is how they think. I'm not joking. They truly are that afraid.

That was by far not the main reason it was turned down.  That was only mentioned by morons and hatemongers.  Gwinnett turned it down also.Talks are still going on about the possibility of rail lines along the highway 41 corridor and other key points that could join the counties.

If you find us to be such backwoods, ignorant, scared of progress racists, might I remind you that there are buses leaving daily that can take you to somewhere they share your enlightened world views.

And no I didn't post links.  A quick Google gave hundreds of articles on the subject, going back years, to in the past month or so.

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RE: New Reublican Governor's cut jobs as first act. Why? - 11/7/2010 5:56:59 AM   
FullCircle


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Joined: 11/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
When there is a need for it private industry will build it. And make a profit on it.

Private industry will build it but banks and other private investors aren't going to fund it in the current climate no matter what the demand is, too scared. The other obvious thing being overlooked here when people say: "Oh I can drive there, don't need a train" is the fact that when you are driving you can't do anything else say for example work in-between meetings.


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RE: New Reublican Governor's cut jobs as first act. Why? - 11/7/2010 6:11:15 AM   
EternalHoH


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Joined: 5/30/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Incumbant WI governor Scott Walker ( R ) is putting the brakes on a train that will go 65 miles from Milwaukee to Madison. Cost for the train, 810 million dollars. Once it is built the annual operating cost which will be subsidised by the tax payers is estimated to be 8 to 10 million per year.. Number of full time employees needed to operate this train, 55. This train would be a boondogle and stopping it is the main reason he was elected.



Not if a rail project avoids highway expansion, which would cost alot more than 810 million startup and 8 to 10 a year.

Avoiding highway expansion is why MANY of these short distance, state funded rail services exist.

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RE: New Reublican Governor's cut jobs as first act. Why? - 11/7/2010 6:14:49 AM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		One obvious point the pro train folks seem to overlook. You still have to drive to the train station and pay to park your car, then find other transportation when you get there. In my car I go from point A to point B on my own schedule.

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RE: New Reublican Governor's cut jobs as first act. Why? - 11/7/2010 6:18:46 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

One obvious point the pro train folks seem to overlook. You still have to drive to the train station and pay to park your car, then find other transportation when you get there. In my car I go from point A to point B on my own schedule.

Not being ignored. The train stations were going to be in both cities downtowns which is where the majority of inter city trips go to. This compares quite favorably with airplane flights where the airports are always on the fringes of the urban area and therefore getting downtown, the usual destination, requires additional transportation.

Once again keep in mind that Madison to Milwaukee was the first and central piece of the plan that was to expand to at least Chicago and Minneapolis.

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RE: New Reublican Governor's cut jobs as first act. Why? - 11/7/2010 6:30:58 AM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Amtrac already connects Chicago to Milwaukee to Minneapolis. If someone wants to ride the train, they can do it right now. No need to spend another billion dollars.

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RE: New Reublican Governor's cut jobs as first act. Why? - 11/7/2010 6:32:02 AM   
EternalHoH


Posts: 791
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

Considering how cheap /lb rail is.




Hold on here. Rail infrastructure is NOT cheap. 

*Freight* rail is the ONLY transportation system that is 99% privately funded in its infrastructure.   Because of that high cost of infrastructure maintenance borne by the private sector owners and no taxpayer subsidy that all other modes get (air, interstate highways, barges), the people patronizing passenger trains could never be charged the full cost of a rail journey. In fact, thats why Amtrak was born, all the private sector railroads could no longer charge passengers enough to offset the cost of capital. Amtrak became the government subsidy for rail that correlates to the government subsidy that all other modes get, except with rail it was fashioned as an operational subsidy (government-operated trains haul people) rather than an infrastructure subsidy from the government that other modes get. The infrastructure costs in the rail segment is still privately funded.

If you want to cut Amtrak, fine, then you also need to cut highway subsidies, and then watch your property taxes and fuel taxes and trucking costs skyrocket. Cut airport subsidies, and then watch your plane ticket costs skyrocket.

Here, in the land of capitalism, NO transportation system operates without public subsidy.

It is the sheer 'efficiency' (in a physics/kinetic energy sense) of steel wheel rolling on steel rail, the ability to move high tonnage with limited fuel energy, that allows an unsubsidized freight rail infrastructure to compete with all the other modes that are infrastructure subsidized by the government. This efficiency only pays off when high tonnages are moved, explaining why freight rail hauls bulk goods, and passenger rail is not a high tonnage proposition (which is why it doesn't benefit as much from this efficiency.)




< Message edited by EternalHoH -- 11/7/2010 6:53:30 AM >

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RE: New Reublican Governor's cut jobs as first act. Why? - 11/7/2010 6:33:58 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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quote:

In my car I go from point A to point B on my own schedule.


Not at 300 mph.

I could free lance in Buffalo and NYC.

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RE: New Reublican Governor's cut jobs as first act. Why? - 11/7/2010 6:36:24 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Bull,I too believe in the free enterprise system....but this is not the 19th century any longer.Private concerns built railroads way back when...they did so,in large part,by exploiting cheap immigrant labor,lax safety concerns...and what ammounted to outright thievery where right of way was concerned.
None of those routes would be available today.....building a high speed rail system in todays day and age is only possible,and is rightly so ,the purview of gov't....not private concerns.
Truckin says in effect ...if there is need(profit) in it private sector will step up and build it...even if that is so...is it right?
Let us assume that this could be done.....should it be done.Should private industry own something as essential to the community at large as a high speed rail network?
Should private industry have financed the effort to reach the moon?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: New Reublican Governor's cut jobs as first act. Why? - 11/7/2010 6:53:25 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Un-fucking-believable....your faith in private industry rivals by far any supposed faith liberals are purported to have in gov'ts ability to solve all problems.You are a mirror image of all you despise.
Amazing.


At one point I would have said space exploration was a proper venue for government.
Virgin is proving me wrong even there.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 40
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