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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
No. Really. They haven't. A thinking person would have picked up right away on the sort of responses being received, and altered the tone of the following discussion. Instead you chose to reinforce the credibility gap presented by a series of YouTube videos by acting like a dick.

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ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Nslave, I think you made your point. No, I did not watch the video. One video cannot induce anyone to adopt thinking that is "putside the box" so to speak. It takes decades of having assumptions disproven and other notions shattered, believe me. I would almost say it needs to start at a very ealry age, but don't take that to the bank. I will assert however that the more rigid the thought process the more difficult it is to break down to arrive at the truth.

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Voting is a poor example IMO, because we don't really have free elections. That would require widespread access to the media, which is tightly controlled by those who have everything to gain (they think) by maintaining the status quo. Just try to launch a political campaign and you'll see that directly. Try to buy some airtime. See the avaricious intent of those in power.

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What has happened is that things have become centralized, which works fine when it comes to building an interstate highway system (or could) but it is very detrimental to solving problems on many levels. Mostly this has been accomplished by design, not by accident.

Get back to a campaign. Why is TV advertising so expensive ? Because it is valuable, especially when syndicated. Your message can appear to millions at once. But what of the real cost of doing that ? Well, it has been "bid up" by those who can afford to do so. The result is that the whole system has become bloated and only those with vast resources can utilize the system.

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"They" pick the people for whom we can vote. We do not. I can think of about three politicians for whom I would vote, and I refuse to support the others because none of them wants to rock the boat. To me, they are all the same and all this "debate" in which they engage is simply for show. The process is flawed, and I firmly believe that is by design, and if you want to know by whom, look for those who have gained so much. Power and money.

Greed is the most prevalent undiagnosed addiction in the world in fact, and I would like to see a critical thinker argue against that. So far no takers. It is a game to them being set for life and we have become nothing more than pieces in a game, such as pawns on a chessboard. They really do believe that we pawns should be honored to sacrifice ourselves for Kings, Queens, knights and so forth.

The one thing about greed is that it is contagious. It is spread by desire As well as necessity and it is rampant. Talk about jails full of people who shouldn't be there - many do. Theivery is prevalent among the masses. Another question comes now, if the people in general are so corrupt, would it be almost reasonable to assume that those in power actually do represent them, or is it the other way around ?

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More later. Now I must go work, solving supposedly unsolvable problems. That's what I do, and I can tell you from personal experience that it is very hard to teach, reason being - it requires critical thinking. So, no offense, I just don't think I need the video.

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And thanks for the thread, you have them in an uproar ! They're agruing as much about the video as the idea. Keep up the good work LOL.

T

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ORIGINAL: GotSteel

What he said.

Nslavu, presenting propaganda and ridiculing those who disagree with it isn't a way to improve their critical thinking skills. I'd advise you to present your evidence (without the propaganda) but mostly to spend your time talking about the skill set necessary for critical thinking. After all critical thinking is what you're trying to spread, right? If you take "drones" and indoctrinate them with propaganda to get them to agree with your position you're just making a different kind of "drone".

Critical Thinking - A complex set of cognitive skills employed in problem-solving and intellectual consideration and innovation. Critical thinking requires mental agility and thoughtful consideration: one must, almost simultaneously, be able to process and then analyze what is being presented, to make connections between various bits of information, to draw inferences from what has been stated directly, to question any assumptions and connections made, and to remain generally skeptical until sufficient proof is offered. Practice in critical thinking is designed to make your mind more powerful. This power is something you can apply to any profession and one of the major benefits of taking a humanities class.

In politics a noble lie is a myth or untruth, often, but not invariably, of a religious nature, knowingly told by an elite to maintain social harmony. The noble lie is a concept originated by Plato as described in The Republic. A noble lie, although it may benefit all parties, is different from a white lie since a white lie does not cause discord if uncovered whereas noble lies are usually of a nature such that they would do so.

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

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ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Nslavu, good luck getting those on the left to watch that youtube tape.
Their vacuous little minds are already made up and not programmed to accept any new theory which may disrupt their beliefs.

Fucking amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You have a thread filled with people on both the left and the right denouncing the OP, but somehow you manage to turn it into a partisan issue.

Way to go Popeye!  [sm=applause.gif]

Keep showing us how a moderate Independent thinks.

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ORIGINAL: popeye1250

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

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ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Nslavu, good luck getting those on the left to watch that youtube tape.
Their vacuous little minds are already made up and not programmed to accept any new theory which may disrupt their beliefs.

Fucking amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You have a thread filled with people on both the left and the right denouncing the OP, but somehow you manage to turn it into a partisan issue.

Way to go Popeye!  [sm=applause.gif]

Keep showing us how a moderate Independent thinks.

Rule, I was simply stating fact.
And, I'm not a "partisan," for the umpteenth time I'm an Independant. "Partisan" would be "Dem vs Republican" or "Con vs Lib." "Leftists" are outside that paradigam.
You politically correct goose-stepping leftists/anarchists are incapable of critical thinking, it's like there's one of those invisable dog fences around your brains that give you an electrical shock everytime you stray outside your political comfort zone/ leash area.
Now here's a great example of critical thinking from youtube and it's funny as hell. (However "leftists" probably won't see the humor in it.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWFbjBwEGfM

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

OK, let's start small, with some definitions:

Critical Thinking (lots of definition if you follow the link): 

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Another definition we need to discuss is "the noble lie":

In politics a noble lie is a myth or untruth, often, but not invariably, of a religious nature, knowingly told by an elite to maintain social harmony. The noble lie is a concept originated by Plato as described in The Republic. A noble lie, although it may benefit all parties, is different from a white lie since a white lie does not cause discord if uncovered whereas noble lies are usually of a nature such that they would do so.

Any complaints so far?

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ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Now here's a great example of critical thinking from youtube and it's funny as hell. (However "leftists" probably won't see the humor in it.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWFbjBwEGfM

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ORIGINAL: Nslavu

. Nobility is the ruling class. This ruling class offered you democracy, where supposedly the majority rules.

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ORIGINAL: Nslavu

My change to this would be "for the purposes of controlling society and or misguiding them as to their true potential and or rights". Stratification, class distinction, subjugation, whatever you want to call it is the goal in any use of the Noble Lie. For me the phrase- 'maintaining social harmony' is such a -noble lie- way of presenting it. [:)] It's been taken far beyond benefiting all I think. The noble lie has been expanded upon since Plato first proposed it. Aristotle messed with it, trying to keep the 'harmony' portion in tact or make it even more believable, so that people wouldn't see the inequality in it's use. It's evolved since then as well so nailing the definition for me is difficult. I'd call it conceptually accurate. Hows that?

In politics a noble lie is a myth or untruth, often, but not invariably, of a religious nature, knowingly told by an elite for the purposes of controlling society and or misguiding them as to their true potential and or rights.

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ORIGINAL: DMFParadox

Nslavu. Bro. Listen.

If there were a ruling class in this country, I would be part of it.

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But there's no conspiracy. Just people being people.

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Listen.
If you really want to do something about this.

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I guarantee you, eventually you'll be happy just to bring one person, one, to your level of understanding. That is, if you get any understanding of your own, which I highly doubt.

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I'm thinking deluding himself....and I'm thinking it was a simple job [:)]

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ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Rule, Nancy Pelosi is a conservative republican to the leftists.

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

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ORIGINAL: Nslavu

My change to this would be "for the purposes of controlling society and or misguiding them as to their true potential and or rights". Stratification, class distinction, subjugation, whatever you want to call it is the goal in any use of the Noble Lie. For me the phrase- 'maintaining social harmony' is such a -noble lie- way of presenting it. [:)] It's been taken far beyond benefiting all I think. The noble lie has been expanded upon since Plato first proposed it. Aristotle messed with it, trying to keep the 'harmony' portion in tact or make it even more believable, so that people wouldn't see the inequality in it's use. It's evolved since then as well so nailing the definition for me is difficult. I'd call it conceptually accurate. Hows that?

So, this is what you are talking about, when you say "the noble lie"?

In politics a noble lie is a myth or untruth, often, but not invariably, of a religious nature, knowingly told by an elite for the purposes of controlling society and or misguiding them as to their true potential and or rights.

Firm

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ORIGINAL: Nslavu

I thought all men were created equal? Why then would intelligence or ambition be a factor in determining inequality. This is exactly the Noble Lie. Reasons to set oneself apart from others and pay them more, reasons that one person should enjoy the benefits of life while others should suffer. Why does a baseball player deserve millions while a plumber gets only thousands. Setting up these inequities (fallacies) is the noble lie. Billions of people from those who work at walmart to professionals work their asses off, eeking out a living, yet somehow they aren't intelligent or ambitious enough to be deserving of equality? There isn't room for everyone in this system. It was set up that way, so the nobles (a minority) could reap the majority of the wealth off the backs of the majority of the population.

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Many people don't even want to "make it" in the financial sense.

That doesn't seem the least bit odd to you? A normal logical person (we're talking over 6 billion people here too) concedes their right to human equality, deciding to be poor just because they want to be poor? No, it's more likely they have bought into the noble lie and realize how astronomical the odds are against them becoming even close to equal to those who have 95% of this planet's wealth.

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A few entrepreneurs lucking out means nothing to the old money as you put it. In fact what it means is that they make some money off the backs of common man using tactics and psychology of the noble lie. Being ruthless, not caring about anyone, much less equality as long as they get their share. "I too deserve upper class distinction and should be rewarded for it." Lucky for them there is this large majority of drones who don't see through the bullshit and will continue to try buy their way into the american dream, which isn't necessarily only american anymore.

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It should not be down to chance. Lest we forget ...All men are created equal. After they are created some pin heads create gods, classes, hierarchy, distinctions that defy equality, so they can say they were created 'above' all others. You've been programmed to think that you don't deserve it and that they do because somehow they have more ambition or more intelligence or maybe more luck than you. Might be true, but still they are fallacies meant to take your eye off the equality you deserve.

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ORIGINAL: Nslavu

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

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ORIGINAL: Nslavu

My change to this would be "for the purposes of controlling society and or misguiding them as to their true potential and or rights". Stratification, class distinction, subjugation, whatever you want to call it is the goal in any use of the Noble Lie. For me the phrase- 'maintaining social harmony' is such a -noble lie- way of presenting it. [:)] It's been taken far beyond benefiting all I think. The noble lie has been expanded upon since Plato first proposed it. Aristotle messed with it, trying to keep the 'harmony' portion in tact or make it even more believable, so that people wouldn't see the inequality in it's use. It's evolved since then as well so nailing the definition for me is difficult. I'd call it conceptually accurate. Hows that?

So, this is what you are talking about, when you say "the noble lie"?

In politics a noble lie is a myth or untruth, often, but not invariably, of a religious nature, knowingly told by an elite for the purposes of controlling society and or misguiding them as to their true potential and or rights.

please proceed.

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ORIGINAL: Nslavu

Who was talking about your country? Any America thing in this thread was something another brought up trying to show that sometimes hillbillies hit the big time. It didn't pan out for them as an arguement.

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ORIGINAL: Elisabella

The reason a basketball player gets millions is because he and his teammates make the team billions.

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And no, not everybody is created equal. People range from supergeniuses to mentally disabled. We're not interchangeable cogs.

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When I say most people don't want to "make it" in the financial sense, I mean they don't want to sacrifice the other things that make their life worthwhile in order to attain great wealth.

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The majority of people, I believe, are satisfied enough with being comfortably middle class that they aren't going to go out of their way to work and take risks in order to achieve great financial success.

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You don't seem to be grasping that getting rich takes an exceptional amount of effort. You seem to be looking for the easy way, which is to blame those who are willing to make that sacrifice.

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First of all, the link I gave showed that 68% of the Forbes 400 were entrepreneurs. That's more than "a few lucking out" - even the 'old money' in the US started out as average people turned tycoons/robber barons.

Criticize their methods all you want but there is a pattern.

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I don't "deserve" exceptional wealth for sub-par effort. I spent time at university partying. My work experience is trivial. What on earth makes you think I deserve what Bill Gates has? He is wealthy because he created wealth. He designed new systems, advanced technology, helped make computers ubiquitous in our society. Yeah he's a total dick and he games the system (paying fines is cheaper than avoiding them lol) but he still deserves quite a bit of that money.

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I don't think I'm understanding what you mean by "lest we forget all men are created equal" because in my mind people are decidedly not created equal, not in any sense other than the legal "we're all citizens with basic protections" one. But go on and say that an exceptionally attractive supergenius has the same chance in life as a paranoid schizophrenic with a skin condition. Equal, fair, etc.