RE: Research

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poise -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 9:02:27 AM)
I find it odd that you would want to subject your readers to a storyline that you know so little about. If I may ask, what inspired your desire to want to include bdsm into your original plot?

Inthewoods -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 9:05:03 AM)
I thought the first advice given to a new author was to write about what you know? I fear that a subject so full of nuances as BDSM will be almost impossible to write about plausibly for someone starting with no knowledge at all.

stef -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 9:06:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Twoshoes slaves want someone to take control of their lives. submissives mostly want someone to take control of things related to their sexuality. Was this pulled from the One Twoo Way Guide to BDSM? ~stef

Twoshoes -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 9:08:14 AM)
I don't like labels or being labelled myself... People can call themselves anything they wish as far as I'm concerned.

Inthewoods -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 9:08:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef quote: ORIGINAL: Twoshoes slaves want someone to take control of their lives. submissives mostly want someone to take control of things related to their sexuality. Was this pulled from the One Twoo Way Guide to BDSM? ~stef What the heck does that make me then? laughs

LadyPact -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 9:10:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dewillac Nice response to Camille's post. I'm gathering information as I can from people who know about this. I don't know anything about it; it's not my lifestyle. Any info I can get for my book to make it sound feasible as opposed to sci-fi is what I'm looking for and the best way for me to do that is to go to the source. I'm assuming all of the comments I'm getting are from the source. It's your opinions I need and I'll try to apply them correctly to avoid a disaster or, worse, humor where it's not applicable. Sorry for starting the little war. Don't be concerned for starting it. Trust Me. We're used to these debates around here. The thing is, there is no 'standard answer'. Depending on who you ask, the answers are going to change. Just like non kinky relationships, kinky relationships work depending on the parties involved and what fits in their lives. The questions that you're asking here would be the parallel of asking the people that you know "how do you define a relationship?" For some, they would say being in love, or a person they were having sex with, or somebody that is their best friend. Different levels of commitment, emotional attachment, and other things would color their answers, depending on how they see it. The same thing applies here. While the folks on these boards know (or should know) what they feel their answers are on these questions, they also recognize that someone else who answers may be completely different. Both are right, for themselves and the person they share a dynamic with.

leadership527 -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 9:12:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dewillac I'm already reading them and going to several different sites. I'm amazed that one term (title) can mean so many different things to people. I'll keep going. Thanks! It's actually not that surprising. I would call it an inevitable outgrowth of an unregulated topic being discussed on the internet by a bunch of folks who largely have no practical experience but are extremely focused on hierarchy and status.

SoulcatcherXXX -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 9:13:36 AM)
Madame4a: I wasn't really trying to put Doms down...I was one for a long time too, there's certainly nothing wrong with being a Dom. But also it isn't an easy place to draw the line--when does one stop being a Dom and start being a Master? Does a little angel fly down from heaven and hand us a golden certificate or what? It's really a lot of terminology, yes, and everyone can and should see it in their own way. The main point I was trying to make--and didn't state very well, I'm afraid--is that without the experience of being a Dom a person can never get to the point where anything is mastered, because after all we aren't born knowing those things, they are learned. And to me, being a Dom is when I learned most of the hard stuff, the hard way (want to see someone who thought it would be a great idea to collar six girls at once? I am him). Now I think I can say that I don't make those mistakes nearly as often as I once did, and I have learned so many things about how to interact with slaves, and what generally is effective or not, that the person I am, and the way I treat my slaves, is a lot different now than it was, say, ten or fifteen years ago. After people do things long enough, they get to be pretty good at them...when they are just getting started on the learning curve, they probably won't be very good at any of them. Didn't mean to get involved in a tussle here, I just saw the questions of the OP and there hadn't been many replies so I thought I'd toss in my two cents worth. And two cents is probably just about what it was worth lol.

dewillac -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 9:13:52 AM)
Excellent question. My book is not going to be about BDSM itself, but will have a section, the prolog, to explain the set-up. Specifically: Wife and hubby are married for 9 years, heading for the 10th. He contacts a Master (?) for help because she has suddenly changed. He found out that she's quietly gotten into the BDSM lifestyle and has radically changed. She's begun stealing from her employer, a friend of his. The employer fired her and will be pressing charges. Hubby explains to Master that, although he's a Dom, he hasn't been able to control her and is afraid of his own anger with her to continue trying. But now he's had to take a second mortgage out on the house to pay for her new spending habits with her changed life. He wants to sell her to the Master because mutual friends referred him. So he does. But after getting her, the Master finds out she owns the house (paid cash), she's self-employed (no employer to steal from or to press charges) and she was never in that lifestyle at all. It's a plot by the hubby based on an agreement - if wife is not present for an important meeting on their 10th anniversary, her millions automatically transfer to hubby's control. He's been plotting since the beginning to make her disappear before the meeting and this has been his set-up. I'll take the story further because I have a great plan to get her out of her troubles and turn it all around on the hubby big time! So....too far fetched? Too ridiculous for words? Any feedback no matter how amusing, vicious, etc. Prolog is 5000 words long (18 pages) so I have a lot of ground to cover. Seriously - any feedback?

DMFParadox -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 9:17:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dewillac Thank you for your response. I write romance novels and my first will be published in February. My second book has taken a new direction and involves BDSM. I have actually have several questions. I'm confused about Master vs. Dom. Are they the same? How are they different? Is training required to become a Master? Can one Dom generally see those traits another man? Is it possible that a man could be a Dom and his wife not know? Can a Dom sell a sub? Why? How? How long is the relationship? Why would a relationship end? If the sub wants out, how is that accomplished? If the sub is released from the Dom, can she come back? Can a Dom buy a sub, sell her to another, and on and on? Thank you for any help you can provide to me. Pat February seems like it's the month for publishing things, lately. I wonder why that is. >>I'm confused about Master vs. Dom. Are they the same? Some people make the distinction that a 'Master' is a lifestyle, 24/7 TPE dominant, and a 'Dom' is strictly bedroom. Mostly, it's just whatever label you prefer. I don't like 'Dom' because my name is... well, it gets confusing. >>Can one Dom generally see those traits another man? No, but there are clues. Collars on the girlfriend are a big tipoff. Some tattoos and clothing choices can give a hint; I saw a 'S&M' patch recently that couldn't be more blatant. Generally, you have to advertise if you're going to be known as one. In my day to day life, I'm about as mellow and 'normal' as you can get. Only if you ask me or see me flirting would you get the idea that I approach things a certain way. >> Is it possible that a man could be a Dom and his wife not know? Highly unlikely, but possible. >> Can a Dom sell a sub? It happens, but you're not going to find the people who do this around here. But there are many subs and doms both that are in prostitution; look more towards the porn industry for answers there, or talk to some of the prostitutes who advertise 'BDSM friendly' on backpage.com. As for outright selling 'ownership', you're talking white slave trade. Which also happens, but certainly not in the 'mainstream' of BDSM. You'll have to look into crime that shades into BDSM, not the reverse. >> How long is the relationship? Why would a relationship end? For the normal reasons. The #1 most common is money problems, just like mainstream america. However, in BDSM you also often find relationships ending because one or both partners are not satisfied with their role; either because it's too much that the D wants from the s, or, as seems more common from a poll of the complaints on these boards, not enough effort to put a sub in the mindset they're looking for. >> If the sub wants out, how is that accomplished? Usually? They say 'our marriage is ended' three times. Wait, that's Islam. The usual way is by saying thanks but no thanks, and just leaving. Sometimes after agonizing soul-searching... just like mainstream breakups. >> If the sub is released from the Dom, can she come back? Depends on the D, but if the will is there I see no reason why not. I'd say it's possible if the problems that caused the initial breakup have been resolved, and events reignite the spark. >> Can a Dom buy a sub, sell her to another, and on and on? You already asked this... and in the sense of an outright purchase, not usually. But in the broader sense of someone taking on more of a challenge than they're economically viable for, and losing that challenge to someone who can hold it down, it happens all the time. I don't think that's as romantic a notion as what you were going for, though.

poise -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 9:22:10 AM)
It's an interesting plot. The only issue I have is that I find it highly unlikely that the Master would pay for "damaged goods" in the first place. It would seem more reasonable, although still not realistic, if the Dom Hubby offered to pay the Master for his assistance in gaining control over the wife.

SoulcatcherXXX -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 9:23:30 AM)
"I thought the first advice given to a new author was to write about what you know? I fear that a subject so full of nuances as BDSM will be almost impossible to write about plausibly for someone starting with no knowledge at all." I agree with this. One thing that I'm sure of is that you can't really understand D/s by looking at it from the outside, because appearances can be very deceiving and I think there is no way of knowing, or guessing, at just how deep and personal a D/s relationship can be...you may think you're seeing some jerk trying to feel like a big man by making his woman wear shackles or whatever...but what you actually may be seeing is two souls exploring themselves in ways that just didn't occur to you, and two people who have a strong and lasting relationship in a hundred ways...ways that you won't know from looking at the shackles, and might very well overlook if you tried to guess at them. There's a lot more to it than meets the eye. Just my opinion.

dewillac -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 9:24:24 AM)
I thought about the "damaged goods" part. But I have to make her disappear so helping the hubby gain control of her doesn't work for the plot. She's got to turn it on him and make him go away, which she will. Then she'll move away and start a new life, which is where the rest of the book goes. But her sex life will be limited due to this experience and, well, that's where the romance part comes in and takes over the rest of the book.

DMFParadox -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 9:35:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dewillac Excellent question. My book is not going to be about BDSM itself, but will have a section, the prolog, to explain the set-up. Specifically: Wife and hubby are married for 9 years, heading for the 10th. He contacts a Master (?) for help because she has suddenly changed. He found out that she's quietly gotten into the BDSM lifestyle and has radically changed. She's begun stealing from her employer, a friend of his. The employer fired her and will be pressing charges. Hubby explains to Master that, although he's a Dom, he hasn't been able to control her and is afraid of his own anger with her to continue trying. But now he's had to take a second mortgage out on the house to pay for her new spending habits with her changed life. He wants to sell her to the Master because mutual friends referred him. So he does. But after getting her, the Master finds out she owns the house (paid cash), she's self-employed (no employer to steal from or to press charges) and she was never in that lifestyle at all. It's a plot by the hubby based on an agreement - if wife is not present for an important meeting on their 10th anniversary, her millions automatically transfer to hubby's control. He's been plotting since the beginning to make her disappear before the meeting and this has been his set-up. I'll take the story further because I have a great plan to get her out of her troubles and turn it all around on the hubby big time! So....too far fetched? Too ridiculous for words? Any feedback no matter how amusing, vicious, etc. Prolog is 5000 words long (18 pages) so I have a lot of ground to cover. Seriously - any feedback? Wow... 10 years of marriage? And she's still making money? Why would someone want to kill a sweet deal like that?? Hm. I'd maybe make the husband eastern european, or have connects to. It would make the premise a bit more plausible; if the 'Master' is a russian, and the husband has family ties there, for example. Those guys sometimes do exactly what you're writing, or at least the movie versions of them do. (Though I know a few immigrants who have some nasty life stories...)

DMFParadox -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 9:36:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Inthewoods I thought the first advice given to a new author was to write about what you know? I fear that a subject so full of nuances as BDSM will be almost impossible to write about plausibly for someone starting with no knowledge at all. Meh. I personally feel some of the joy of writing is to get out of your comfort zone, and learn different ways of life.

dewillac -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 9:38:02 AM)
Interesting thought to make the hubby eastern European. Hadn't considered that. So...want to know how she gets even and turns the tables on him?

SoulcatcherXXX -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 9:45:02 AM)
If he's eastern European, I'm guessing she did it the traditional way: with silver bullets and a stake through the heart.

dewillac -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 9:54:38 AM)
Nah, too traditional. Here's how: She’s a writer (wow, what a surprise)! She writes romances under one name and mysteries under another. One of her mystery novels involved the mob. She did her research and actually got very close to a mob boss and his “boys”. When she wrote her book, she had them proof it for her and made corrections based on their edits. Now they handle her money for her and they’re always available when she needs them. When her hubby’s plan is found out, naturally in time for her to attend the all-important meeting, she contacts her mob friends. She explains what happened when she was “sold” and how the Master helped her figure out what was going on. She arranges to attend the meeting, held at the mob’s location, and surprises hubby. She demands a divorce, which he grants. But then she offers him a choice. He can either spend three weeks (the same amount of time she was with the Master) with the mob boys doing anything they want to him, with two restrictions - he cannot be killed outright by them nor can he die from anything they do him. OR, he can let her sell him to her friend, Callie, who will let him go after three weeks if he manages to satisfy her needs. Of course, he won’t know she’s a Mistress, who has the right to sell him to someone else prior to the three week time period. Bottom line is that he can either choose to be beaten up 24/7 for three weeks or he can have sex with Callie with three weeks. Be careful what you wish for!!!!!! This is why I wanted to know if a sub (slave?) can be sold. For a get-back, what do you think? Will this work?

ResidentSadist -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 9:57:08 AM)
Dear OP, In the the BDSM community, Master vs Dom is universally accepted as a relationship role choice. It doesn't take time, training, a special certificate or membership in a secret society. However, there are ranks/titles in the gay Leathermen society that do require an endorsement of peers and come with symbols of that title like caps, vests or patches. Generally speaking, the following is pretty much a universal definition of terms: D/s Domination and submission relationships are a partial power exchange and accepting dominance of one person over another. Mutually negotiated boundaries set the framework. The rewards include the pleasures of service and/or control. A Dominant is the person who takes the superior position in a negotiated control relationship. Dominants can be either sex: Doms or Dommes. A submissive takes the subordinate position in a D/s relationship. The degree of control is negotiated by agreement, they do not have to surrender all control. M/s Master or Mistress & slave relationships based on TPE (total power exchange). Just like D/s, M/s relationships are about filling the need to give or receive control, service or ownership but the boundaries or framework are set by Master/Mistress alone. Also known as 24/7 TPE. A Master or Mistress is a person having control, authority and/or symbolic ownership of a person that obeys them in a TPE. When referring to a "house" or "family" it means the head of a household who employs or holds a contract over another (or others) in their service. A slave, contrary to common belief, does not have to be a submissive or have a submissive personality. However, they are a subordinate that surrenders control in a TPE.

DarkSteven -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 10:05:36 AM)
Since everyone is else disagreeing with soulcatcher... he clearly is using the terms Master and Dom like they're mutually exclusive. I consider all Masters to be Doms and some Doms to be Masters.

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