RE: A Warning to Republicans and Conservatives ... (Full Version)

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rulemylife -> RE: A Warning to Republicans and Conservatives ... (11/13/2010 4:07:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Now, mediocre president, fair enough. Falling short of promise, also fair enough. But even with a voodoo dick, some problems are persistent.


I would tend to disagree with your first two comments.

The problem, I think, is that the expectations of many of his supporters were too high and that the opposition has reinforced those feelings of disappointment.

But those feelings are unfounded pitted against the realities of politics.

Yes, he may have compromised too much but he has also managed to push through an impressive body of legislation in a short time that, while not being ideal, still stayed on track with his campaign promises.






Charles6682 -> RE: A Warning to Republicans and Conservatives ... (11/13/2010 4:17:01 PM)

I think it's safe to say that both Republican and Democtat's have extreme's in their own partie's.My homestate of New York is about a blue as they come.Upstate NY has been ruined by NYC Liberal's.The Democrat's kiss ass to labor union's.The economy is destroyed by insane high taxe's,red tape a mile long and telling people in their personal life what to do.I wouldn't be able to light a firecracker on the 4th of July,because New York state Democrat's know better.On the other hand....... Flordia,where I now live,is very heavily Republican these day's.Republican's basically own every branch of statewide government in Florida.The Republican's here have basically given developer's a de facto "blank check" to do whatever they want.If that mean's destroying important wetland's,o well,who need's those?They pass "faith based"law's that affect everyday Flordian's.They alway's cut funding for education and healthcare,yet they alway's seem to have enoug extra bonus money to give to their "aid's"....... Both side's are extreme in there own way's.... I personally do not vote just because of a party logo.I vote for the person who I feel will do the best job,period.I wish more people would vote that way.Many do..... It's usually the independent's who sway the election's.... I think John McCain would have made a fine President.He served our nation well and he deserve's credit for that.However,when he picked Sarah Palin as his VP,that was the deal breaker for me.That's when I knew I was voting for Obama.




domiguy -> RE: A Warning to Republicans and Conservatives ... (11/13/2010 4:31:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I am rarely wrong.


You claim that quite often here.

Pity it doesn't hold true.


The few times I have been mistaken I have gladly fessed up.

Pity you and yours are incapable of such actions.

Par for the course.




TheHeretic -> RE: A Warning to Republicans and Conservatives ... (11/13/2010 4:36:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

The problem, I think, is that the expectations of many of his supporters were too high and that the opposition has reinforced those feelings of disappointment.





And who built those expectations so high, RML? Remember, "the seas will stop rising, and the planet will begin to heal?" Can you Google the Berlin speech for yourself, or do I need to grab you a link to American Rhetoric?





ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: A Warning to Republicans and Conservatives ... (11/13/2010 7:10:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

It might not be so hard, Panda (and nice to see you!).


Why, thank you, buddy! Same to you!


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
He'll be running against a crazed extreme, racist who will throw all the sick people out of the hospitals, and take away granny's social security check. [;)]


Well, that's true, of course. But still...

As i said, it's way too early for anyone to be taking victory laps, but the way things are shaping up right now the Republicans look as though they may have one huge advantage in '12 - motivated voters. My guess right now is that a significant number of Republicans are angry enough, and hate Obama enough, that when November 2012 comes around they'll crawl across broken glass for the opportunity to vote against him. They'll be camped outside the polling places for a week, like teenage girls waiting for Lady Gaga tickets to go on sale.

On the other hand, Obama has pissed off, disappointed, disillusioned, and just plain betrayed so many voters from his liberal base that a lot of the people who put him over the top 2 years ago just aren't going to be motivated to show up for him again. My best guess at this point in time is that voter turnout will be heavily in the Republicans' favor come 2012, no matter who they run against him.






FirmhandKY -> RE: A Warning to Republicans and Conservatives ... (11/13/2010 7:19:11 PM)

You're right Panda.

He's lost the Washington Post, it seems.

Opinion | One and done: To be a great president, Obama should not seek reelection in 2012
By Douglas E. Schoen and Patrick H. Caddell
Sunday, November 14, 2010

Extract:
President Obama must decide now how he wants to govern in the two years leading up to the 2012 presidential election.

In recent days, he has offered differing visions of how he might approach the country's problems. At one point, he spoke of the need for "mid-course corrections." At another, he expressed a desire to take ideas from both sides of the aisle. And before this month's midterm elections, he said he believed that the next two years would involve "hand-to-hand combat" with Republicans, whom he also referred to as "enemies."

It is clear that the president is still trying to reach a resolution in his own mind as to what he should do and how he should do it.

This is a critical moment for the country. From the faltering economy to the burdensome deficit to our foreign policy struggles, America is suffering a widespread sense of crisis and anxiety about the future. Under these circumstances, Obama has the opportunity to seize the high ground and the imagination of the nation once again, and to galvanize the public for the hard decisions that must be made. The only way he can do so, though, is by putting national interests ahead of personal or political ones.

To that end, we believe Obama should announce immediately that he will not be a candidate for reelection in 2012.

Glad to see you back as well.

Firm




Charles6682 -> RE: A Warning to Republicans and Conservatives ... (11/13/2010 7:23:51 PM)

What about the former governor of New York,George Pataki.He is by no mean's a liberal.It's amazing,he was re-elected in New York state 3 time's in a row.New Yorker's will vote for a Republican at time's.Just a thought.He would probaly carry New York state,which has a huge Eletorial College point's to it.He could probaly win Flordia.I don't think Flordia will win Flordia this year.he would probaly win Texas.He would probaly win every other state that vote's Republican anyway's,regardless of who the candiate is,as long as they have an R next to their name.Would certainly be a shot,at least.




Charles6682 -> RE: A Warning to Republicans and Conservatives ... (11/13/2010 7:26:14 PM)

I meant to say Obama probaly won't win Flordia either.




FirmhandKY -> RE: A Warning to Republicans and Conservatives ... (11/13/2010 7:40:27 PM)

FR:

It looks like the remaining Democratic members of Congress (and specifically the Senate) are getting their licks in as well. 

Joe Scarborough: Top Senate Dems have told me privately that Obama doesn’t know what he’s doing.

Mike Barnicle chimes in with a count of seven Democratic Senate Chairman that have told him the same thing.

And this;

Deficit Panel Leader Tweaks White House
By JANET HOOK and JOHN D. MCKINNON

The Democratic co-chairman [Democrat Erskine Bowles] of a deficit-reduction panel convened by the White House said that the blueprint he unveiled Wednesday was the product of lengthy discussions with Republicans, and he appeared to question past efforts by the administration to engage with the GOP on fiscal matters.

"I told people in the White House I had spent more time listening to people in the opposition party than they had done as a whole group," said Erskine Bowles, in an interview the day after he and Republican co-chairman Alan K. Simpson released a proposal for deep spending cuts and broad tax changes touching almost every aspect of the federal budget.


I thought this part was pretty funny, too:


Throughout his presidency, Mr. Obama has struggled to build bridges to Republicans in Congress, who say the White House refused to take their ideas seriously.

In the interview, Mr. Bowles said he was pleasantly surprised by his experience with the panel's Republicans. Through the work of the commission, he said, "you get to know a guy like Tom Coburn, who's nothing like the caricature that's painted."

Well ... GEEE! ... Republicans don't all eat dead babies and have horns and pitchforks, after all.

Firm




Charles6682 -> RE: A Warning to Republicans and Conservatives ... (11/13/2010 7:41:29 PM)

I think Progressive's and Democrat's need to stop running from their own bill's.They need to remind American's the benefit of this bill's... The main reason Neo-Con hate Obama so much is because he managed to do what no other President could,pass some form of Universal Healthcare.... This is one area I think Obama did a good job.I don't care,call me a Commie,a socialist,I really don't care.I am not foolish enough to fall for that horse shit.... Something had to be done with healthcare.leaving it to the get rich quick jerk's wasn't working.Health Insurance companie's have already been rationing healthcare for decade's now.You get less care these day's for more money.... Countrie's like Canada,England,Italy,France,Japan etc. are hardly commie countrie's..These are Democratic Free nation's that vote for their people as well.Yet,they all have some form of universal healthcare.They pay LESS for healthcare on each person and people in those countrie's have a healthier population....Hmmm,dosen't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out.... It's like FDR said when he signed the civil right's act,The Democrat's have probaly lost the south for a hundred year's.So far,he has been right.. There is a need for government to step in at time's.It took the Federal government to end slavery and jim crow.Clearly,some people left alone,weren't going to end their immoral act's by themselve's... They is a role for government at time's.




Charles6682 -> RE: A Warning to Republicans and Conservatives ... (11/13/2010 7:43:40 PM)

I didn't mean FDR,I meant LBJ.




TheHeretic -> RE: A Warning to Republicans and Conservatives ... (11/13/2010 8:04:19 PM)

Maybe the edit button then, Charles?

Lucky for President Obama the independents with buyer's remorse don't have one of those.




Charles6682 -> RE: A Warning to Republicans and Conservatives ... (11/13/2010 8:30:08 PM)

Obama should pay off a Tea Party member to run on the Independent ticket.He would surely win then!Didn't some Democrat's already try that this year?lol




domiguy -> RE: A Warning to Republicans and Conservatives ... (11/13/2010 8:43:50 PM)

Funny that Joe couldn't remember the name of one of the Senators that he talked to.

Things like that have never stood in Firm's way in formulating his beliefs.




Musicmystery -> RE: A Warning to Republicans and Conservatives ... (11/13/2010 8:53:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

What about the former governor of New York,George Pataki.He is by no mean's a liberal.It's amazing,he was re-elected in New York state 3 time's in a row.New Yorker's will vote for a Republican at time's.Just a thought.He would probaly carry New York state,which has a huge Eletorial College point's to it.He could probaly win Flordia.I don't think Flordia will win Flordia this year.he would probaly win Texas.He would probaly win every other state that vote's Republican anyway's,regardless of who the candiate is,as long as they have an R next to their name.Would certainly be a shot,at least.


Nooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!

Twelve years of stagnant NY growth while the rest of the nation prospered was enough. He didn't run for re-election last time because he had NO shot at winning. Hell, the only reason he got the gig in the first place was as D'Amato's protege. Then there's all the scandals about misappropriated Empire Zone development funds.

Leave the guy in retirement. I beg of you, for the good of your nation.




Charles6682 -> RE: A Warning to Republicans and Conservatives ... (11/13/2010 9:55:57 PM)

There was alot of abuse with the Empire Zone.The intention was well meaning but what you had were companie's lying.They would say they added extra job's when they didn't.They would change their name to a entire different name,so they get the tax benefit's of being a "new" company.David Patterson was right to do away with that program.




Charles6682 -> RE: A Warning to Republicans and Conservatives ... (11/13/2010 10:03:50 PM)

New York state need's to do away with Sheldon Silver.This guy is Nancy Pelosi on steroid's.He truly is a socialist as far as I'm concerned.Whether people have to remove him by voting him out of his district,the Assembly Femocrat's vote him out or Republican's win the Assembly,he need's to go.He is a true creaure of Albany.He block's or stall's any growth in New York state.He's been Speak long enough,he need's to go.




TheHeretic -> RE: A Warning to Republicans and Conservatives ... (11/13/2010 11:24:32 PM)

So many things can happen between now and the first Tuesday in November, 2012...

The Republicans can go a long way towards sealing the deal if they play the cards right. They need to be sober, grown-ups, to begin with. Turn Issa loose on the collection of czars, by all means. Follow the money, but don't ever let the words, "birth certificate," come into the discussion. The House of Representatives never even tried for a budget last year and that is where they should hold the Dems feet in the fire for dereliction of duty. So nice of Nancy to stick around as the whipping boy for that. The first bill they put up should be to kill the Ford, not Obamacare

It may happen, but I really don't want to count on the Obama Administration failing in a permanent crisis of competence. It would get him cleaning the dog poo off the Rezco Lawn for himself, but it isn't something I will wish on the country, or the rest of the world for that matter.




rulemylife -> RE: A Warning to Republicans and Conservatives ... (11/14/2010 4:53:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

The problem, I think, is that the expectations of many of his supporters were too high and that the opposition has reinforced those feelings of disappointment.



And who built those expectations so high, RML? Remember, "the seas will stop rising, and the planet will begin to heal?" Can you Google the Berlin speech for yourself, or do I need to grab you a link to American Rhetoric?



You said it right there, the problem is the rhetoric.

Actually, not the rhetoric but the the people who do not have the common sense to realize that politicians will spout rhetoric, and the politicians may actually believe what they say until they are faced with the realities of how difficult their goals are to achieve.

So now we have liberals pissed off that Obama did not solve every problem facing the country in less than two years, and we have conservatives who are pissed off because..........well...........they are conservatives, and you guys are always pissed off about something.







Musicmystery -> RE: A Warning to Republicans and Conservatives ... (11/14/2010 9:58:43 AM)

quote:

Falling short of promise


Just to clarify, rml, I'm talking about "promise" in the sense of falling short of perceived potential, not campaign promises.

I agree with you that much has been accomplished. But these are the big leagues, and so far at least, he hasn't been up to the kind of leadership he envisioned, and as yet shows no sign of getting better at all. I hope he has the sense to shake up his staff before the State of the Union, but so far (while he still has time, of course), he's mainly circled the wagons.

Granted, his agenda took a mortal blow immediately following the 2008 election with the news about the economy. But you know, he seems to have been caught off guard by that, apparently concentrating entirely on the campaign instead.

He needs to face facts--he doesn't have the kind of leadership pull that's going to bring people together via vision alone. I think those who criticize that his ego is in the way here have a point. He's going to have to learn to work Congress hands on. He's going to have to go outside his circle, swallow his pride, and listen to the half of Democrats who supported Hilary. He's going to have to realize that he faces an entire country, and that the main problem right now is not policy or politics, but uncertainty. THAT strong leadership could start to address, and with certainly, whatever that meant, business and people would get getting back to business and regular economic activity.

I do think he has mitigated what could have been worse problems, from credit to unemployment to health care. But they ARE half measures, from "does no real harm" to "moderate success." Perhaps that's all that's possible now--arguable, I suppose. And granted, the opposition has no ideas either, beyond reclaiming power. Nonetheless, compared to the vision of the campaign--mediocre. Not bad. Certainly nothing great, beyond finally getting something on health care--and again, flawed.




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