RE: Hanky Spanky

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NakedSenses -> RE: Hanky Spanky (11/15/2010 8:16:15 AM)
An interesting remark about our friends based in Montreal. I spent quite some time up there "Fet'ing around" until the site became a bit too swollen with members whose contributions didn't seem to be adding much. But it's very friendly and great for newcomers and others exploring the fad and fashion of BDSM, or WIITWD, as I like to call it. Being of the "Old Guard" generation I do prefer their ideas to a more laissez-faire and unstructured approach, or worse, the factionalization that is splitting the community-at-large into just more "Special Interest Groups". (I presume that whoever said "fractal" above was actually referring to "faction", because this isn't a math class.) In my opinion, the "big splits" are in the three major generations and their respective outlook on life, which has to deeply influence their view of this particular activity. And the communication breakdown I see that is making even the exchange of basic ideas nearly impossible is horrific to me.

DesFIP -> RE: Hanky Spanky (11/15/2010 8:36:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NakedSenses Being of the "Old Guard" generation You need to fix your profile. Since we all know the Old Guard were the gay leathermen who came out of World War II. Your profile says you're 30 years younger than that.

LaTigresse -> RE: Hanky Spanky (11/15/2010 12:52:28 PM)
[:D]

Twoshoes -> RE: Hanky Spanky (11/15/2010 4:01:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious Questions like 'how do I balance my need for touch with my partner's need for space?' are much more universal. So, how do you?

BonesFromAsh -> RE: Hanky Spanky (11/15/2010 5:47:09 PM)
Well, sunshine, I think you've got your answer. Now, go back to your corner, little girl. [8\|]

sunshinemiss -> RE: Hanky Spanky (11/15/2010 6:07:57 PM)
~FR~ I'm surprised that so many of you think that D/s in the bedroom is so simple and easy. The responses here are exactly my point. You think that is so ecause it is not what you do. It's not so simple and easy for people in the midst of it. It's not unworthy of discussion. It's just not accepted here. The majority of responses are examples of why it's not talked about. In a TPE relationship, things are black and white, yes or no. There isn't wiggle room for angst, for personal introspection. The rules and roles are defined and clear. To me that is what is simple. People have cut and dry, pat answers because that's how TPE is. Those people who partake in less rigid interactions have more things to discuss because roles are not a given. It's like looking at the moon - when it is full or new, it is basic. There is nothing more there but what is there, but when the moon is waxing or waning, when it's not simply yes or no, that's when the great mystery of the skies happens. Thank you to the folks who responded in a thoughtful and open minded manner. I actually have seen the boards become more and more closed to non-TPE people. This thread is an excellent example of why. best, sunshine

January -> RE: Hanky Spanky (11/15/2010 6:57:59 PM)
quote: I actually have seen the boards become more and more closed to non-TPE people. Your observation is making me sad, Sunshine. I really don't see the boards the same way. But I don't want you to be unhappy or feel alone. I am not TPE. I'm not strictly a bedroom D/s either. I'm a happy bedroom bottom. And the subjects I'm most interested in--like balancing BDSM and children--I think I have just as much wisdom to offer as any 24/7 master/slave unit. About the only thing I miss on collarme is a nice juicy intellectual discussion about how one can be a sub and a feminist. January

sunshinemiss -> RE: Hanky Spanky (11/15/2010 8:06:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: January quote: I actually have seen the boards become more and more closed to non-TPE people. Your observation is making me sad, Sunshine. I really don't see the boards the same way. But I don't want you to be unhappy or feel alone. I am not TPE. I'm not strictly a bedroom D/s either. I'm a happy bedroom bottom. And the subjects I'm most interested in--like balancing BDSM and children--I think I have just as much wisdom to offer as any 24/7 master/slave unit. About the only thing I miss on collarme is a nice juicy intellectual discussion about how one can be a sub and a feminist. January Hi January - Just for the record, I'm not alone nor am I unhappy. Disappointed might be a better word. This community - such as it is here on CollarMe - has a strong lean toward the 24/7 slant of things. Some earlier comments were pretty dismissive in many ways, but at least we are talking about it. Part of what has arisen is that I noticed that new folks are often given responses that are about 20 steps way further than where they are. People give 24/7 TPE answers to fun, how do we do "this" kinds of threads. People are expected to go off and do research and read books instead of sharing our knowledge and perspective. We hear "I just do what I'm told" in response to questions that are about the ebb and flow of play / equality which does not address a huge portion of the population. That is what I'm talking about. No, I don't just do what I'm told, and be golly, I want to talk about how to go back and forth between the "equal partners" and the "hanky spanky". Even some of the old nuggets - what to look for in a dom, how to know when to use a safe word, what is a submissive really anyway - are actually good questions that could be talked about in a less judgmental, intellectual way. That kind of thing is what I see and it is that real questions are being responded to with 24/7 TPE blinders on... that or things desintegrate into flirtation and silliness (both of which I too am guilty of). I agree that there are a number of questions that can be raised - feminism is a big one and is an umbrella term for many of them. Jeff's question about the responsibility of women / men in situations that are potentially disturbing and done in other circumstances illegal is a good one. I think of sodomy here as well - the people who can be arrested for anal sex - at what point does the law step into our bedrooms and what is personal freedom? The difference between the spirit of the law and the letter of the law kind of thing. And the other side of the feminism question - what is it like to be a man, to know women are afraid of you, to know that your actions can be misinterpreted and you can become a name on a Megan's law list. There are a lot of grey areas... but not really welcome here on CM. Oh sure, people give lip service to "everyone is welcome" but in reality the non-TPE questions are often dismissed or ridiculed or not given well-thought out responses. That's what disappoints me. Thank you for the response. And Jeff, why not start that thread which you wrote such a long response to January about? She put up a quick question, you put up a paragraph. Clearly it is something that is on your mind. best, sunshine

Twoshoes -> RE: Hanky Spanky (11/15/2010 9:38:31 PM)
Sunshine, you are correct in that most answers are along those lines. At the same time, I've realized recently that when people give me power over situations, I'm likely to apply my own value system. My own value system includes 'equality'. It's the same thing when I'm told to lead a group of people (which I'm not that good at, but it has happened). I immediately apply 'equality' to the situation. As far as Hanky Spanky goes, anything goes in my mind. Part of being all Domly-minded is that I'm unlikely to be convinced to apply a value system different than mine when it's up to me. I do answer a lot of threads from my perspective. [8D] If someone proposed 24/7 to me, I'd just reply I have better things to do for most of my 24 hours.

TreasureKY -> RE: Hanky Spanky (11/16/2010 7:46:52 AM)
Sunshine... I've definitely experienced a similar feeling. In fact it's probably why I don't post more often... my views and opinions would be seen as "too vanilla". How many times do we see someone's opinion or answer dismissed with something like, "that can happen in any relationship" or "that's no different than what anyone would do in a vanilla relationship." I would hazard a guess that the majority of my posts (outside of politics and religion) are in threads where someone is seeking "relationship" advice. Unfortunately I just can't participate well in a thread asking for ideas on needle play or one where someone wants advice on how to tolerate more pain. And while there have been and continue to be many relationship related threads, there always seems to be one poster who comes along to say, "what does this have to do with BDSM?" Lord only knows how many threads I could have started, but didn't because it really didn't fit under the "General BDSM" forum, and I didn't really feel it was "Off Topic". I don't know... maybe a "Relationship Issues" forum would help. [sm=dunno.gif]

CreativeDominant -> RE: Hanky Spanky (11/16/2010 8:12:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss ~FR~ I'm surprised that so many of you think that D/s in the bedroom is so simple and easy. The responses here are exactly my point. You think that is so ecause it is not what you do. It's not so simple and easy for people in the midst of it. It's not unworthy of discussion. It's just not accepted here. The majority of responses are examples of why it's not talked about. This is why...in my first post... I suggested the idea of bringing to the Mods a request for a "Bedroom-Only" forum. Perhaps a "Relationship Issues" forum as Treasure suggested would be helpful. quote: In a TPE relationship, things are black and white, yes or no. There isn't wiggle room for angst, for personal introspection. The rules and roles are defined and clear. To me that is what is simple. People have cut and dry, pat answers because that's how TPE is. Those people who partake in less rigid interactions have more things to discuss because roles are not a given. O.K., first off...things are NOT so easy in TPE dynamics. If they were, there would not be the plethora of threads that there are on these boards about A. Master/Sir said this or that and B. I, the submissive tried to do it/disagreed with it and fucked up/am being punished for disagreement and C. I think it's wrong because he promised we would discuss hard things/because he knew it was difficult/because I had no idea that I would balk at that level of control and I need guidance instead of punishment. As I noted in my first post, 24/7 D/s dynamics run the gamut from those structured with many rules to those structured with few rules...from those wherein discussion is permitted to those in which it is not to those in which the circumstances for discussion vary. Because of this, many of these relationships appear...from the outside...to be just like any other couple. Not every submissive yields without question every time and not every dominant...including me (though I KNOW that's a surprise) gets it right in their guidance/orders/leadership in every single instance. .. If we did...we'd allllllll still be with our first submissive/dominant. People are people, no matter the "roles" within the relationship dynamic and...sometimes, as noted yesterday...other factors (the past, interactions which include observations of others within the community, etc) come into play. Despite our best intentions of just letting this relationship "flow"...without outside interference or past recollections...it can't be done. quote: It's like looking at the moon - when it is full or new, it is basic. There is nothing more there but what is there, but when the moon is waxing or waning, when it's not simply yes or no, that's when the great mystery of the skies happens. Thank you to the folks who responded in a thoughtful and open minded manner. I actually have seen the boards become more and more closed to non-TPE people. This thread is an excellent example of why. best, sunshine Funny...I have actually seen myself, though I know I can't speak for others, open up more to those who just want to play at it in the bedroom. That is not a partner for me because the "deconstruct and disconnect" from having "all" power there to a very limited-in-scope role outside the door would be too much...but that doesn't mean I disrespect those people any longer. you have to remember though, sunshine...tis difficult to imagine that scenario when that is not the way you live. It is not necessarily a dismissal always as a difficulty in grasping the specific interactions.

January -> RE: Hanky Spanky (11/16/2010 9:10:11 AM)
~FR~ Having a separate "Bedroom only" forum would really bother me. Segregation! Stick us in the vanilla section? Even worse is a "relationship" forum. TPE or not, BDSM is about relationships. Love or no love. Happiness or no happiness. Fulfillment or no fulfillment. Oh, and "bedroom" doesn't in my mind (or experience) rule out edgeplay--or subspace--or other subjects discussed by the more "extreme" players. Anyway, I'm, hoping daddysprop will post in this forum. She is often disappointed with the response to her posts. I recall her saying the boards were quite hostile and dismissive of her TPE relationship. So I think she might not agree with the view that there is a TPE bias on the boards. January

LadyPact -> RE: Hanky Spanky (11/16/2010 10:08:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: January Oh, and "bedroom" doesn't in my mind (or experience) rule out edgeplay--or subspace--or other subjects discussed by the more "extreme" players. Absolutely agreed. I think it's a mistake to believe that those who are only playing in the bedroom are doing some version of BDSM lite. quote: Anyway, I'm, hoping daddysprop will post in this forum. She is often disappointed with the response to her posts. I recall her saying the boards were quite hostile and dismissive of her TPE relationship. So I think she might not agree with the view that there is a TPE bias on the boards. January I agree with this as well. I see it quite often in relation to rigid M/s dynamics, obedience based arrangements, or those of us who identify as leather. It might not be noticed as much by the folks who don't see their dynamic as similar to that type of category, but I can promise you that it's out there.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Hanky Spanky (11/16/2010 10:47:31 AM)
FR (not directed at any particular person over any other particular person.) This reminds me of the conversation Julia had with two-ff's Jeff on a thread once about biases-she was adamant that there was an anti-femsub bias on the forums and he was adamant that there was an anti-maledom bias. This place is full of victim mentalities, and with all due respect to those of you who feel there's a bias against you, the boards are big enough and varied enough that there's a bias against everyone from some camp or other. We're not five-year-olds, there are no teachers telling us everyone has to like each other, because now we're (supposedly) big enough to realise that not everyone is going to like each other. So either you allow others to stifle the sort of debate you want to have or you get on with it, because (even from people I have a great deal of respect for) complaining about how not everyone likes your dynamic is still complaining, and complaining is not likely to instil respect or tolerance from anyone. (This post sounds kind of grumpy. That's because I am kind of grumpy, much as I was when Julia and Jeff were having this argument. Can you people not hear yourselves?)

kiwisub12 -> RE: Hanky Spanky (11/16/2010 11:48:18 AM)
Having been in a D/s 24/7 relationship, and now in what is basically a bedroom D/s relationship, i think for me that the hanky spanky relationship is more difficult. In the D/s 24/7 all i had to do was follow the rules and i knew my dom was happy. I was happy. Everyone was happy. And if he wasn't, it was his responsibility to tell me and amend the rules. With the dom-in-the-bedroom i have to think more out of said bedroom. I can't assume that he will tell me that i am screwing up, so for me, it is more stressful. If i was the issue sort of person, i would definitely have more issues with my present relationship - which for me is pretty funny. I would have thought the 24/7 would be the angsty relationship, if you had asked me 6 years ago. Life is very odd.

daddysprop247 -> RE: Hanky Spanky (11/16/2010 12:10:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss ~FR~ I'm surprised that so many of you think that D/s in the bedroom is so simple and easy. The responses here are exactly my point. You think that is so ecause it is not what you do. It's not so simple and easy for people in the midst of it. It's not unworthy of discussion. It's just not accepted here. The majority of responses are examples of why it's not talked about. In a TPE relationship, things are black and white, yes or no. There isn't wiggle room for angst, for personal introspection. The rules and roles are defined and clear. To me that is what is simple. People have cut and dry, pat answers because that's how TPE is. Those people who partake in less rigid interactions have more things to discuss because roles are not a given. It's like looking at the moon - when it is full or new, it is basic. There is nothing more there but what is there, but when the moon is waxing or waning, when it's not simply yes or no, that's when the great mystery of the skies happens. Thank you to the folks who responded in a thoughtful and open minded manner. I actually have seen the boards become more and more closed to non-TPE people. This thread is an excellent example of why. best, sunshine wow, i really really wish that i could take a peek at whatever message board you've been reading. this board is hardly "TPE"-centric. there may be a lot of discussion geared toward full-time relationships as opposed to more casual encounters, but that is something different. however i do see quite a bit of discussion focused on specific bdsm activities and sexual acts...sometimes too much for my own comfort, and i have to step away from the boards for a bit as i'm coming from a very different place. anywho, January is very much correct...i have often not felt welcomed or comfortable discussing certain core aspects of my relationship here. the reality is that "stricter" M/s-type relationships are not understood or accepted by most here. further i don't believe that D/s folks who identify as D or s based on personality and not as a specific relationship orientation or choice are understood or accepted much here either. i'm not really sure what you mean by "d/s in the bedroom," but i would never claim that such a sexuality was "simple." as for your personal belief that TPE is so simple, with no issues to discuss and nothing to worry about, i find that offensive to the highest degree.

sunshinemiss -> RE: Hanky Spanky (11/16/2010 3:00:33 PM)
Hello everyone - If stricter relationships are not being discussed at the level you'd like, start a thread, discuss it. I think that would be fascinating. I'd gladly participate. VC - discussion is not complaining. It's posts like yours that dismiss what is being discussed that clearly show my point. I appreciate you giving such a good example at this juncture. prop - I believe you may not realize that I've actually done the 24/7 TPE relationship (more than once I might add). I'm speaking from my experience. kiwisub stated the simplicity very clearly: quote: In the D/s 24/7 all i had to do was follow the rules and i knew my dom was happy. You can be offended, but obviously, I'm not the only one who thinks it's simple - "all I had to do".... ********* I've brought up an issue that resonates with a number of people. It's an interesting discussion (barring the dismissive "you just don't understand us" / "stop complaining" posts). It's great to know that there are other folks thinking along the same lines as I have been. I really appreciate that. I had thought of only one or two other people with my perspective prior to this thread, but now I see there are quite a few people who are in the same boat. Thanks so much! I can't tell you how good it is to know that! Best, sunshine *grammar... grrr

littlewonder -> RE: Hanky Spanky (11/16/2010 3:13:29 PM)
I'm another in agreement with prop. I always feel that I don't really ever belong around these parts because most of the forums seem to be geared towards bdsm activities, playing, casual affairs, subs, doms, switches, etc...and not so much for slaves and TPE. When anyone speaks about being a slave to the point that they give everything over to their Master almost everyone chimes in with "I would never cut my hair/change my dress/give up my job/my family/etc...for him". And also felt a bit offended by the view that tpe is easy. I admit it's not always so easy for me. I don't always just have to do what he says. I have to learn to anticipate, to know what he wants without him having to tell me, I have to make sure I don't lose my humanity, to be able to continue to be a fully functioning individual with other people, to keep from being completely submissive to others because to be honest it's hard to do when you're surrender completely to your partner. You forget that outside of him you can be taken advantage of and walked over. You have to revert to faking strength for the masses. When I was younger and did just the bottoming/playing/sub/casual thing it was much easier for me. If I didn't want to do something I simply didn't do it. I could say no and walk away. I could discuss with the person I was playing with that this is how it's going to be, this is what I'm looking for and when I say I'm done then I'm done and don't call me, I'll call you. To me that was much much simpler.

sunshinemiss -> RE: Hanky Spanky (11/16/2010 3:17:24 PM)
It's interesting how a thread about Hanky Spanky has become a thread about TPE. I rest my case. best, sunshine

daddysprop247 -> RE: Hanky Spanky (11/16/2010 3:23:37 PM)
sunshinemiss, no matter how different or isolated we may feel, there will always be others...somewhere...who can relate to our experiences, opinions, beliefs, feelings, etc. i have no reason not to believe that you have lived in a TPE relationship (have to say, i really really dislike the term "TPE"). and if it was simple for you, if you never had any internal struggles or angst or fears or anxieties or anything of the sort, then kudos to you, and please pass on to me whatever magic tips you clearly have. one thought your OP raised for me was, most of us probably feel like our voices are under-represented here, just because this is such a hugely diverse group of people and lifestyles. likewise most of us are probably somewhat sensitive to any form of exclusion, or any negative judgment in relation to who we are or how we live. i know i'm guilty of that...it does become easy to feel like a "victim" as VC mentioned. as for your suggestion that those living in more rigid power dynamics start more threads on the subject, it has been done and probably will continue to be done. but the overwhelming majority of the time such discussions lead to much drama and negativity from the many who don't understand and refuse to accept.

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