RE: Question to pro-Dommes and ex-pro-Dommes

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LadyHibiscus -> RE: Question to pro-Dommes and ex-pro-Dommes (11/15/2010 9:16:39 AM)
The super icky creepy guys will be found in big quasi-public spaces that allow full nudity and sex. Here we just have the creepy guys that hover and wank in corners. Honestly, LP, I think that you're just not looking very hard! :)

PeonForHer -> RE: Question to pro-Dommes and ex-pro-Dommes (11/15/2010 9:18:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer Sadly, I've heard it, and seen it. It's rare to nonexistent at a true community event that has decent filters, but I've been to some clubs in Los Angeles and worked DM shifts at a club in San Francisco where there were guys who ran around trying to get the women to do X fetish activity with them in a remarkably rude, creepy, disrespectful way . . . . Whoa. That bears no relation to my experience of clubs here, LNT - not even those clubs where events have turned into pretty much all-out orgies.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Question to pro-Dommes and ex-pro-Dommes (11/15/2010 9:21:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Whoa. That bears no relation to my experience of clubs here, LNT - not even those clubs where events have turned into pretty much all-out orgies. As far I can tell it's a crossover with the fetish crowd that seems to attract that kind of guy here-I'm guessing the majority of clubs you went to were play clubs? (I've seen most of the things she's mentioned.)

PeonForHer -> RE: Question to pro-Dommes and ex-pro-Dommes (11/15/2010 9:32:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Whoa. That bears no relation to my experience of clubs here, LNT - not even those clubs where events have turned into pretty much all-out orgies. As far I can tell it's a crossover with the fetish crowd that seems to attract that kind of guy here-I'm guessing the majority of clubs you went to were play clubs? (I've seen most of the things she's mentioned.) Gawd, at the time, I went to any and every kind club. I'm not even sure I registered a distinction between 'fetish' and other styles of venue. They seemed to be a bit of everything. But in common was the fact that even very sexual kinds of things happened in the open. You certainly would see e.g. people wanking - at the sight of a couple making love - but they'd ask first. I suspect that if I didn't notice these squicky things occurring, it was for somewhat similar reasons to those of my not knowing about the nasty cmails women get on CM. I just wasn't looking for such things and it didn't cross my mind that they'd happen. The rules about etiquette seemed clear and firmly enforced.

LadyNTrainer -> RE: Question to pro-Dommes and ex-pro-Dommes (11/15/2010 9:51:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I think we've touched on something here that you and I have discussed in a round about way before. It may be exactly why I don't have this personal experience. One of these days, you'll have to tell Me on the other side exactly which places to avoid that I seem to be doing right. I've almost never personally seen that behavior outside of Los Angeles or San Francisco at specific venues. I have seen it in several venues in those locations which attempted to be more open and commercial and advertise in local alternative lifestyle magazines which were heavily read by swingers. Effectively they were trying for a hybrid bathhouse/kink venue, or in one case a hybrid bar and kink venue, and in another case a hybrid swinger's resort and kink venue, and the results were an ugly culture clash. I don't think any of the venues survive to this day, so naming names is probably an exercise in futility.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Question to pro-Dommes and ex-pro-Dommes (11/16/2010 4:08:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus Even working as a pro, there were kinks I wouldn't do. The whole adult baby market is a cash cow, but it's TOTALLY not me. There were other things too, they're not relevant here. I went into pro work as a very experienced top, so in terms of learning new skills, I'll say I didn't learn a ton. What pro work did was exercise my imagination. Many fantasists have very tightly scripted fantasies, and hitting the high points every time was vital. Making thw same damn thing new and interesting every time was a challenge! I don't know if it made me more tolerant, you have to be pretty open minded to be successful as a pro dom. If the ladies on the boards think they get oddball emails, well those are NOTHING compared to what a pro dom gets! I will say that working with so many different people gave me a lot of perspective, and a certain understanding of the fetishist mindset. I think there is a difference, you can be very experienced as a top but the difference between lifestyle and professional work is like 2 different worlds, if you're playing privately, you do pretty much what you want to do, when somebody is paying, you have to facilitate his fantasies, the difference between being a great hobby cook and working as a chef in an upscale restaurant, you might not be in the mood for cooking a Boeuf Stroganoff or doing the 10th Boeuf Stroganoff this day, you still have to deliver, if you're a hobby cook you cook what you're in the mood to cook. Tight scripts don't work for me, just like AB is just not my thing, I think it's pretty important to not try to appeal to everybody but to the clients you want and who's kink meshes with yours or else you really burn out and lose all enjoyment, which the clients will notice pretty soon. It did make me more tolerant because of the many different fantasies you hear about, even if they are not for you, it really gives you a new perspective, but I think being active in the lifestyle can do that too. As to the oddball emails, oh hell, yes. I certainly don't miss those, but in general I found a lot of the guys who came as clients more polite than the guys who expect you to just jump because they happen to be submissive and they offer you their bodies... One of the main differences are, that if a guy approaches you here or at a life-style event and you politely tell him that you don't mesh, they often try to convince you or get nasty, when I was approached as a pro for a session and it was something I didn't do, I said so and - depending if I could help him - suggested somebody I knew who'd be better suited for that, it was usually a friendly "Thank you for your time and help" but hardly ever the temper tantrums some life-style guys deliver if they don't get their way.

PeonForHer -> RE: Question to pro-Dommes and ex-pro-Dommes (11/16/2010 4:32:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze Many fantasists have very tightly scripted fantasies, and hitting the high points every time was vital. Making thw same damn thing new and interesting every time was a challenge! I don't get that. Why are their fantasies so tightly scripted? Did they offer reasons? See, one of the reasons why I started this thread is because I've got this hypothesis that the way forward for people whose kinks have become too restrictive to them - such that they can't find partners, their lives become generally miserable as a result - is not to try to 'cure' the kink by driving it away, nor to try to swap it for something else, but to build, or expand upon it. The point is to free up the mind. The kink will still be there, but it'll be flexible enough to enable such a person to connect with someone else.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Question to pro-Dommes and ex-pro-Dommes (11/16/2010 4:41:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious Oh, sure-I'm not at all denying the existence of creepy men-it's just that we tend to call them 'creepy men' rather than using the 'do-me' label. But I'm pretty sure that's not the type of man Peon's talking about Prodommes going easy on-waving your dick in people's faces/kissing someone's boots when they don't even know you're there (which actually happened to me-I thought it was my friend's leg hooked over mine [:'(]) is a whole different level of bleugh... But that's also a cultural thing, in most European fetish clubs those guys are told by security to stop bothering women, it still happens but they are well, just like the creepy guys in public transportation who brush past you in a rather inappropriate way. I think we all met the odd guy who starts slobbering over your boots without being invited, they're creeps and if they don't stop when told to, a quick complain to the staff there sorts it. Though there were some funny occurrences in the US (I'm sure they could have happened in Europe too but didn't), like guys telling you they want to serve you by lighting a cigarette and try to persuade you to go outside so they can light your cigarette, you tell them that you don't smoke and he acted like a toddler with "But I want to serve you by lighting your cigarette..." Made we want to take up smoking again so I could grind it out on his forehead... Or some guy wanting to be used as a toilet, you tell him not your thing, and he'll follow you about telling you he wants to serve (possibly his idea of serving is being a pest). I really never encountered it so much in Europe, it happened sometimes but I think organizers discourage that behaviour because it drives women away from venues, due to a different legal situation, there are a lot more different events to pick from and if at one event word gets out that women are bothered by creepy guys, they won't go there, and if no women go to an event it dies quietly away.

PeonForHer -> RE: Question to pro-Dommes and ex-pro-Dommes (11/16/2010 4:49:39 AM)
FR OK, so what are clubs like in the rest of the English-speaking world re rules? LadyConstanze's experience matches mine - every club I've used has had clear rules regarding not bothering people. You don't spend a night at these clubs without being made very aware of them.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Question to pro-Dommes and ex-pro-Dommes (11/16/2010 4:51:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze Many fantasists have very tightly scripted fantasies, and hitting the high points every time was vital. Making thw same damn thing new and interesting every time was a challenge! I don't get that. Why are their fantasies so tightly scripted? Did they offer reasons? See, one of the reasons why I started this thread is because I've got this hypothesis that the way forward for people whose kinks have become too restrictive to them - such that they can't find partners, their lives become generally miserable as a result - is not to try to 'cure' the kink by driving it away, nor to try to swap it for something else, but to build, or expand upon it. The point is to free up the mind. The kink will still be there, but it'll be flexible enough to enable such a person to connect with someone else. Lady Hib made that comment, I just quoted her. It's a bit like role play, in general I like it, but if somebody has it too tightly scripted I feel constraint, he doesn't need a domme for that, he needs an actress I think, but there is nothing wrong with it, because there will be somebody who doesn't mind fulfilling his kink this way and possibly enjoys it too. What triggers a response or how a kink works is often nothing the person can decide, so in a way I do understand that they might want to have it fulfilled in a certain way, I just might not have been the right person to fulfill them.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Question to pro-Dommes and ex-pro-Dommes (11/16/2010 4:59:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer FR OK, so what are clubs like in the rest of the English-speaking world re rules? LadyConstanze's experience matches mine - every club I've used has had clear rules regarding not bothering people. You don't spend a night at these clubs without being made very aware of them. I have only been to clubs and fetish parties in the UK, France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Canada and the US, in Europe pretty much the same all over. Fetish clubs try to differentiate themselves from swinger clubs, there might be sex happening but there are special rooms and somebody "trying to get it on" in other rooms will quickly be told to move it into the play area, the couples room (where single guys have no entrance - to avoid the wankers in the corners). They usually have signs up with all the rules and the clubs are run like clubs, i.e. you have to become a member and sign that you agree to the rules of the club and in case you breach them that you will get expelled and lose your membership.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Question to pro-Dommes and ex-pro-Dommes (11/16/2010 4:59:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze But that's also a cultural thing, in most European fetish clubs those guys are told by security to stop bothering women, it still happens but they are well, just like the creepy guys in public transportation who brush past you in a rather inappropriate way. I think that's a good analogy-but I still wouldn't call them do-me's. The problem with the last few 'fetish' (rather than play) events that I've been to was that there were large dance spaces that weren't being monitored by security/DMs. If that behaviour was taking place in the play area you can bet your life something would have been done, but it wasn't; it was in the chill-out areas and on the dancefloors, which weren't being policed.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Question to pro-Dommes and ex-pro-Dommes (11/16/2010 5:06:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious I think that's a good analogy-but I still wouldn't call them do-me's. The problem with the last few 'fetish' (rather than play) events that I've been to was that there were large dance spaces that weren't being monitored by security/DMs. If that behaviour was taking place in the play area you can bet your life something would have been done, but it wasn't; it was in the chill-out areas and on the dancefloors, which weren't being policed. It happened in a club in Munich once in the chill out area, a guy was trying to lick my boots, I told him off, he didn't stop, so I offered to piece his tongue with the stiletto heel if his tongue would venture near my boots again. Before I had a chance to do so, a security showed up and asked if I'm bothered.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Question to pro-Dommes and ex-pro-Dommes (11/16/2010 5:09:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze It happened in a club in Munich once in the chill out area, a guy was trying to lick my boots, I told him off, he didn't stop, so I offered to piece his tongue with the stiletto heel if his tongue would venture near my boots again. Before I had a chance to do so, a security showed up and asked if I'm bothered. Yeah, that's the kind of security I'd appreciate. I'm impressed that you didn't kick him in the face (which I almost did on reflex when a similar thing happened to me).

LadyConstanze -> RE: Question to pro-Dommes and ex-pro-Dommes (11/16/2010 5:20:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious Yeah, that's the kind of security I'd appreciate. I'm impressed that you didn't kick him in the face (which I almost did on reflex when a similar thing happened to me). I was just really puzzled, I didn't realize what happened first, there was just some odd feeling at the back of my boot, he had crept under the chair and licked the boot and heel from behind, it was a bit like a fly or one of my cats brushing past, I was talking with somebody at the time and just but my hand there to check if something is sticking to it or what it is, I was pretty grossed out to touch a face and a tongue, then looked and had a few words. As time goes by, I just get more grumpy and less willing to handle those things myself, that's what security is for and I realize that if I handle it myself, they just move on and start bothering the next woman, so now I'd just ask them to stop and if they don't tell security, they are there to handle it.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Question to pro-Dommes and ex-pro-Dommes (11/16/2010 12:49:14 PM)
Thing is, Peon, you're not a fetishist, per se. There might be things that you especially like, but they're not your whole kink life. The guys who are only into a few things mostly don't want to expand their horizons. There were actually some guys that I turned away because their mental image was so incredibly specific that I knew there was no way my reality could match up. I still think about the one who wanted me to wear a bathrobe, fuzzy slippers. Cur?ers in my hair, and cold cream on my face! The rest of the scensrio was a bit...odd.

PeonForHer -> RE: Question to pro-Dommes and ex-pro-Dommes (11/16/2010 1:04:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus The rest of the scensrio was a bit...odd. Jeez. And the preceding part you didn't consider odd? quote: The guys who are only into a few things mostly don't want to expand their horizons. But you're the Domme. Wouldn't it give them a buzz to be 'forced', just a bit, and only further in the particular kink-direction they've already taken? See, I was once much more of 'one-kink-wonder'. That is, what many here would have called a 'do-me' . . . but my horizons broadened a lot over the years. I don't think, now, they'll ever stop broadening. My original kink's very much still there, but there have been lots of things added to the list since. If this has happened to me, by accident - as it were - I'm wondering if it can happen by design. That is, if a pro (or non-pro) Domme can 'teach' it.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Question to pro-Dommes and ex-pro-Dommes (11/16/2010 1:08:17 PM)
Peon, depending on the fetish and what fetish a person has, for some it is important that it is just so, no ifs no buts, no variation. There are foot fetishists that require a particular shade of nail polish or else the scene will not work for them, and that is one of the more harmless varieties...

PeonForHer -> RE: Question to pro-Dommes and ex-pro-Dommes (11/16/2010 1:14:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze Peon, depending on the fetish and what fetish a person has, for some it is important that it is just so, no ifs no buts, no variation. OK, point taken. It just seems self-defeatingly conservative of them, to me. Every time I pick up a new kink it's a bit like being a teen all over again. It's great fun.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Question to pro-Dommes and ex-pro-Dommes (11/16/2010 1:16:55 PM)
For them it possibly isn't so much of a choice, they have certain fetishes and those fetishes work for them, so they want them fulfilled and because they are so very specific, they usually do go to pro-dommes. For them it's not about fun, it's more of a need...

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