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RE: Campaign to legalise adult consensual slavery relat... - 4/28/2006 9:26:24 AM

KittenWithaTwist

Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hybridspecies2

People from both genders,all sexual orientations,all professions and occupations are involved with BDSM and associated activities.

Would you support any of the following if a pressure group was set up to lobby policicians,clergy,social reformers, lawyers ect for the legalisation of consensual slavery between one or more consenting adults?

Would you support the setting up of a consensual slave register,where the designated slave could pay a one off registration fee to have their name included as a voluntary slave without limit of time,after a criminal records and mental health check??

Would you suppoort athe setting up of a slave owner licensing authority,where the prospective owner could aquire a license to own for say 10 years,for a set fee after a criminal records check and mental health check.

The setting up of a Registered slave welfare inspection agency,where welfare workers could visit the address where a slave is residing during their ownership,to check that they are being reasonably well treated?

No.

To expand:

It's extremely difficult to prove consent. That, in and of itself, makes it difficult to do any of the other things you've mentioned. How do you prove consent? Do you get it on tape? How do you know someone isn't holding a gun to the head of that "consenting" person? Do you get it on film? How do you know the "consenting" person isn't being manipulated? And etc.

I wouldn't go to any random owner (if I were slave) regardless of whether someone were in charge of a legal search of their background. The kind of people that would probably use such information could be excellent liars and manipulators. I'd prefer to find my own partner, regardless of whether or not he/she were registered in a database. Not to mention, that's a bit creepy. Do you want everyone you date to be registered?

Who would authorize the licensing of slave owners? What would be the rules one would have to follow to obtain said license? Would there be limitations, and what would they be? How do you license something that has so little structure?

See above for your last question. How do you regulate something that has so little recognized structure?

_____________________________

"Time travel: It's a cornocopia of disturbing concepts." ~Ron Stoppable

(in reply to hybridspecies2)

Post #: 21

RE: Campaign to legalise adult consensual slavery relat... - 4/28/2006 9:31:30 AM

CB48197

Posts: 3
Joined: 1/6/2004
Status: offline

Just a diversion to show the public that the polititions are "Doing Something".Most are so imoral I would not let them alone with my cat.

Also appeals to the religous nut cake and gets them votes.The whole thing makes me puke!

(in reply to redpetals)

Post #: 22

RE: Campaign to legalise adult consensual slavery relat... - 4/28/2006 9:36:17 AM

babyblues

Posts: 80
Joined: 8/10/2005
Status: offline

aren't we already over-legislated enough? aren't our social workers already stretched too thin as it is?

i don't need some stranger coming by to check up on me

i say no to all of your concepts

(in reply to hybridspecies2)

Post #: 23

RE: Campaign to legalise adult consensual slavery relat... - 4/28/2006 9:42:29 AM

michisub

Posts: 1
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

The idea is sound, but the implementation is skewed. The legal argument would be that slavery was outlawed by the 14th? Amendment, therefore slavery per se could not be recognized.

Civil Unions however, could provide a contractual basis for such a relationship. A contract written for such a union could spell out provisions detailing certain aspects of a relationship. There is a more insidious legal method, but I will not go into that here.

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)

Post #: 24

RE: Campaign to legalise adult consensual slavery relat... - 4/28/2006 9:44:32 AM

SweetEscravo

Posts: 193
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline

I'm sorry but I don't see that ever working, especially in America....Even if we disreguard the constitution at times, I think that is one ammendment that is not budging. While a handfull of people in the bdsm community may like it, I don't think it would work at all. We're an underground society...and do just fine without the government, I might add.

(in reply to redpetals)

Post #: 25

RE: Campaign to legalise adult consensual slavery relat... - 4/28/2006 9:48:27 AM

RumpusParable

Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline

er, no. for reasons many have already gone over.

(in reply to SweetEscravo)

Post #: 26

RE: Campaign to legalise adult consensual slavery relat... - 4/28/2006 9:50:44 AM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

Would you support the setting up of a consensual slave register,where the designated slave could pay a one off registration fee to have their name included as a voluntary slave without limit of time,after a criminal records and mental health check??

Pay how much and to whom? Who's going to regulate it? Who's going to conduct the records check? What is the criteria for the mental health check? Do you have to pass it or fail it? What is the definition of 'slavery'?

quote:

Would you suppoort athe setting up of a slave owner licensing authority,where the prospective owner could aquire a license to own for say 10 years,for a set fee after a criminal records check and mental health check.

Who determines who is allowed to own someone? What is the criteria for ownership? Does one simply pay the fee and they become an owner? Again, what are the mental health criteria? Who conducts the criminal records checks? Who oversees the ownership? Can you lose your license if you are arrested during the 10 year period? How much will it cost?

quote:

The setting up of a Registered slave welfare inspection agency,where welfare workers could visit the address where a slave is residing during their ownership,to check that they are being reasonably well treated?

What is 'reasonably well treated?' How are the inspectors trained? What are their qualifications? If my address is disclosed, how will that affect my family/children? Will they be exposed to these 'welfare' agents? Can I lose my children if I register? How can you ensure that doesn't happen? What is the purpose of the registry? What are the benefits? What are the long term costs? Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to hybridspecies2)

Post #: 27

RE: Campaign to legalise adult consensual slavery relat... - 4/28/2006 9:51:57 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

from an Australian View point.... Hell NO!!!!! But, I would support hen ever Federal Legislation which legaly guarantees that any form of consensual life style between consenting adults is not an illegal situation unless it is breaching other laws like killing people.....

< Message edited by IronBear -- 4/28/2006 9:52:52 AM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to redpetals)

Post #: 28

RE: Campaign to legalise adult consensual slavery relat... - 4/28/2006 9:52:00 AM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

No, no, no and no.

I'd rather that money go into child social services organizations like the foster care system.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 29

RE: Campaign to legalise adult consensual slavery relat... - 4/28/2006 10:18:54 AM

Proprietrix

Posts: 756
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Ohio/West Virginia
Status: offline

nope.
the government already has their nose too far up my ass.

_____________________________

IMO, IMHO, YMMV, AFAIK, to me, I see it as, from my perspective, it's been my experience, I only speak for myself, (and all other disclaimers here).

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 30

RE: Campaign to legalise adult consensual slavery relat... - 4/28/2006 10:22:04 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WeeIttyBitty

Dont they already have road crew and work details in prison?

Whatever happened to the 20 years at hard labour? Shouldnt there be a requirement that prisoners do something, rather than "hang out" all day. I bet the number of problems in prisons would drop, if they where busy crushing rocks or something all day... too tired to scrap...

Real captive slavery isnt going to get an image make over anytime soon.

I don't support non-consensual slavery at all; I'm just talking about what the Constitution's amendment says.

And the difference is apparently being paid -- inmates do work, sometimes they must an sometimes they volunteer, but they get paid something and I have never heard it called slavery by the legal system.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to WeeIttyBitty)

Post #: 31

RE: Campaign to legalise adult consensual slavery relat... - 4/28/2006 10:24:44 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: michisub

The idea is sound, but the implementation is skewed. The legal argument would be that slavery was outlawed by the 14th? Amendment, therefore slavery per se could not be recognized.

Civil Unions however, could provide a contractual basis for such a relationship. A contract written for such a union could spell out provisions detailing certain aspects of a relationship. There is a more insidious legal method, but I will not go into that here.

13th amendment and it didn't outlaw all forms of non-consensual slavery; the legal system just doesn't enslave convicted criminals.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to michisub)

Post #: 32

RE: Campaign to legalise adult consensual slavery relat... - 4/28/2006 10:27:58 AM

slaverosebeauty

Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hybridspecies2

People from both genders,all sexual orientations,all professions and occupations are involved with BDSM and associated activities.

Would you support any of the following if a pressure group was set up to lobby policicians,clergy,social reformers, lawyers ect for the legalisation of consensual slavery between one or more consenting adults?

Would you support the setting up of a consensual slave register,where the designated slave could pay a one off registration fee to have their name included as a voluntary slave without limit of time,after a criminal records and mental health check??

Would you suppoort athe setting up of a slave owner licensing authority,where the prospective owner could aquire a license to own for say 10 years,for a set fee after a criminal records check and mental health check.

The setting up of a Registered slave welfare inspection agency,where welfare workers could visit the address where a slave is residing during their ownership,to check that they are being reasonably well treated?

Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope.
The government has already made it illegal to buy and sale stuff [adult toys, vibes, porn, etc] in parts of the country that some of us enjoy, why let them in any further into our bedrooms, dungeons and private lives than they already are.

Besides, who would regulate things and make the 'rules' vanilla's would not know where to begin, they would turn this into a huge burocracy and a mess; this would stop being something we go for fun and consensual, to a business that was regulated by the feds, the same people that cannot even help our own children in the system and the like.

No thank you. I will keep Uncle Sam out of this [and my private life] as much as possible.

_____________________________

http://slaverosebeauty.livejournal.com/

"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to hybridspecies2)

Post #: 33

RE: Campaign to legalise adult consensual slavery relat... - 4/28/2006 10:34:46 AM

valeca

Posts: 403
Joined: 1/9/2006
Status: offline

No!

You're suggesting a group with wildy varying kinks/households/rules of individual conduct be regulated? What happens to those who don't fall within someone else's specified guidelines of 'reasonably well treated', and yet are still happy and content with their situation? You're right back to where you started--an underground group of people outside the 'norm'.

The government is not welcome in my submission. I barely tolerate their presence in my life, as is.

Paying a fee doesn't make it 'more real'. Being regualted by government agencies doesn't make it 'more real'. Having someone nosing around your life doesn't make it 'more real'. Barring all those things, all that's left is www.slaveregister.com

_____________________________

~valeca, Owned and Operated by Loraith.

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 34

RE: Campaign to legalise adult consensual slavery relat... - 4/28/2006 10:45:15 AM

SweetSarijane

Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
Status: offline

OH HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No way it would work in my opinion, plus what I do or don't do is my business and the business of who I do it with. I sure as hell don't want or need the gov't sticking it's nose in my business in that aspect of my life. Bad enough dealing with them in other areas.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers KCSass

(in reply to valeca)

Post #: 35

RE: Campaign to legalise adult consensual slavery relat... - 4/28/2006 10:49:22 AM

HayaSierra

Posts: 119
Joined: 4/7/2005
From: In Georgia
Status: offline

In short, no, I do not think such legislation would be beneficial, and I do not think I would support it in the form as you suggest.

Actually, as many others have stated, it would be far better to try to get all consensual relationships between people legalized -- rather than trying what was suggested by the OP.

Another route might be to make regular people slowly but surely aware that some people just "live to serve" and that there is nothing wrong with deciding what we wish to do with our own lives -- as long as it does not do any permanent harm to someone (such as kill someone) and does not cause someone to be forced into a relationship like ours. Once people understand those base concepts, acceptance will come more readily.

I've got my own thoughts about this -- even enough of them to potentially proove the validity of these types of relationships to just about anyone, (and I have proved it to a varity of regular and everyday people, even some of those many would consider vanilla and rather closed-minded) but it's not something you can just bring to lawmakers or randomly toss out at people without much forethought.

First to gain acceptance for anything you MUST have support of the people -- and have the support that is extremely and very clear that the Government is to remain out of our dungeons and thus our private lives. Once people understand that our types of relationship is merely a form of personal choice -- such as smoking, drinking, clubbing, what religion to follow, what movies to watch, where to go vacation, where to live, to drive a car or an SUV, or to have children vs. adoption. Once people understand that serving is a valid choice in life, and understand that an Owner or Dominant providing guidance and control over a submissive is also a valid choice, then progress can actually be made. And -- we won't need the government for that, because after all, look how long the prohibition lasted and how impossible it would be to outlaw chocolate and have anyone stick with it.

Outlawing chocolate -- think of how impossible it would be to pass regulations on that one, due to the popularity of the sweet stuff.... :P.

Haya Sierra ---

_____________________________

Haya Sierra
Haya Of Ka Azdor Estate --
http://groups.msn.com/Domsub/
Basic Information about the Hanian System of D/s

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)

Post #: 36

RE: Campaign to legalise adult consensual slavery relat... - 4/28/2006 10:52:10 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

So here I am in the middle of a scene and the inspector walks in starts perusing my object of terrorisms pissflaps with a checklist..............um hmmmmmm, so when you damage this tissue, what government approved salve do you put on it? May I see your medicine cabinet? Rut Roh! Bag Balm? BAG BALM??? this will never do.......... saunters back to my slave.... does he beat you hard enough per goverment regulation 678.37 subpart 3, paragraphs b thru e. My slave says, "No, he never beats me as sensless as I want him to, he always stops when I stop breathing, I wanna turn him in for abuse.........I believe every woman should be beat as much as they want.

Then I would go to jail and have to listen to a bunch of shit from my Ma........

I will pass,
Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to SweetSarijane)

Post #: 37

RE: Campaign to legalise adult consensual slavery relat... - 4/28/2006 11:35:38 AM

mkmePainscanvas

Posts: 5
Joined: 8/23/2005
Status: offline

Do You work for Bush?

The whole thing sounds like another place to get a 'homeland security unbrella in', just for our own good ofcourse.

No. No way. No how. 9-11 and Katrina showed us all first hand the skill, finesse, and ability that the government has in handling things.

Besides, the underground, rebellious, I refuse to fit into your vanllia mold, aspect of the bdsm world is part of its charm. If it got homogenized out in a system, it just would not be the same. Other issues addressed here with regard to peoples parental rights and career obligations would also suffer at the hands of a predominantly vanilla sociaty. The disasters that could occur in just these two areas alone are hororfying all by themselves.

If I remember correctly, when another lifestlye community wanted to make their presence felt on the government, they had an interesting way of doing it. They made it felt through the money. Now, you can not deface money, its against the law. But I don't think that the author of the last " Go with God " dollar bill you got in change is siting in jail. And it tells the government how much of a groups's dollar moves the economy. The bottom line is all that is ever considered anyway. When the hand cuffs, nippleclamps, and whips industries can lobby and rival the arms and fuel we will have a voice. Until then, a move like this seems that it would make completely vulnerable property out of master and slave alike; to the government. Not to each other.

Just mho.

(in reply to valeca)

Post #: 38

RE: Campaign to legalise adult consensual slavery relat... - 4/28/2006 12:02:21 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

Ok... this is getting me rather nervous here... seems everyone is saying NO.... And I mean everyone. This just can't be a good thing either... conformity is sure to bring stagnation and death to the lifestyle.

So.. In the interest of breathing new life to the lifestyle... I am changing my Vote to a YES...

Let the flames begin for my flip flopping on such a lifestyle critical issue

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to hybridspecies2)

Post #: 39

RE: Campaign to legalise adult consensual slavery relat... - 4/28/2006 12:13:36 PM

amayos

Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hybridspecies2
Would you support any of the following if a pressure group was set up to lobby policicians,clergy,social reformers, lawyers ect for the legalisation of consensual slavery between one or more consenting adults?

Would you support the setting up of a consensual slave register,where the designated slave could pay a one off registration fee to have their name included as a voluntary slave without limit of time,after a criminal records and mental health check?

I say slaves belong in the dark under our wings.

(in reply to hybridspecies2)

Post #: 40

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