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The Ghailani Verdict - 11/20/2010 4:19:53 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		So, of 285 counts related to terrorism, he gets convicted of 1, and even though the jury decided he was guilty of conspiracy to blow shit up, they didn't hold him to account for any of the slaughtered people. The possible sentence is 20 to life.

I don't think these cases, especially the ones where the accused have been bounced through CIA and military control on their way to trial, belong in civilian courts.

I'd certainly like to know more about what went on in that jury room, to get the outcome we did.

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RE: The Ghailani Verdict - 11/20/2010 6:35:01 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Blame your interrogators. I read that the counts of murder couldnt be continued with as coercive methods were used to gain evidence. The jury didnt fail, the system did.

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RE: The Ghailani Verdict - 11/20/2010 6:48:04 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline 		Isn't terrorism a crime against civilians?

Why does it not belong in a civilian court?


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RE: The Ghailani Verdict - 11/20/2010 7:31:42 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Blame your interrogators. I read that the counts of murder couldnt be continued with as coercive methods were used to gain evidence. The jury didnt fail, the system did.

And further, military courts would have faced the same problem and likely decided the same way.

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RE: The Ghailani Verdict - 11/20/2010 11:02:32 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		But, you let (one) terrorist get through the system and they could be a part of the "next" 9/11.
How many have they let go only to find them fighting with al qeada a few months or a year later?
What do they do with them, another "trial?" They should be executed on the spot as spies.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 11/20/2010 11:04:24 PM >

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RE: The Ghailani Verdict - 11/20/2010 11:43:19 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Isn't terrorism a crime against civilians?

Why does it not belong in a civilian court?





Try re-reading what I said in the first post, RML. You'll find one of your questions is answered right there. If you can accomplish that task, I might consider discussing your other one.

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RE: The Ghailani Verdict - 11/20/2010 11:57:35 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

But, you let (one) terrorist get through the system and they could be a part of the "next" 9/11.
How many have they let go only to find them fighting with al qeada a few months or a year later?
What do they do with them, another "trial?" They should be executed on the spot as spies.

Because a number of these folks were picked up for being in neighborhood.

Look, if you can't establish their guilt in a trial, how do you know they're terrorists? How hard could that be?

If that bothers you, there's always Iran. Your kind of government.

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RE: The Ghailani Verdict - 11/21/2010 3:44:03 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

But, you let (one) terrorist get through the system and they could be a part of the "next" 9/11.
How many have they let go only to find them fighting with al qeada a few months or a year later?
What do they do with them, another "trial?" They should be executed on the spot as spies.


How can you shoot someone as a spy who is captured in his own country. Dont even start me on those picked up as terrorists that were nothing of the sort.

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RE: The Ghailani Verdict - 11/21/2010 3:48:30 AM   
Seatonstomb


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Status: offline 		Shouldn't those who tortured him, be in court to face charges. 

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RE: The Ghailani Verdict - 11/21/2010 5:43:59 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

But, you let (one) terrorist get through the system and they could be a part of the "next" 9/11.
How many have they let go only to find them fighting with al qeada a few months or a year later?
What do they do with them, another "trial?" They should be executed on the spot as spies.

First he didn't [get] through the system, he was convicted of one charge and may have only been guilty of that one charge. Almost none go and 'fight' for Al-Quaida as most of their recruits do not come from their ranks but are convinced of some emotional and religious grievance and are supposed to die simply blowing up more people.

Al-Quaida is a name created by the CIA to give us an enemy the bulk of which who were involved in undermining or bringing down moderate Arab govts. Only Bin Laden and 2 recruits from the Taliban were set on hitting America at the outset. The rest were recruited after 9/11 with a handy new name.

Now of course you feel that because for whatever reason our govt. picked him up whether the color of his skin, being in the wrong place at the wrong time...he is guilty until proven innocent then the terrorists have a measure of success in how we now use the law as that would be very similar to Islam. Further you must believe also that those inalienable rights, both self-evident and granted by our creator are not so self-evident or inalienable anymore and are granted instead by govt. only to be arbitrarily taken from whoever that govt. chooses.

The US govt. will NOT allow a civilian open court trial of any of the 9/11 conspirators. I am willing to wager that these suspects know a whole lot that our govt. doesn't want us to know.

Khalid Mohammed has been awaiting trial for what...8 years ? Why ? THE alledged mastermind of 9/11 will now be held without trial indefinitely. Why ?

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RE: The Ghailani Verdict - 11/21/2010 8:54:01 AM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Seatonstomb

Shouldn't those who tortured him, be in court to face charges. 



Not is his courtroom.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
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RE: The Ghailani Verdict - 11/21/2010 9:45:27 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

So, of 285 counts related to terrorism, he gets convicted of 1, and even though the jury decided he was guilty of conspiracy to blow shit up, they didn't hold him to account for any of the slaughtered people. The possible sentence is 20 to life.

I don't think these cases, especially the ones where the accused have been bounced through CIA and military control on their way to trial, belong in civilian courts.

I'd certainly like to know more about what went on in that jury room, to get the outcome we did.


The judge threw out the prosecutors star witness, even though the guy was willing to testify. 

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RE: The Ghailani Verdict - 11/21/2010 10:28:21 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		Another nail in the incompetence coffin of Eric Holder, who will probably soon be free to seek other employment.
And the end of civilian trials for terrorists.


_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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RE: The Ghailani Verdict - 11/21/2010 10:30:44 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		But again,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Blame your interrogators. I read that the counts of murder couldnt be continued with as coercive methods were used to gain evidence. The jury didnt fail, the system did.

And further, military courts would have faced the same problem and likely decided the same way.


(in reply to truckinslave)
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RE: The Ghailani Verdict - 11/21/2010 10:31:19 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Isn't terrorism a crime against civilians?




Muslim terrorism consists of war crimes and should be treated as such.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to rulemylife)
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RE: The Ghailani Verdict - 11/21/2010 10:35:03 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		That's a problem when you're the invading army.

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RE: The Ghailani Verdict - 11/21/2010 10:44:05 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

That's a problem when you're the invading army.



Ghailani blew up US embassies in Africa, Muse. Do you consider a diplomatic presence equivalent to a military invasion, or are you just snarking in the dark?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: The Ghailani Verdict - 11/21/2010 10:49:40 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		That's not what I said, and you know it.

Wasn't it YOU who complained about the "So what you're saying is......" spinners way back in Sanity's lamenting thread?

This is a court proceeding. Military courts don't change that.

Gathering evidence inadmissibly is the problem.

No administration can make that go away.

At issue here is the other cases, not this single case.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 11/21/2010 10:58:38 AM >

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RE: The Ghailani Verdict - 11/21/2010 3:29:03 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Another nail in the incompetence coffin of Eric Holder, who will probably soon be free to seek other employment.
And the end of civilian trials for terrorists.



How short is your memory ? Ghalianis co accused were all tried AND convicted in a civilian court as where the original wtc bombers. The only reason this trial failed was because of how the CIA gathered the evidence.

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RE: The Ghailani Verdict - 11/21/2010 8:42:03 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Ghalianis co accused were all tried AND convicted in a civilian court as where the original wtc bombers. The only reason this trial failed was because of how the CIA gathered the evidence.


The other problem is classified information.
Both problems are lessened in military tribunals.
Far cheaper, too.
Give them a fair trial in a military tribunal, kill them, forget about it.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 20
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