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Losing my faith... - 11/22/2010 11:19:36 AM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline 		I am losing it....I have no idea if it is temporary or forever, but I am finding it impossible to believe there is some super dude in the sky who controls things.  Karma aint looking too good either, I am just pissed at the gawds.

I guess, if there is one, he can take me being pissed at him, and if there isn't, nothing lost.

The death of a kindergarten student at the school I work at has catapulted this on to me like a boulder.  I have always been able to keep the faith in some way or another.  It was sucked out of me when I walked in to the office and had someone tell me, through her tears, that one of our babies was gone.  Still don't know why he died.......

He had the prettiest (yes they were pretty, but in a macho way) eyes I have ever seen.  His smile made me grin every morning, without fail.  I can think of no damn reason in the world or heavens that this childs life is now gone. 

And it pisses me the hell off!

I know anyone can post anywhere, so I won't even try to dictate, but I will ask that, if possible, this become a discussion on losing faith, whether you refound it or changed your mind completely about what is and what isn't. 

I have no idea how I will come out the other side of this, but I have just helped too many people bury their babies in the past few years, and I am curious how others have come through similar things.

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RE: Losing my faith... - 11/22/2010 12:11:11 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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Thats all I got.  I  don't know what to say other than a pendulum swings.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Losing my faith... - 11/22/2010 12:35:43 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline 		I should have remembered that song.  Amazingly it is this one that has left me sitting here with tears running down my face though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijZRCIrTgQc&NR=1&feature=fvwp

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RE: Losing my faith... - 11/22/2010 12:38:12 PM   
mnottertail


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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Losing my faith... - 11/22/2010 12:42:35 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		I 'lost' or more accurately ceased to believe in the faith I was raised in when I was about 10. I still regard that decision as one of the best I have ever taken. I can't say I have ever felt any need to re-visit that decision. Nor can I say I have ever felt any sense of loss.

A life without the certainty of faith may seem initially daunting to someone who is used to faith. I have found that that uncertainty is good motivation to hold onto my moral compass even tighter. Working out what is morally right and wrong for yourself rather than adhering to a given code, the process of striving to be right when you know that you can be wrong generates its own confidence.

One way of adjusting to life without faith is to rely more on love and compassion to guide you. There are many many more. While you may be losing one thing, you could well be on the cusp of gaining many other potentially more valuable qualities. My experience is that there are many more reasons to be optimistic than pessimistic.

I admire your honesty and wish you the best in your journey, wherever it takes you.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 11/22/2010 12:47:24 PM >

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RE: Losing my faith... - 11/22/2010 12:53:04 PM   
subtlebutterfly


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From: Not your hood
Status: offline 		http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T25QPeV-T2M
It's a beautiful song, the lyric is even more so - if you understand it, even though I'm not a religious person per se.
However, I do believe that at the times of sorrow you may either find strength in your religion or doubt it for some time, but I don't think it'll 'cause you to lose faith completely.
In my opinion if you stop believing there usually are more reasons than a loss or losses that are behind it.

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RE: Losing my faith... - 11/22/2010 1:01:50 PM   
pogo4pres


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Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline 		FR

OP, my faith was pretty much ruined 49 years ago, and I have asked myself that question every year since 21 Dec 1961, when 60 days short of my 4th birthday my older sister passed away from pleurisy.  She had just turned nine in November that year.  Add in my grandmother passing away on 8 December 1972,  and my dad on 15 December 1997, and I think you can guess that "the holidays" are not a real joyous time for me. 

This year is difficult for me as Thanksgiving day would have been dad's 85th birthday, so I sort of wish I could just hibernate from Friday morning through 31 December.  Unfortunately I can't just shut down as I'd like.  Two teenagers kind of prevent that.

To those of you that celebrate the "birth" of little baby Hey Zeus, I hope your holiday time will be better for you than it will for me.



Cynically,
Some Knucklehead in NJ


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RE: Losing my faith... - 11/22/2010 1:28:21 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I didn't lose anything, I just evolved into different beliefs. I quit being afraid of not following the rules. I've developed my own. It's all good.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Losing my faith... - 11/22/2010 1:41:39 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

I am losing it....I have no idea if it is temporary or forever, but I am finding it impossible to believe there is some super dude in the sky who controls things.  Karma aint looking too good either, I am just pissed at the gawds.

I guess, if there is one, he can take me being pissed at him, and if there isn't, nothing lost.

The death of a kindergarten student at the school I work at has catapulted this on to me like a boulder.  I have always been able to keep the faith in some way or another.  It was sucked out of me when I walked in to the office and had someone tell me, through her tears, that one of our babies was gone.  Still don't know why he died.......

He had the prettiest (yes they were pretty, but in a macho way) eyes I have ever seen.  His smile made me grin every morning, without fail.  I can think of no damn reason in the world or heavens that this childs life is now gone. 

And it pisses me the hell off!

I know anyone can post anywhere, so I won't even try to dictate, but I will ask that, if possible, this become a discussion on losing faith, whether you refound it or changed your mind completely about what is and what isn't. 

I have no idea how I will come out the other side of this, but I have just helped too many people bury their babies in the past few years, and I am curious how others have come through similar things.


If there is a G/god, I expect s/he can handle your anger.

I am sorry for the loss.
Of course it doesn't make sense.

I don't really go along with the "there is a reason for everything" crowd.
Somethings are terrible and don't make sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrueVp_kuZ8

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VSyuar6oF8&feature=related

When I experienced a personally horrific event back in '96 I coined the phrase "faith for the faithless".

I am not sure what I believe to this day.



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RE: Losing my faith... - 11/22/2010 2:01:14 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I didn't lose anything, I just evolved into different beliefs. I quit being afraid of not following the rules. I've developed my own. It's all good.

What she said.

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RE: Losing my faith... - 11/22/2010 2:54:52 PM   
Jaybeee


Posts: 532
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline 		JAS, if it helps am absolutely convinced all babies and little chaps/chappesses go straight to Heaven. I railed at Him when my mother left us a few years ago, but despite how we cling to this world and the sheer joy of it all, it's nothing compared to what awaits us, and really, it's we who should be pitited, not those looking down.

There are still days when I wish He hadn't taken her from me; I'm human, I'm GOING to have more of those days. My faith wasn't shaken - I was. But the former is because I believe He always has something better in store for those He takes and those He leaves, and the latter because - I'll repeat - I'm human.

And so are you; so He understands if you scream, cry and curse Him. He loves you all the same.

Drop me a line or use the chat thing here if you wanna talk, bro. Serious.


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RE: Losing my faith... - 11/22/2010 3:04:38 PM   
Edwynn


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Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
When something like this happens close to us it makes us question there being anything right about the world, belief or no belief.

We understand death, as such, but the seemingly indiscriminate nature of it often torments emotional beings called humans.

In these circumstances saying "I want to  understand" is actually saying "I want to quit hurting."


I don't have her book at hand so I'll have to paraphrase, but Flannery O'Connor made a comment once after a five year old girl that everyone thought very highly of as she seemed to be a virtual angel (in much the same way as you describe this boy) was lost to some disease, and everybody wondered why God would take such as this at so early an age. Ms. O'Connor offered that  "if she was such an angel then why did she have to stay here that long?" Aside from O'Connor's sometimes dark take on why we are here, I think it was more intended to be an observation expressed in her usual roundabout way that we should appreciate them being here for whatever brief period of time as we may be allowed.



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RE: Losing my faith... - 11/22/2010 3:55:09 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline 		Thanks to all of you.  I have really fallen into music today, scrubbed doorjams and doors and baseboards, and just thought a lot.

Ron, your song choices amaze me.  In all the funk I have been in today, I did get a giggle thinking of "repaying" you for such good choices as OOOh Child played in the background..

tweakabelle, you have given me a lot to think on.  It sounds like you are content, and that is all I have ever wished for in life.

butterfly, time will tell if I am stumbling or falling completely down.  I am glad to at least have the maturity (haha or the gray hairs at least), to know I do not need to hurry into any decisions.

pogo, I get what you feel.  Mom crashed the day after Thanksgivingin 2000.  I held her hand when she took her last breath on Dec. 29th that year.  Funny thing is, the weeks of having her in home hospice and being her caregiver made me insane, sleepless, and ill as hell.  Holding her hand when she smiled, called my daddys name and took her last breath is the only time in my life I have been positive there WAS something for us when we leave this world.  I too go into a shell of sorts during the holidays, and just wait for them to be over with.  Hang in there!

Lat and MM, I suspect yall have nailed it on the ehad for me.

angelica, it does me good to see someone admit that they do not know what they believe.  Thank you.

Jaybeee, I am sure you are right about babies and youngunsgoing to heaven, if there is one.  (Oh yeah, my boobs are too long for me to be a bro)

;o)

Edwynn, I may check out some of OConnors writings, thanks for sharing them.

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RE: Losing my faith... - 11/22/2010 4:54:56 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		I did suffer a crisis of faith, many years ago. It took me a long time to reconcile my doubts and feel comfortable in being a spiritual person without all the religious dogma.

Still, even now my old teachings from a religion I no longer follow, warn me to be careful what I say, unless I become a stumbling block for another person.


Instead I'll just post a link to a song I find very beautiful, and I hope inspires some comfort in this time of grief. I'm truly sorrowful over your loss and will keep you in my thoughts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33Zd8fEsQAk


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RE: Losing my faith... - 11/22/2010 5:45:48 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		Shit happens. The pagan gods themselves were subject to and victims of fate - even more so than mere mortals. Their lives and suffering and acts serve as spiritual guidance:

"Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil" (Psalm 23:1-6)

Job kept faith.

'God moves in a mysterious way His wonders to perform'. (The first two lines of the Hymn by William Cowper.)

[Jesus said,] "The wind blows where it chooses, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit". John (3:8)

Everywhere creatures die and decay - and are born and live and bloom. Everything in our universe is recycled. The cycle of death and life is endless, perpetual. Merely contemplate my avatar, the forest, which symbolizes this. (And if one is percipient when contemplating my avatar, there is more.)

I am sorry for your grief.


< Message edited by Rule -- 11/22/2010 5:47:25 PM >

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RE: Losing my faith... - 11/22/2010 5:56:11 PM   
MoxieRed


Posts: 11
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline 		http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNGrwRJQs4A&feature=related
"Words alone are vain and vacant and my heart is mute"

This song was written for a young girl in the composer's choir who died of disease (cancer comes to mind, but don't quote me)
Not my choir, sadly, but one of the nicer recordings I've heard.

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RE: Losing my faith... - 11/22/2010 6:40:28 PM   
Jaybeee


Posts: 532
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub


Jaybeee, I am sure you are right about babies and youngunsgoing to heaven, if there is one.  (Oh yeah, my boobs are too long for me to be a bro)

;o)




Cool, then whatever term conveys a man's solidarity with and to a non-male peer, I'm happy to go with. Not sure "Sis"/"Honey" cut it, but whatever it is, you definitely have my support in this.

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RE: Losing my faith... - 11/22/2010 7:09:30 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I am so sorry about the pain you are feeling right now.

The only thing I can offer you on faith right now is a bit of a rant of my own...

Why is it that man (in the general sense) lays the blame for all at God's feet?  Yes, He gave us life and this world... but understand the word, "gave".  We have free will.  This world and what happens to it is on our shoulders.

I look at it from a parents' perspective.  I gave life to my children.  I arranged their lives for them for as long as I could.  I gave them rules and beliefs... and a future to look forward to.  I love them dearly and every heartbreak they experience cuts me through like a knife.

But they are adults now.  They are on their own.  They have the freedom to make their own joy or experience their own sorrow.

While I might advise them on what I believe they should do, it is their responsibility to make their own decisions.  Will they make mistakes?  Yes.  Will I help them when they do?  If I can and it makes sense for me to do so.  But I would do them no favors if my help would become a "get out of jail free card" so that they can continue to make poor decisions.

Man seems to say to God, "Stay out of my way... let me do what I want..." but then complains He is not there to make our lives perfect for us.

If something horrible should happen that I would lose one of my children, it would devastate me.  It wouldn't seem fair.  It wouldn't be deserved.  I would grieve.

And I firmly believe that God would be right there grieving with me.

I would never think it was God's fault.  Because of Him, we do have life and we do have free will. 

In the absence of sorrow, I would never learn to embrace the joy.

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RE: Losing my faith... - 11/22/2010 11:25:10 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		I never had much in the way of faith to lose, I am profoundly undecided, but like Ron said way early on its a pendulum, I waver back and forth between believing in some sort of divine being and not...so losing my faith is sort of a constant state of affair with me. Sorry you are in the state you are in, but this to will pass

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RE: Losing my faith... - 11/22/2010 11:55:40 PM   
trulylovingkink


Posts: 1
Joined: 9/27/2009
From: Emmett, Idaho
Status: offline 		I am new to this way of chatting and have no idea how to get back to it, but i am now what some might call an "old lady" (age 70) and have lost ang regained my faith many many times. Sex and religion are my two most favorite topics. I once used to teach diploma student nurses anatomy, physiology, microbiology and chemistry. I used to boast about being able to see god in the garbage can when "god" was defined to me as a deification of the electromagnetic spheres of the universe. When I was a pagan I identified myself as an epithelial cell on the body of god. All I can say is howcome if a bunch of Christian fundamentlists pray for a sick person to get better, the sick person gets better. According to a book caled "The Joy of Sex" Catholics are the sexiest? Howcome? Is expecting the sun to come up each morning faith or nowledge? And just exactly who was is who designed my epthelial cells to be pale and my luxurious copper red hair to go bald and white? That sure was not MY idea of fun. And what is it about intense focused attention that makes me feel like Jesus transfiguration on the Mount and feels better than an orgasm and feels so good that I burst into tears of joy and that causes it to promptly to stop? Fear not. You are quite normal and it is mot a sin nor a crime to want to know what the hell is going on out here.

_____________________________

May you twinkle like the stars in the sky at night from the joyous overfowing ecstasy of the love inherent within the hearts of all mankind bubbling into the lives of all around you. May blessings surround you and give you peace.

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