A Domme's Vulnerability (Full Version)

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SpyUnderCover -> A Domme's Vulnerability (11/23/2010 10:09:04 AM)

One of the insightful quotes in Jay Wiseman's book SM 101 is, "We talk a lot about the vulnerability of the submissive to the dominant. What we don't talk about as much is the vulnerability of the dominant to the submissive."

I've been thinking about this for a while, both in terms of a D/s setting and otherwise. We all have our moments of doubt, fear, and insecurity. How much vulnerability do you let your submissive(s) see in you, in either D/s or "vanilla" situations?

Do you let them see you cry? Do you let it show when you're feeling insecure or fearful? (And what if the fear is some irrational feeling, for example, a fear of snakes?) How do you think this affects the power dynamics in your D/s relationship? As a Domme, do you deal with these types of situations differently than you do in your other relationships? Do you let your submissive(s) see your weakest moments?



LadyPact -> RE: A Domme's Vulnerability (11/23/2010 10:44:04 AM)

Along with the answers that you get here, you may also be interested in this thread.  http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=938390&key=susanofo

To answer your question directly, yes, clip has seen Me cry.  There have been times that he's known that I was afraid.  The truth is, he's in a dynamic with a human being.  Not a robot.   I think he'd have more reason to be concerned if I refused to be My entire self, including the whole package of emotions.  It would be rather superficial if he couldn't accept the fact an emotional response isn't necessarily a weakness.  Wouldn't it really suck if a loved one of Mine passed away and he didn't expect Me to grieve?

Actually, I do happen to have a fear of snakes.  In over three years, this had an effect on the dynamic one time in over three years.  Well, for about five seconds, anyway, or however long it took Me to say "kill it".  (Any members of PETA can write Me on the other side to lodge their complaints about that.)

One thing that it was very important for Me to impress on clip from the very beginning is that, I am his Dominant, but I am subjected to the same life on life's terms things as everybody else.  I make mistakes.  I have flaws.  I absolutely have emotions.



Focus50 -> RE: A Domme's Vulnerability (11/23/2010 11:18:54 AM)

Not sure where the line is on what constitutes my dominant traits vs my individual personality traits but the fem/subs I allow to get close are also kryptonite to my general super uberance. And that equates to vulnerability, though not in the physical sense as it often is for a submissive.

I'm a private person with the protective emotional walls that comes with. I don't cry for the world or get too caught up in the emotional distress of others etc. But certain fem/subs have a way of getting in almost without me realising; that I find I can be my normal *me* around them, "warts n all".

That's sobering for a control freak, and even a tad scarey if the relationship goes south. And it's also refreshingly exhilerating and probably the closest I'll get to the physical vulnerability my sub feels when she's naked and bound....

Focus.



slavekal -> RE: A Domme's Vulnerability (11/23/2010 12:54:36 PM)

If you are serving a lady in real life, you will see her weaknesses.  If you can't handle real human emotions, then you are living in fantasy land.  I do need a Mistress to be strong and reasonably self reliant.  I can't serve a whiny, weak, cry baby, but I do not expect a Mistress to be made of stone either.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: A Domme's Vulnerability (11/23/2010 2:42:37 PM)

I really avoid showing what I condsider vulnerability, but I am like that with everyone, not just submissives. IF I get that close, then they get the whole Hib. Most don't, just because I am not inclined to share myself that way.




YSG -> RE: A Domme's Vulnerability (11/23/2010 5:44:44 PM)

Not a domme, but I feel I should answer this

If my lady shows me her vulnerability, it would only make me love her more. I take that as one, she is a woman, and one with needs, fears, doubts, insecurites, etc, and two, she trusts me enough to be vulnerable in front of me. At that point, I just want to hold her, kiss on her, and take care of her.

Now, being a psychology minor, I can tell you that phobias, such as fear of snakes, are often deep rooted feelings from experiences had, usually in the formative years. So, maybe someone who is afraid of snakes had a bad experience, IE being bitten by one as a child.

Honestly, in my mind, I dont really feel that it affects the dynamic overall. I think it is best to actually set that aside for that moment and be two human beings.

Even though she is dominant, she is still a woman. Even though I am submissive, I am still a man. I can be, and want to be, her man. She just has to let me.



SpyUnderCover -> RE: A Domme's Vulnerability (11/23/2010 6:59:43 PM)

Thank you, LadyPact, for the link.

Thanks everyone for their replies and perspectives so far. I look forward to more.

Spy



LadyHibiscus -> RE: A Domme's Vulnerability (11/23/2010 7:32:02 PM)

I am reassured, Geoff! Because if you want to see me freeze and scream, just wait for wasps or deadly deadly bees come around!

I will happily deal with snakes and spiders, if properly equipped. :)



YSG -> RE: A Domme's Vulnerability (11/23/2010 7:45:42 PM)

lol LH, idk if I consider that a phobia. By definition, a phobia is an irrational fear of something, for example, agoraphobia, wich is the fear of wide open spaces. So, being afraid of a swarm of bees/wasps/hornets isnt really irrational, now is it?

BTW, if you ever have that problem, let me know. I have NO issue about strapping on the proper equipment and introducing those little shits to chemical warfare [:D]



LadyHibiscus -> RE: A Domme's Vulnerability (11/23/2010 7:48:36 PM)

I am not phobic, just skeeeeerd! Because of being allergic to the stings. Run away!!



YSG -> RE: A Domme's Vulnerability (11/23/2010 7:54:10 PM)

awww LH, dont worry, Ill protect you. Just go in the house, Ill open this big ol can of whup-ass (aka RAID) [:D]



Lockit -> RE: A Domme's Vulnerability (11/23/2010 8:39:40 PM)

First things first... there is nothing wrong with being afraid of snakes! If you can die from it, you have the right to freak if you wanna! [:)]

Once I was driving in a Michigan winter and we were on a sheet of ice. I had to make a turn and I knew it was going to be tricky, but had been driving in MI for years, so I was cool... until the damn car decided to go every direction at once, at least three rounds and into a ditch... of course I was trying to hand the steering wheel to my husband in the passenger seat... take it, take it... lol He looked at me like I was nuts, while three kids in the back screamed. It didn't take one ounce of domina from me. hehe Of course I put him in charge of getting us out! lol

I will show every emotion known to woman-kind, whenever I feel it. I hide nothing and hold nothing back. I'm no weeping willowy type and am strong and most know it, so when I am weak, I am the first to admit it. If I cannot be who I am and show it all, I figure he doesn't know all of me and that is the goal, to know all of one another and still have the basis of d/s well in place. Anyone that disrespects someone because they are human has the problem, not me.

Just like I don't dress the domina part some expect, I also don't give false emotions playing some part of toughie domina that makes no real sense in emotional balance.

Once I had a serious and touchy subject to deal with. I did my strength, domina deal with it and when done, laid on the bed and sobbed. They get it all.



MasterFireMaam -> RE: A Domme's Vulnerability (11/23/2010 8:56:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpyUnderCover

Do you let them see you cry?

Yes. To hide it would mean hiding a part of Us and We don't feel that is healthy in any relationship.

quote:

Do you let it show when you're feeling insecure or fearful? (And what if the fear is some irrational feeling, for example, a fear of snakes?)

Yes, and We state that We are feeling such and that We understand Our fears/feelings are irrational. Stating this is giving the slave information it needs to "Protect the Property" if there is any doubt about orders coming from a place of good stewardship.

quote:

How do you think this affects the power dynamics in your D/s relationship?

It strengthens it because We are willing to be honest and open to Our slaves. They are respected enough for this.

quote:

As a Domme, do you deal with these types of situations differently than you do in your other relationships?

No. We are honest about Our feelings and emotions in Our relationships. It is, in Our opinion, the only way to have a healthy relationship.

quote:

Do you let your submissive(s) see your weakest moments?

Yes. Again... emotional honesty in relationships.

Master Fire



CynthiaWVirginia -> RE: A Domme's Vulnerability (11/24/2010 5:16:12 AM)


quote:

One of the insightful quotes in Jay Wiseman's book SM 101 is, "We talk a lot about the vulnerability of the submissive to the dominant. What we don't talk about as much is the vulnerability of the dominant to the submissive."

I've been thinking about this for a while, both in terms of a D/s setting and otherwise. We all have our moments of doubt, fear, and insecurity. How much vulnerability do you let your submissive(s) see in you, in either D/s or "vanilla" situations?

I have tried to go for transparency because I prefer this.  I have less experience than many because I haven't had subs for longer than a year and a half, and never someone who lived with me.  There are a lot of things I haven't had to deal with yet.  I have nonsexual, vanilla D/s relationships and they see all of me, the good bad and ugly.  I am accepted for who I am.

quote:

Do you let them see you cry?
 
I rarely cry, but I get upset and I also have panic attacks.  Anyone in my life knows about this and I do not mask this from submissives.  
 
quote:

Do you let it show when you're feeling insecure or fearful? (And what if the fear is some irrational feeling, for example, a fear of snakes?)

Yes, I do.  He would also know what I expected of him.  I come with certain limitations, some things in the news and on tv or radio or movies are on my hard limits list and would get rid of what would trigger my panic attacks, or PTSD.  I cannot ride rollercoasters either.  If I didn't explain all of this, how could I get the service I want from him?  How would he know when to react if I went white as a sheet and started shaking?  It is much better to know to turn off the tv or change channels, or help me exit a room fast if a conversation nearby deeply offended me.
 
quote:

How do you think this affects the power dynamics in your D/s relationship?
In the past, I had one sub who worried about how I tried to help and protect others, he was precious to me and I listened to him, evaluated everything and decided to set more limits on myself.  This was/is a vulnerability I have, and he didn't think less of me for it but was worried that I would pass my limits and burn myself out.  If I had kept my activities from him, then I would missed out on his caretaking and valuable input.
 
quote:

As a Domme, do you deal with these types of situations differently than you do in your other relationships?
I have to compare the D/s relationships to ones I've had with lovers in the past, and not friendship and family relationships.  With men I was with in vanilla, I had to keep a large part of myself hidden.  They wanted to see only the good stuff, for me to handle all the hard emotional baggage myself.  I couldn't grow with them, I was stifled and felt trapped and unloved...and I ended up always being the one who left.  Within D/s, relationships might have to be temporary from the start (one sub of mine was in his low twenties), but they have to accept all of who I am and try to deal with it.  I would hate to lose someone I loved because of this...but if they don't really see me for all of who I am, they are not really with me anyway.  I want a partner, not an audience.
 
quote:

Do you let your submissive(s) see your weakest moments?
I don't often have weakest moments, but during the year when my friend was dying and the first year after her death were the worst.  I stayed away from CM and did not have a submissive to help me through those difficult times.  I would love to have had a knight in my corner, by my side when I went to her grave to leave flowers, or to growl at her hateful relatives who came crawling out of the woodwork and were so evil.  (I can understand why Carin had nothing to do with them and insisted that nobody be notified that she was dying.  They threatened to sue me and take away my house, because I had her buried through the funeral parlor of her choice, right here in WV instead of where they wanted her, in Ohio.)  There is something very nice about being at the end of your rope, not wanting to cry...and being able to tell a man, "Go deal with them for me."




LadyNTrainer -> RE: A Domme's Vulnerability (11/24/2010 8:20:09 AM)

Fuck PETA. You don't have to be an extreme animal "rights" activist to have a very, very low opinion of people who harass and kill wildlife for no good reason. The snake you see is not the snake you are in any danger from; it is trivially easy just to walk away and leave the animal alone. Attacking it is absolutely not justified, and frankly I think it's pretty fucking disgusting.

Re: the OP, I have a hard time being vulnerable to anyone. I do trust my primary partner enough, at least some of the time, to show him some vulnerability. I'm still working through those issues with my secondary, because I do believe in working towards personal transparency and I would like to be able to be more forthcoming and open with him. I figure I'll get there given a few more years, but it will always be an uphill battle for me as it's never been easy for me to let anyone else see even a momentary "weakness".

I am more likely if something genuinely hurts or upsets me to withdraw for awhile, take time to think about it rationally and take care of myself emotionally, then return and communicate calmly to my partners what I feel went wrong and how we can constructively fix it. With my primary I *may* be able to actually show him some of what I feel. With my secondary I experience something of an emotional stone wall between me and my actual feelings. I tell him calmly and rationally that when X happened, it caused me pain, so I'd like to take steps to avoid X happening again. But he doesn't really see the pain. Fairly often *I* don't see the pain, or become really aware of what I am feeling, until I've had time to process it rationally and figure out why there is this distant dull sensation of something being dreadfully wrong.

There's upsides and downsides to dealing with feelings this way. The upside is that I generally deal with anger the same way, and nobody in my family is likely to get yelled at. We always talk things out in a calm and rational way, not blaming or yelling but focused on how to make things better in the future. The downside is that I am not always emotionally accessible even to myself, and my feelings can be something of a perpetual flatline. Compartmentalizing like this spills over to all of my feelings, positive and negative. I'm just not aware of feeling much of anything most of the time, to the point that I've considered whether I may actually be dissociative to some degree. That's not necessarily a good thing.



LadyPact -> RE: A Domme's Vulnerability (11/24/2010 8:36:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

Fuck PETA. You don't have to be an extreme animal "rights" activist to have a very, very low opinion of people who harass and kill wildlife for no good reason. The snake you see is not the snake you are in any danger from; it is trivially easy just to walk away and leave the animal alone. Attacking it is absolutely not justified, and frankly I think it's pretty fucking disgusting.

Frankly, too bad.  The snake you see and kill today is the one that doesn't become an issue for the children or the domestic animals that are on the property next week.  Who said anything about harassing?  Removing a potential threat from the property is higher on My list than the life of the snake.  Feel disgusted all you like.

(Sorry to the OP for the hijack.)



81song -> RE: A Domme's Vulnerability (11/24/2010 9:37:41 AM)

As to the subject at hand I think yes Domme are like everyone else and one should at first respect the whole person. A Domme sat down with me one day and just told me, hey I am a real person here and I have my likes and dis likes and my ups and downs. If a sub just thinks in the fantasy  world then they do not have a chance in not only meeting a real Domme but one should not worry about crying, it is the not  the crying  one should worry about but the not crying or able to is what I would worry about.



YSG -> RE: A Domme's Vulnerability (11/24/2010 9:43:44 AM)

Personally, Im with LP here. If I saw this in my backyard:

[image]http://www.covemountainkennels.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/rattlesnake.jpg[/image]

I'd be calling animal control.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: A Domme's Vulnerability (11/24/2010 10:24:04 AM)

Oh for sure, Geoff, I don't deal with poisonous snakes! But other kinds I will remove and put outside. :)

LnT, I am much the same, though for different reasons I'm sure. Transparency is a great idea, and maybe someday I'll be able to trust a man that much again. For now, I only share what I feel safe with.



Lockit -> RE: A Domme's Vulnerability (11/24/2010 10:28:26 AM)

Good lord, I would rather see a cock shot! I can't even bear to look at those. If a book goes flying across a room, you might consider I came upon a snake in it. I moved into an area where it was all new housing in the middle of CA. no where. We had three houses between ours and the bus stop and we would count the snakes on the way to the bus stop. One day there were sixteen. Mom had to kill one in our house. People were dying quite often and we even had police come to our school to talk to us about what they were calling was the king rattle snake, the biggest they had ever seen.

I will never forget the news story of the three year old in her bed saying a snake was biting her and her parents finding no snake until the morning, where it was laying at her feet again and she lay dead.

We all have a different perspective on something like this. It isn't like we are killing a bunny that is eating our plants.

My men know that you just don't mess with me about snakes and anyone who might do so, will die. lol Even after my son's brain damage, he saw a snake on tv and motioned for me not to look. That's a fear that everyone can see. lol



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