Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: M/s but not forever


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: M/s but not forever Page: <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/29/2006 8:20:02 PM   
Reasonable


Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		I still wonder at this forever expectaton. Could not a time frame merely be a renewal negotiation date?

(in reply to twicehappy)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/29/2006 8:28:54 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou

Would you consider it to be a Master/slave relationship if the Master told the slave up front that it will not be forever?




Even if we work out wonderful and never find a reason or a need to break up there is one fact of human life that I am well aware of: I will die.

Given this fact, I would never, ever promise "forever" to anyone.



_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to kisshou)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 5:16:28 AM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Reasonable

I still wonder at this forever expectaton. Could not a time frame merely be a renewal negotiation date?



Maybe for some, but not for me. Call me very old school but all negotiations aside once i accept a collar as a slave the negotiations are a moot point. True i have only accepted a collar when my body, brain, heart and my sixth sense told me yes, this is it. Believe me during the 6 year search i spoke with and met many, and knew on the first meeting it was a no until i met ScooterTrash and ShiftedJewel. When i got off the plane and touched him i knew immediately it was yes to both of them.

For me a collar is until one of us no longer walks the face of the earth. And i'll tell you something else; in truth i still bear those previous collars around my heart and always shall. Should be interesting when we all meet up together to ride in the sky. 



_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to Reasonable)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 5:34:30 AM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		What an absolutely beautiful post.

(in reply to twicehappy)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 6:15:20 AM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

For me a collar is until one of us no longer walks the face of the earth. And i'll tell you something else; in truth i still bear those previous collars around my heart and always shall. Should be interesting when we all meet up together to ride in the sky. 


I have to say that I have this same curiosity... I wonder what it will be like a hundred years from now, when SR and I, along with all those who are still part of what we are shaping, have shed the mortal coil and we are sharing time/space with LEB and EMB across the Veils (unless they choose to recycle before then *chuckles*)... will the changes in me honor the teachings they gave? How will our household look when they are part of it again... and how gracefully will we handle the challenges of that occurence? All I know is that I still love them dearly, and that it will be something to cherish and learn from. *smiles*

Lady Zephyr



_____________________________


"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to twicehappy)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 8:07:49 AM   
denika


Posts: 619
Joined: 8/30/2005
Status: offline 		The future is one of those variables that no matter how much planning we do, no matter how much forsight we have there are no guarantee's on anthing. The best we can do is live to the best of our  expectations.  I have relationships that I truly hope last for my natural life, I am a better person for their presence. But I can't say if it will last forever. There are to many variables and uncontrollabe factors.

M/s like  traditional relationships if the connection is right there is never enough time in the world. Unfortunatly forever comes too an end far too soon for us mere mortals.


denika

(in reply to LadiesBladewing)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 8:53:51 AM   
TxBadMan


Posts: 198
Joined: 4/7/2006
From: Moody, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou

Would you consider it to be a Master/slave relationship if the Master told the slave up front that it will not be forever?





When my girl and I first met, it was with the understanding that it would be a D/s relationship. Unfortunatly, it did not work out that way for us. She was not ready to give up control, and I was not ready to force her to choose. We compromised. We are still together, but do not indulge in the actual dynamics outside of S&M. However, both of us are very much aware of the fact that our time is running short. As much as we care for each other, we were not meant to be forever. She will eventually go her way, and I will eventually go mine; both of us searching for something different than what we now share.
It does not change the fact though that I would not give up a single second that I have shared with her.

_____________________________

Chris



(in reply to kisshou)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 9:24:10 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Reasonable

I still wonder at this forever expectaton. Could not a time frame merely be a renewal negotiation date?


What's to negotiate?  He owns me.  There are no negotiations after that.  His word is my rule.  

From his perspective, he invested a good deal of time and energy training me to be a slave who meets his desires, and who he is proud of.  Why would he then decide, "Okay...even though I am quite happy with you, it is time for you to go."

So we return back to the old - "It depends what two people want out of their arrangement." 

(in reply to Reasonable)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 9:47:41 AM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

From his perspective, he invested a good deal of time and energy training me to be a slave who meets his desires, and who he is proud of.  Why would he then decide, "Okay...even though I am quite happy with you, it is time for you to go."



Actually, I can conceive of our household doing this... if we were to percieve that a servant could grow further than our House could take him or her, even if we were -very- pleased with that servant (or perhaps, -especially- if we were very pleased with that servant), we would send them on. We have other groups/houses that we're familiar with that teach service and techniques that we just don't cover here... and for a dedicated servant, capable of learning advanced techniques and improving and growing into something spectactular, why would we -not- send him or her on... why would we -choose- to hold back a talented servant, just because he or she pleased us?

Sometimes, it has nothing to do with having done something -wrong- that causes a servant to change positions... sometimes, it is a gift and a mark of that servant's quality. I can even give myself as a personal example. I served the House for 10 years, with complete dedication. My reward was to be uncollared. Yes, I was taken to mentorship, but what if I hadn't been able to make the transition... what if I had changed too much to continue as a servant, but wasn't cut out to be an Owner? It wouldn't have changed the fact that remaining in collar would have stunted my growth, and I would have had to move on in some other direction.

Nothing is forever. There are no guarantees, and if people do not change, they die... and wherever people change, there is the possibility that the things that worked once will not work any more. Even love goes through these transitions... sometimes it is flexible enough to withstand the stretches and twists... sometimes it isn't... but why would -anyone- make promises on something they could not control? (And the future is something that none of us can control -- we can shape it in the directions we wish it to go, but only with the understanding that the remainder of the Universe also takes a hand in shaping). That is tantamount to a lie.

Lady Zephyr


< Message edited by LadiesBladewing -- 4/30/2006 9:48:52 AM >

_____________________________


"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 10:25:54 AM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou
Would you consider it to be a Master/slave relationship if the Master told the slave up front that it will not be forever?


Of course a Master and slave can and often do exist outside of forever.

Forever is sometimes a vestige of traditional parlance in our psyche; since childhood, we have been hearing that word enunciated (drilled into our heads?) repeatedly when it comes to matters of happiness, marriage and religious practice, and though outliers many of us may be from the more accepted ways, I feel that subconsciously many still are of the mind that the vow of forever is the only true litmus test of authenticity in affection and devotion. I disagree, however; a slave can burn just as brightly, even when knowing she is nothing more than a transient vessel.

In my mind, a proper slave expects life to concede her no possession, save the will to serve and please one who understands her and sees her. She accepts that she holds claim to nothing, as she is herself made into an object to be claimed. Ideally, her belly should ache to be with her Master always, but this should not in any way be tangled with a sense of possession, or be confused as a right to entitlement.

(in reply to kisshou)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 11:02:01 AM   
Reasonable


Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		I agree that insisting that a tenure be 'forever" is tantamount to holding the master to a life sentence.

Who then,is the captive one?

(in reply to amayos)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 11:08:22 AM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Reasonable

I agree that insisting that a tenure be 'forever" is tantamount to holding the master to a life sentence.

Who then, is the captive one?


Precisely.

(in reply to Reasonable)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 11:12:56 AM   
Reasonable


Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		In this day and age,slavery is not a supported institition.

EVERYONE has some sort of motivation in seeking a relationship-none are altruistic. So slaves are automatically suspect in motivation to me, if  they insist on time frames-or find it to be "unreal".

It smacks to me of the common female instinct of trading service and body for security.

And a slave should be anything but common-thay are a different breed alltogether.

< Message edited by Reasonable -- 4/30/2006 11:14:08 AM >

(in reply to amayos)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 11:47:36 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Hmm, I was not saying I expect to be owned by him forever.  I am entitled to nothing at all from him.  It is my understanding, based on knowing his wants and desires, that he would prefer to keep me as long as I am pleasing to him.  Therefore, if I wish to remain in his service, I had better do my part to be so.

Before begging his ownership, I needed to understand his intentions for a slave.  Had he said "I only want someone for a year," I may have looked at the situation differently.  Because his intentions were to own a girl indefinitely so long as she works hard to please him, I felt safe to hand myself over in entirety.

As to LadiesBladewing's post - You are absolutely correct.  At any time he may decide he no longer wishes to be a slave owner.  He may decide it is no longer in my best interest to be owned by him.  He may indeed change, and decide for any number of reasons to release me from his ownership.  Should that occur, I will thank him for having such an influence on my life, and for the privilege of having served him, and will go on. 

I mentioned in my first post on this thread that nothing guarantees forever, but that if I knew up front the ownership would only be for a limited period of time, I don't think I could have given myself over completely.  The OP was about entering into an M/s dynamic, as opposed to characters within that relationship changing over time.  The intention upon starting the relationship is what has relevance to me.

(in reply to Reasonable)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 11:59:32 AM   
Reasonable


Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		I was speaking of others who insisted on forever ,ownedgirlie. It was coming across as ever more nuerotic and insecure to me-and I tend to have a natural revulsion to "clingons".....having had to have scraped one or two "emotional black holes" off in my time-at more cost than I really care to relate.

I realize that you have a more adult attitude towards M/s. Now to me,setting a time limit,ten years 20 years etc.....is only an opportunity for reasessment. If we work together well,it can always be renewed.

But my first order of business in taking on a slave is simply this. I do hold firm to the concept of internal honor and solidity. I REFUSE to make a promise that I may not be able to keep for the rest of my life.

I cannot plan ahead twenty years, and cover everything that may possibly occur. I cannot SEE where myself and another person will be then,or how we will feel about each other.

So for me to make a promise that seals a collar forever,not KNOWING, would be a LIE. Even if I meant it in good faith at the time-and that lie would hollow me out over the years like acid-until nothing was left inside.

And I will not ask a girl to give her all-based on a patently ridiculous falsehood, like......."forever".

< Message edited by Reasonable -- 4/30/2006 12:02:08 PM >

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 12:07:42 PM   
EvilGeoff


Posts: 523
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou
Would you consider it to be a Master/slave relationship if the Master told the slave up front that it will not be forever?


Length of service does not, by itself, validate, or invalidate, a Master/slave relationship.   If you are looking for "forever" that's all well and good.  If you are not, that's fine too.  Human beings don't last forever, without change.  The grow, mature, learn.  Sometimes two or more humans will grow together, sometimes they will grow apart.

Sometimes Owners want their slaves for sex and romance and erotic fun.  Sometimes they just want them for house and/or yardwork.  I have one slave for the sex and romance, and I would certainly not object to one for the yardwork too.  And either one may or may not be "forever".  Who is to say?  I live my life, and handle my relationships, one day at a time.  I'll deal with tomorrow when it arrives.  And I don't worry about "forever".  I have plenty on my plate right now, thank you.  It's enough for today.

YIK,
- Geoff

< Message edited by EvilGeoff -- 4/30/2006 12:13:59 PM >

(in reply to kisshou)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 12:08:56 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		This then goes back to previous threads we have had here, re: giving one's word, and making promises.  I contend that there are no promises, only intentions.  People change.  Dynamics change.  Needs and desires change.  To give one's word "I will not ever do this as long as I own you" is a falsehood, and then traps the owner, possibly years down the road, to be held to something that no longer applies.  "It is my intention to not ever do that" goes a lot further, in my book.

But...that was not the purpose of this thread. 

For me, to be owned is to give completely.  It is also my Master's expectation to take completely that which is his.  He does not partially own me, he fully owns me.  And so, the intention remains, to own indefinitely, and to own completely in that duration. We did come to a cross roads once, where we both reviewed and assessed his ownership of me - Did he still want me, and did I still want to be owned by him?  It was a painful process, and one I hope we do not have to endure again.

(in reply to Reasonable)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 12:15:19 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

to own completely in that duration


I think duration is the word.
People define it differently.  And because one M/s relationship is not forever (whatever *that* means), that does not lessen the intention or behavior of those involved in that partnership.  And even if it is of limited duration, that may sometimes (although not always) change. 

I just grin (and shrug) when I see so many promising "forever", and then a few weeks later, they are looking for a new partner.  That really lessens the entire meaning of ownership, in my opinion.


_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 12:21:23 PM   
Reasonable


Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you ownedgirlie. I was merely addressing the ethical dillema that the lack of reality that many potential slaves seem to be afflicted with,inflicts upon the Masters they so desire..

And to bring to thier attention-just why this is not feasible to have as an attitude. the only consistent in life is change,and such rigidity can become a deathtrap for the soul,especially for honorable men and women.

If you are not ABSOLUTELY sure you can-don't make the promise.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 12:30:09 PM   
JassWolf


Posts: 59
Joined: 4/10/2006
Status: offline 		I very much like the distinction that has been made (in other threads as well) between "intent" and "promise." Indeed, I'd guess that well-meaning folk indeed mean the necessary caveats that go with a temporal, human statement. "I promise" means, with the sloppy language most of us use, "I intend and plan, so long as circumstances and my ability and lifespan allow ...."

And because human beings of all stripes change over time, revisiting our intentions and plans periodically only makes sense. Many a disaster has occurred not because people fail to make the effort but because one, or both, find new priorities in life.

Am I obvious? Sure.

JW

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 80
Page:   <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: M/s but not forever Page: <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.093