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RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 3:46:06 PM

genvieve

Posts: 228
Joined: 5/14/2005
From: SF Bay Area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reasonable

genvieve, while I can respect your feelings,also realize that this can ultimately lead to a codendent relationship where one can feel so committed to a relationship that one refuses to leave. Even while being terribly damaged.

Please people,keep in mind this-survival of self is always the first law-you have nothing without it.

Yes, definately...this can and will begin a sense of codependency... which is why, a collar should not be taken lightly. Like a wedding ring, it should not be entered without complete certancy.

Now, certainly... if i were "sure" about my Master...and later in life, He showed up to be abusive... i would leave Him.

But i believe, what the original question was... was whether or not it is wise to enter into a D/s relationship... when one can see a foreseeable future. i do not read this as... something will have to happen for the relationship to end... i read it as "O/our relationship will end when i finish college" or "when things get too difficult with my wife and i" etc, etc.

Just my oppinion

_____________________________

In the quietness of myself, i find myself at the mercy of Your hand.

Musical Wishes Design

(in reply to Reasonable)

Post #: 81

RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 3:59:27 PM

Reasonable

Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline

Topics often evolve to explore different facets of an origional question. Off topic,yes-but they often still address and clarify a portion of the origional intent.

So it is, in the world of message boards.

(in reply to genvieve)

Post #: 82

RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 5:12:58 PM

twicehappy

Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reasonable

I agree that insisting that a tenure be 'forever" is tantamount to holding the master to a life sentence.

quote:

was speaking of others who insisted on forever ,ownedgirlie. It was coming across as ever more nuerotic and insecure to me

I never once brought up forever, nor did either of my owners, knowing me, knowing them, it was a given on all our parts that if i accepted a collar either of the times i did, it was until one of us walked this earth no more.

quote:

It smacks to me of the common female instinct of trading service and body for security.

When i entered the collar i was in for 18 years (he passed) i owned my own home and worked two jobs. I always made more money than he did. When i entered my current collar i owed nothing period. I have money in the bank and a sufficient retirement. The only issue my current owners and i had was i was insisting on working, i always cover my own needs, and they did not want me to work. So now i stay home, and i understand their reasoning.

But to imply i traded my body or service for this, well i find that insulting.

I give 100%of myself, body, mind, heart soul to the one/ones whose collar i accept in return for their 100% domination, because i love, for no other reason.

As an uncollared female in the past 6 years trust me i had many offered, some in exchange for what you implicated. For me that is not what it is about.

quote:

I realize that you have a more adult attitude towards M/s. Now to me,setting a time limit,ten years 20 years etc.

I guess you have me there; here is an excerpt from my Masters profile, you are right, he only demanded i stay collared for a couple of hundred years or so, then permanently.

"We have a real time 24/7 female sub/slave currently and she fits us like a glove. I don't anticipate her going anywhere for a couple hundred years or so, so I guess saying she is permanent is an understatement."

And Mistress only promises a lifetime, not forever

we collared our tess. What a perfect fit she is! Finally, someone that loves my vampire gloves as much as I do!! We're all looking forward to a lifetime of happiness.

quote:

I was merely addressing the ethical dillema that the lack of reality that many potential slaves seem to be afflicted with,inflicts upon the Masters they so desire..
And to bring to thier attention-just why this is not feasible to have as an attitude. the only consistent in life is change,and such rigidity can become a deathtrap for the soul,especially for honorable men and women.

When you find your lifemates you grow and change with them. The only ethical dilemma for me would have been accepting a collar when i did not mean forever.

Not feasible, ok, maybe for you. Cynicism has its place in the grand scheme of things.

Not feasible for others? Wrong, there are too many unexplainable wonderful things in the world. I still believe in love, having known it without reservation, having watched it expand until it filled the farthest horizon in my heart. My sun sank when he left this mortal coil but i did not cease to believe in its warmth. Nor did the loss of one light stop me from eventually seeking its heat again. I think rather because i believed in the possibility of forever it led me to find that kind of love once more.

Only this time i have found twin suns to light my path and bring warmth to my being.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to Reasonable)

Post #: 83

RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 5:14:32 PM

Reasonable

Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline

Smiles,and I used you,and your name,or quoted you-where?

(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 84

RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 5:18:46 PM

ScooterTrash

Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline

I think she was just using your points as focus for her specific situation and beliefs, not necessarily doing a retaliatory thing as if you had directed them to her personally.

_____________________________

Formal symbolic representation of qualitative entities is doomed to its rightful place of minor significance in a world where flowers and beautiful women abound.
-Albert Einstein

(in reply to Reasonable)

Post #: 85

RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 5:22:16 PM

Reasonable

Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline

Ahh,ok Scooter.

I feel better........you're a damn lucky guy-but you already knew that,didn't you?

(in reply to ScooterTrash)

Post #: 86

RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 7:17:51 PM

LadiesBladewing

Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: genvieve

Yes, definately...this can and will begin a sense of codependency... which is why, a collar should not be taken lightly. Like a wedding ring, it should not be entered without complete certancy.

Now, certainly... if i were "sure" about my Master...and later in life, He showed up to be abusive... i would leave Him.

But i believe, what the original question was... was whether or not it is wise to enter into a D/s relationship... when one can see a foreseeable future. i do not read this as... something will have to happen for the relationship to end... i read it as "O/our relationship will end when i finish college" or "when things get too difficult with my wife and i" etc, etc.

Just my oppinion

Using a collar like a wedding-ring is -not- a solution to dealing with the potential for codependent relationships...it merely legitimizes a co-dependent relationship by calling it a marriage and claiming that the co-dependency is "commitment". True commitment cannot exist except between individuals who are completely honest with themselves and with their potential partner about their expectations -and- who are able and willing to be completely honest with themselves through the entirity of the process... including being able and willing to say when something isn't working, and even end an unhealthy relationship before it becomes damaging.

Implying that the promise of a permanent commitment guarantees emotional, mental, physical and spiritual health for all the parties completely defies the reality, which is that no matter how many promises are made, some relationships do not and cannot work out in a healthy manner, at which point, the promises of permanence become a crutch on which broken, damaged relationships are hung until someone either has the sense to let go or the individuals destroy each other. Being honest with oneself and emotionally stable enough to handle such an outcome is a pre-requisite for entering -any- relationship, since nobody can know how individuals will react, or what things are buried beneath the surface until they are fully immersed in one another's lives.

Lady Zephyr

_____________________________

"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to genvieve)

Post #: 87

RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 7:21:29 PM

Reasonable

Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline

I have seen exactly what you describe happen,many many times.

It's a main reason I have had such a strong negative reaction through this entire thread. You get what you put up with-but why invite disaster at the very outset?

< Message edited by Reasonable -- 4/30/2006 7:22:08 PM >

(in reply to LadiesBladewing)

Post #: 88

RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 8:27:45 PM

akisha

Posts: 2071
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline

Putting everything you have into it doesn't always work either if the other person doesn't do the same.

_____________________________

I'm confused.... No wait!!! Maybe I'm not

It's not a blonde moment! It's momentary peroxide posioning. ;)

Your pain makes me smile ~ Happy Bunny

532-095-649

(in reply to Reasonable)

Post #: 89

RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 8:30:33 PM

Reasonable

Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline

Which is why my rule number one for any sort of a relationship is always this:

"Responsibility is always mutual-no one rides for free."

(in reply to akisha)

Post #: 90

RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 10:28:07 PM

Takethiswaltz

Posts: 199
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

I have seen much beauty in the depth of vanilla relationships that have lasted 50 years.
Why is this not possible for D/s as well?
Some may answer, " we never said it was not possible".
But it isn't really, if you don't go into with the intent to make it possible.

_____________________________

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in...

~Leonard Cohen~

(in reply to Reasonable)

Post #: 91

RE: M/s but not forever - 4/30/2006 11:32:12 PM

Reasonable

Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline

Many things are possible. I simply prefer to allow them to happen-those things which ones tries to force, are often like the fresh pumpkin seed.

The harder you grasp them,the faster they escape your fingers.

(in reply to Takethiswaltz)

Post #: 92

RE: M/s but not forever - 5/1/2006 12:02:25 AM

CERCKL

Posts: 1039
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Many things are possible. I simply prefer to allow them to happen-those things which ones tries to force, are often like the fresh pumpkin seed.

The harder you grasp them,the faster they escape your fingers.

I have disagreed with many of your viewpoints, not all...but you have apparently been very forthcoming in your posts...now this one I love; especially the visuals...

I think personally, looking at Takethiswaltz's (great name BTW) view of why can't there be long term (decades) relationships in D/s and the question of intent...intent may be there, desire to...but sometimes as Reasonable pointed out just allowing it to exist may be beneficial, if the depth, beauty of 'forever' is desired.
It may not be 'forced' pressing it through the fingers...but with the expectations, attachments to the concept, may cause one to loose what one seeks...all things change, evolve and eventually decay and die; nature shows us that...and that decay seems to be the grounds for new birth, growth...allowing a relationship to grow and continue I feel is based on a strong foundation of a multitude of elements...and if any of those elements are grossly injured or missing, the death is probable, or at the very least the growth is stunted...
Still, intent is important, perhaps the most important, it's just following intent without allowing one to be overly affected if the path changes from that desired. Good or bad, it did exist at one time and from it either the same relationship will grow, or another will...or just tie her to the bed tightly and flog her soundly <wry grin>

C

_____________________________

AND I AM TOO AN ASSHOLE, I HAVE REFERENCES!!!

"Please, please, please believe me, I really am an asshole. All that Enlightenment and Higher Learning shit was all a ruse."

(in reply to Reasonable)

Post #: 93

RE: M/s but not forever - 5/1/2006 12:08:27 AM

Reasonable

Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline

But if one grasps the seed gently,allows it to dry over time......slides the fingers slowly over the surface as it shifts.....it will stay. Even then,you cannot keep it there forever, for it will die.

You have to give it to something larger,in which it can grow and flourish. You have to give it to fickle fate,and then see.

(in reply to CERCKL)

Post #: 94

RE: M/s but not forever - 5/1/2006 12:12:49 AM

CERCKL

Posts: 1039
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline

Exactly...

C

_____________________________

AND I AM TOO AN ASSHOLE, I HAVE REFERENCES!!!

"Please, please, please believe me, I really am an asshole. All that Enlightenment and Higher Learning shit was all a ruse."

(in reply to Reasonable)

Post #: 95

RE: M/s but not forever - 5/1/2006 12:13:27 AM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reasonable
I agree that insisting that a tenure be 'forever" is tantamount to holding the master to a life sentence

quote:

was speaking of others who insisted on forever ,ownedgirlie. It was coming across as ever more nuerotic and insecure to me

I never once brought up forever, nor did either of my owners, knowing me, knowing them, it was a given on all our parts that if i accepted a collar either of the times i did, it was until one of us walked this earth no more.

quote:

It smacks to me of the common female instinct of trading service and body for security.

When i entered the collar i was in for 18 years (he passed) i owned my own home and worked two jobs. I always made more money than he did. When i entered my current collar i owed nothing period. I have money in the bank and a sufficient retirement. The only issue my current owners and i had was i was insisting on working, i always cover my own needs, and they did not want me to work. So now i stay home, and i understand their reasoning.

But to imply i traded my body or service for this, well i find that insulting.

I give 100%of myself, body, mind, heart soul to the one/ones whose collar i accept in return for their 100% domination, because i love, for no other reason.

quote:

I was merely addressing the ethical dillema that the lack of reality that many potential slaves seem to be afflicted with,inflicts upon the Masters they so desire..
And to bring to thier attention-just why this is not feasible to have as an attitude. the only consistent in life is change,and such rigidity can become a deathtrap for the soul,especially for honorable men and women.

When you find your lifemates you grow and change with them. The only ethical dilemma for me would have been accepting a collar when i did not mean forever.

Not feasible, ok, maybe for you. Cynicism has its place in the grand scheme of things.

Not feasible for others? Wrong, there are too many unexplainable wonderful things in the world. I still believe in love, having known it without reservation, having watched it expand until it filled the farthest horizon in my heart. My sun sank when he left this mortal coil but i did not cease to believe in its warmth. Nor did the loss of one light stop me from eventually seeking its heat again. I think rather because i believed in the possibility of forever it led me to find that kind of love once more.

Only this time i have found twin suns to light my path and bring warmth to my being.

Perfectly and beautifully expressed. I love to read about great connections, and to learn from them. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 96

RE: M/s but not forever - 5/1/2006 3:08:57 AM

Takethiswaltz

Posts: 199
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

...or just tie her to the bed tightly and flog her soundly <wrygrin>
C

Ah-ha! I suspect those lucky vanilla folk who have been together 50 years may in fact have done this a time or two.

_____________________________

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in...

~Leonard Cohen~

(in reply to CERCKL)

Post #: 97

RE: M/s but not forever - 5/1/2006 3:20:50 AM

twicehappy

Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reasonable

Ahh,ok Scooter.

I feel better........you're a damn lucky guy-but you already knew that,didn't you?

I thank you for your understanding and apologize if you felt jumped at, i completely comprehend your point of view having seen what you describe.

but i am the lucky one here......

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to Reasonable)

Post #: 98

RE: M/s but not forever - 5/1/2006 2:20:44 PM

genvieve

Posts: 228
Joined: 5/14/2005
From: SF Bay Area
Status: offline

~giggles~ Yes, well...i hadn't a problem with Your response... i was merely clarifying the point for which i was addressing.

_____________________________

In the quietness of myself, i find myself at the mercy of Your hand.

Musical Wishes Design

(in reply to Reasonable)

Post #: 99

RE: M/s but not forever - 5/1/2006 2:25:00 PM

genvieve

Posts: 228
Joined: 5/14/2005
From: SF Bay Area
Status: offline

While i can certainly understand your view-point and even agree with it. What i was actually, refering to was the ability to see the endpoint of the relationship. i do not believe that a Master/Mistress-submissive relationship should be entered at all when an endpoint can be seen.

Certainly, there are unforseeable circumstances that occur. "O/our lives go seperate ways", etc... but i'm talking about the relationship, as it stands now... do i see an endpoint? If i see one... i'm not likely to accept the collar.

_____________________________

In the quietness of myself, i find myself at the mercy of Your hand.

Musical Wishes Design

(in reply to LadiesBladewing)

Post #: 100

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