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RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/29/2010 9:02:36 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		No, Ken. You wanted to focus on the bark of a particular tree, rather than view the forest, which was on fire. Pretty much as you are trying here, hoping to get into the theory, rather than the problem that nobody cares about it anymore.



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RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/29/2010 10:07:24 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

No, Ken. You wanted to focus on the bark of a particular tree, rather than view the forest, which was on fire. Pretty much as you are trying here, hoping to get into the theory, rather than the problem that nobody cares about it anymore.




The "global warmers" are just like the 9/11 "truthers."
You prove them wrong on one point and they come up with another, and another, and another. It never ends with those people!
We have a warm fall this year, "Global warming!"
We had a very cold fall last year. "Global warming!"
Two years ago Georgia had a drought. "Global warming!"
Now two years later that drought is gone and they have plenty of water. "Global warming!"
I had trouble starting my car this morning. "Global warming!"
Then, I bought a new battery and it started. "Global fuckin warming!"

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RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/29/2010 10:13:41 PM   
Elisabella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh...........well........................I'm hoping that was directed at Popeye, otherwise you have a severe problem recognizing sarcasm.  Especially when it is so obvious.



I could say the same about you.

Seriously, the "cat food" thing didn't give it away? I've never been accused of being subtle.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/29/2010 10:15:18 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Well I hope you disposed of the old battery properly, Popeye. Those things are bad for the planet, you know.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/29/2010 10:20:26 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Well I hope you disposed of the old battery properly, Popeye. Those things are bad for the planet, you know.


I did, threw it in the river with a bunch of others.


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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/29/2010 10:42:24 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Popeye is one of the dumbes people I have ever run across. He is really really stupid.

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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/30/2010 6:52:49 AM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

No, Ken. You wanted to focus on the bark of a particular tree, rather than view the forest, which was on fire. Pretty much as you are trying here, hoping to get into the theory, rather than the problem that nobody cares about it anymore.



I'm interested in facts and in the best science. You seem to be interested solely in protecting your standard of living no matter what happens to later generations.

Once again the best available science, backed by all available facts on the subject, show that human released CO2 is warming the planet. That warming could have disastrous effects upon our civilization.

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/30/2010 7:40:00 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

No, Ken. You wanted to focus on the bark of a particular tree, rather than view the forest, which was on fire. Pretty much as you are trying here, hoping to get into the theory, rather than the problem that nobody cares about it anymore.



I'm interested in facts and in the best science. You seem to be interested solely in protecting your standard of living no matter what happens to later generations.

Once again the best available science, backed by all available facts on the subject, show that human released CO2 is warming the planet. That warming could have disastrous effects upon our civilization.



Unfortunately, you're talking to people who couldnt pass a HS chemistry class if their life depended on it.

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/30/2010 1:39:56 PM   
luckydawg


Posts: 2448
Joined: 9/2/2009
Status: offline 		Then why are the only Political solutions put on the Table based on shipping large parts of the World Economy out of the USA?


Why don't we get analysis from the Leading scientists as to how much more pollution (carbon is not the only relevant pollution in the enviroment) is released per joule of energy in places like China or India or mexico.  and lets factor in lower wages and fewer rights for the workers.

Is more mercury in the Pacific Ocean from Coal plants in China worth a small decrease in the USA's CO2 output (which is offset by the increase in Co2 from China?  I kind of doubt it.

You guys wasted 15 years insisting on the ridiculous POLITICAL solution of KYOTO.  Can you admit that Ken?  Hill?  If it was so important why support a documne that would simply shift economic activity out of AMERICA to places with worse enviromental controlls?  Which are exempt from CO2 limits anyway?  Why pick arbitrary dates that allow the EU to avoid most of the pain?

I think that there is an effect by CO2 output.  I also think some folks use that to exaggerate for political reasons. 


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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/30/2010 2:52:36 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Actually one of the biggest solutions to AGW is the development of green energy industries. The US used to be and could still be a leader in this but the energy companies and their political allies have done everything in their considerable power to prevent any significant development or investment from occuring. That's why the US pioneered wind and solar power but now trail behind Germany and others in the EU in development of high effeciency wind turbines and solar panels.

The jobs, hgh tech and high paying, resulting from manufacturing the wind turbines and solar panels would have been here if not for deacades of short sighted conservatives ignoring the rest of the world investing in those industries.

(in reply to luckydawg)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/30/2010 2:54:33 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		As to Kyoto, it was a poltical treaty arrived at by negotiation it was not based on the best science but on politics. Blaming environmentalists for the failings of Kyoto is silly.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/30/2010 3:05:13 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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Status: offline 		Even at that, the discourse is rather a WTF?, since we are not a signatory to that protocol for several reasons. 

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/30/2010 4:44:52 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Mostly because Al Gore signed it, rather than Clinton, if memory serves.

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/30/2010 7:04:05 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline 		Alright- skipping over the past 5 pages of venom, here are the facts-

The notion of reducing the carbon output and usage is not controversial anywhere but cable news and blogs; in my industry, buildings and construction, (which account for 60% of all energy used), the principles of building sustainably are firmly mainstream, and rapidly becoming the norm by which buildings are built.

Why? not because of Al Gore or any political notions, but because of the bottom line- energy, transportation, the cost of cleaning up fouled land and water are expensive, and will only get more so with no end in sight.

Think of the principle of "embedded energy"- within every single product you own or consume, is energy- used to obatin the raw materials, process them, assemble it into a product, ship it, house it in a store, and so on. As energy grows ever more expensive, those products and processes that use it more efficiently will survive, and those that don't, won't.

If you as a real estate developer/ industrialist don't build/ make things more efficiently, you will be out of business.

Whether you agree or disagree with AGW is irrelevant; the green economy is already seeing huge benefits, financial and otherwise, from building and making things differently than we used to.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/30/2010 7:30:08 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		Bottom line is this.

Our civilization as we know it depends on oil.

Not in the form of burning it for energy but in the form of petrochemicals

Oil is too valuable to burn.

Oil is a FINITE resource. It wont be this year or next but we WILL run out.

WHEN. not if we run out, WHEN we run out civilization as we know it will be impossible.

Whether you believe in man made global warming or not is unimportant. OIL is too damn important to civilization to burn it.

Oil companies dont want to change. Their present business model is too profitable. FUCK the future. Therefore, they pay BIG bucks to political pundits to convince semi-literate people that 'green living' is against mom and apple pie.

Are you one of those semi-literate people?


Humans have been on the planet for about 2.4 million years. I, for one, would like to see us hang around for more than a hundred or so more years.

(in reply to AnimusRex)
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RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/30/2010 7:30:38 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

As to Kyoto, it was a poltical treaty arrived at by negotiation it was not based on the best science but on politics. Blaming environmentalists for the failings of Kyoto is silly.


DomKen, correct and if you're going to allow the "U.N." to be involved in "global warming" you're going to have more politics all over again! Wasn't it they who"crafted" that Kyoto thing?
Why would any of you want the "U.N." involved in this in the first place? They just view it as another money making scam.
They're just a giant beuaracracy that can't do anything but have "lunches" and "dinners" and "high tea" on occaision. If you're going to associate yourselves with them and Al Gore no-one's going to take you seriously. They'll just laugh at you.
That fat pig Al Gore made at least $100 Million off of this and he's buying million dollar houses, yachts and covorting with hookers in hotel rooms. Now he's a laughing stock.
If you guys want people to take you seriously you need to "drain the swamp."

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 11/30/2010 7:31:21 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 12/1/2010 5:46:10 AM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
They're just a giant beuaracracy that can't do anything but have "lunches" and "dinners" and "high tea" on occaision.

Bosnia ring any bells?

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 12/1/2010 6:55:27 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline 		I didn't want to follow this sort of debate without doing some serious homework. I could of moaned and belittled those amongst us that clearly believe we are the culprits of global warming. I could of told you about the Thames freezing over 30 years ago and the sweltering summers I enjoyed as a child but that doesn't get any of us anywhere apart from a heated tit for tat debate.
In my earlier post on another thread, I stated that although I believe in global warming, I believed it to be of natural occurrence. This conclusion came from many sources of misinformation and after much reading, I do now seriously believe that we are a major contributor to global warming.

This is an excellent paper http://ldesign.wordpress.com/2007/01/29/55/




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RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 12/1/2010 11:35:41 AM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

I didn't want to follow this sort of debate without doing some serious homework. I could of moaned and belittled those amongst us that clearly believe we are the culprits of global warming. I could of told you about the Thames freezing over 30 years ago and the sweltering summers I enjoyed as a child but that doesn't get any of us anywhere apart from a heated tit for tat debate.
In my earlier post on another thread, I stated that although I believe in global warming, I believed it to be of natural occurrence. This conclusion came from many sources of misinformation and after much reading, I do now seriously believe that we are a major contributor to global warming.

This is an excellent paper http://ldesign.wordpress.com/2007/01/29/55/

Congratulations. You have done what so few have done, examine the actual science and come to the logical and only reasonable conclusion.

(in reply to allthatjaz)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 12/1/2010 7:31:50 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
You seem to be interested solely in protecting your standard of living no matter what happens to later generations.


When in doubt, go for the personal attack. Par for your course, Ken.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 100
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