RE: Wikileaks (Full Version)

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tweakabelle -> RE: Wikileaks (12/11/2010 2:51:13 AM)

Edwynne's posts confirm the broad outline that has emerged bit-by-bit in the media here in Australia over the past few days. The sex crime case against Assange seems to be getting weaker and weaker with each passing day.

There is another individual said to be deeply implicated in these leaks. His name is Bradley Manning, a 22 yo US citizen. You can find out a bit about what's happening with Bradley Manning here:

http://www.freebradley.org/english.html




Politesub53 -> RE: Wikileaks (12/11/2010 1:08:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

So, in your view, are the (as yet unproven) risks of such a magnitude that they justify usurping the freedom of the Internet?


Firstly I have never claimed that, although I do think you should read what I have said to you on more than one occassion. In my view the media have a responsibility in how they handle leaked information. You may not have heard of David Kelly, he was a scientist in the UK caught up in the dossiers that lead to the Iraq information. New Labour leaked his name to the media, who then hounded him, he later committed suicide. I,for one, think both Government and press were shamefull in leaking his name. If that doesnt convince you of what I am saying then nothing will.




Icarys -> RE: Wikileaks (12/11/2010 5:49:11 PM)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhTfOL9_HBE




Icarys -> RE: Wikileaks (12/12/2010 5:37:48 PM)

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/6032439/WIKILEAKS_Press_Conference_SVT_both_women_accusing_Assange_of_ra




allthatjaz -> RE: Wikileaks (12/13/2010 8:30:24 AM)

Very interesting read but I clicked on some of the links too and I can't believe that some fool has downloaded those women's addresses.




Moonhead -> RE: Wikileaks (12/13/2010 8:47:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

So, in your view, are the (as yet unproven) risks of such a magnitude that they justify usurping the freedom of the Internet?


Firstly I have never claimed that, although I do think you should read what I have said to you on more than one occassion. In my view the media have a responsibility in how they handle leaked information. You may not have heard of David Kelly, he was a scientist in the UK caught up in the dossiers that lead to the Iraq information. New Labour leaked his name to the media, who then hounded him, he later committed suicide. I,for one, think both Government and press were shamefull in leaking his name. If that doesnt convince you of what I am saying then nothing will.


Isn't the issue there more that New Labour turned the poor sod over to a mauling from the red tops to try to hide the fact that Blair had committed us to the invasion of a sovereign country under false pretences, though?
It isn't that analogous to most of the drivel wikileaks are coming out with.




Politesub53 -> RE: Wikileaks (12/13/2010 11:48:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Isn't the issue there more that New Labour turned the poor sod over to a mauling from the red tops to try to hide the fact that Blair had committed us to the invasion of a sovereign country under false pretences, though?
It isn't that analogous to most of the drivel wikileaks are coming out with.


I agree with you about Kelly being Blairs fall guy. That doesnt get away from the fact both cases were leaked to the press for political reasons. Most of those arguing with me are suggesting there should be no secrets, so I guess they are okay with Kellys name being leaked.




hertz -> RE: Wikileaks (12/13/2010 2:05:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

I agree with you about Kelly being Blairs fall guy. That doesnt get away from the fact both cases were leaked to the press for political reasons. Most of those arguing with me are suggesting there should be no secrets, so I guess they are okay with Kellys name being leaked.


I don't think that most people are arguing 'no secrets' at all. But there is clearly a difference of opinion about what should legitimately be treated as 'secret' and what should not, and also there is a difference of opinion about who is responsible for keeping those secrets and whether, having been informed about them, a third party should be taking that role.

I believe Wikileaks has a duty to report whatever information comes its way - it's a whistle-blowing media outlet. It's job is to release whatever information it gets given to the public. As soon as it starts to make political decisions about what it does or does not release, it becomes part of the system it is designed to report on, and it becomes useless. On saying that, it also has a responsibility not to behave in a reckless way which unnecessarily endangers lives. Personally, I think it is doing a fine job of this - obviously you disagree.

If you don't like this information coming to the public eye, then you should be looking to the US government to explain why it allowed this to happen.




hertz -> RE: Wikileaks (12/13/2010 2:16:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

You may not have heard of David Kelly, he was a scientist in the UK caught up in the dossiers that lead to the Iraq information. New Labour leaked his name to the media, who then hounded him, he later committed suicide. I,for one, think both Government and press were shamefull in leaking his name. If that doesnt convince you of what I am saying then nothing will.



I disagree with your apparent position that it was the leaking  of David Kelly's name to the press which was the primary reason for his suicide. Mr. Kelly disagreed with Bliar's claim that Iraq could launch WMDs within 45 minutes, and there were other aspects of the government's position on Iraqi WMDs that he disagreed with. I don't think we'll ever know why he died, but it is just as likely that the way he was treated in the Foreign Affairs Select Committee enquiry may have had much to do with it. Whatever, it is quite clear that the information that Bliar deliberately lied to the British public to get us into a war needed to get out.




Politesub53 -> RE: Wikileaks (12/13/2010 4:24:53 PM)

Hertz You say yourself we wont know why he did it. I remain convinced he didnt like to find himself in the spotlight though. As for the Wikileaks, I will reiterate, I have no problem with Wiki releasinf stuff, as long as it doesnt put others in danger.




Rule -> RE: Wikileaks (12/13/2010 4:37:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz
I disagree with your apparent position that it was the leaking  of David Kelly's name to the press which was the primary reason for his suicide. Mr. Kelly disagreed with Bliar's claim that Iraq could launch WMDs within 45 minutes, and there were other aspects of the government's position on Iraqi WMDs that he disagreed with. I don't think we'll ever know why he died,

Myself, I have suspected that his death was not suicide. I do not see why anyone would suicide because he disagreed with his government's policy. On the other hand I can comprehend that such a government or its zecret servize might want such a person murdered.




allthatjaz -> RE: Wikileaks (12/14/2010 8:05:39 AM)

He's out [:D]




Icarys -> RE: Wikileaks (12/14/2010 8:28:57 AM)

I'm extremely glad to hear it but worry it's not just a way to look to the masses as if they're trying to be fair...All the while knowing the real crap will be coming soon enough.

Let's hope I'm wrong and they drop these absurd charges all together.




tazzygirl -> RE: Wikileaks (12/14/2010 11:59:19 AM)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_wikileaks_assange

Seems Assange will remain in jail, for now.




thompsonx -> RE: Wikileaks (12/14/2010 12:07:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: blackpearl81

Here's how I see it:

Julian Assange is a scumbag. Plain and simple. Who or what gave him the right to post classified documents? So, what - just because someone handed him a manilla envelope full of classified documents, he's allowed to post them - all in the name of "transparency" ?


Another thing - is he going to take responsibility for whatever the terrorists do with that information (assuming they get ahold of it eventually)? If these leaks have any identifiable information in them (despite said information being redacted), one can only imagine what the terrorists will do with that: assasination attempts, more bombings, etc. I hardly doubt that. He's an opportunist.




In the real world truth trumps bullshit.
You clearly are not in favor of the truth.





thompsonx -> RE: Wikileaks (12/14/2010 12:37:11 PM)

quote:

If that were all I would agree with you. I think the fact that companies overseas considered vital to US interests could be in danger from terror attacks. IE, attacks on the US by proxy. I am also concerned that some of the leaked documents are said to name US agents, and or sympathisers overseas. From what I read there was a report about one guy who was an ex sporting star at home, and as such easily indentifiable, exposing these people even inadvertantly just isnt right.


I would class that as an occupational safety hazzard. If you don't want a target on your back then don't take the job.




thompsonx -> RE: Wikileaks (12/14/2010 12:41:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


Actually there were plenty of calls for sanctions against media that released stolen documents. Selective enforcement is a bitch.


Besides you and faux news who else?




Politesub53 -> RE: Wikileaks (12/14/2010 12:53:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

I would class that as an occupational safety hazzard. If you don't want a target on your back then don't take the job.


Some of the firms mentioned were aviation companies, these guys have every right to go to work and feel safe. It is hardly as if they signed up to be infantrymen or something is it.




tweakabelle -> RE: Wikileaks (12/15/2010 12:27:48 AM)

On the other hand here's just a few of the criminal enterprises MasterCard. PayPal et al are happy to finance:

http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/12/13/funding-illegal-israeli-settlements-priceless/




Awareness -> RE: Wikileaks (12/15/2010 12:37:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

Very interesting read but I clicked on some of the links too and I can't believe that some fool has downloaded those women's addresses.
Neither can I - that's beyond irresponsible.  Rightly or wrongly, false charge or no, the harassment they will endure as a consequence is not justified under any circumstances.






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