RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (Full Version)

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jujubeeMB -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/2/2010 10:52:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Twoshoes
quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB
 
I don't tend to like rail thin guys. I want my Dom to be bigger than me (which is not very hard), but physically active and a healthy eater.
And I think it's okay for anyone to not pursue people they're not attracted to, but when you're specifically not pursuing that which you are yourself because you consider it unattractive in the opposite sex, I think you are a bit hypocritical. This is also something of a major sexist double standard, because there are a lot of overweight men who won't date overweight women, whereas overweight women are sort of expected to date overweight men. And it kind of pisses me off, even though I'm one of the skinny ones.



Very clever, you. That was my attempt at being polite in a paragraph dedicated to talking about people finding overweight people unattractive. I'm attracted to rail thin guys about as often as they can dominate the crap out of me [;)]

Also, there are no men who are my size. So everyone is bigger than me [:D]



Atropos19 -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/2/2010 10:52:57 PM)

I'm sure there are people my own weight who are better looking than me overall.  I didn't mean to imply otherwise.  What I meant to say was... I have pursued, in my time, both people who I considered to be more or less "in my league," in terms of attractiveness, as well as people I felt were more attractive than me (and that can be about a lot more than just weight, because there are plenty of skinny folks I'm not attracted to as well).  When I talk to someone I know is "above my league," so to speak (and that's a shitty concept to begin with, I agree, but I'm not the one who came up with it), I go in knowing that the odds are probably against me.  But I'd still like to think that my intelligence, sense of humor, personality and whatnot count for *something.*  All too often I'm left feeling as though they don't.  :(

To put it another way, I accept, and don't really have a huge problem with, the fact that I have a strike or two against me, romantically speaking.  But I don't like being dismissed out of hand, and I continue to think those who do so are doing me a disservice.  Would it be any different, for instance, if I didn't talk to someone like you, because I *assumed* you'd be shallow and not interested in talking to someone like me?



Twoshoes -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/2/2010 11:17:00 PM)

It's OK people. I love all of you nearly equally. This thread, on the other hand...

I've been unhappily reminded of that long gone, hopeful visit I made to the candy emporium, only to discover I wasn't tall enough for any candy! And I reached and wished, oh, how I wished, how I reached, but no lovely candy would there be for me. Much to my great fortune, I'm distracted very readily by the brightliest and shiniest of trinkets, all tall and small, so my thoughts of candy are long forgone, yet my endlessly delusive hope glimmers on.

(There was a point to this - really.)



Elisabella -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/2/2010 11:20:33 PM)

quote:

If you can look at me and say, "You're fat, therefore you must be lazy, undisciplined, etc.," why can't I also say to you, "Well, I think you're shallow and judgmental for thinking that way"?


I have no problem with judgmental, because I'm extremely judgmental, but I'm actually pretty deep when it comes to relationships.

The problem with calling someone shallow is that you're implying that beauty is the sole standard they have for a mate. Shallow, to me, is just wanting a pretty face and not caring about the personality. Most people I know want both - someone they are physically and emotionally attracted to.

Besides you say yourself that you're lazy and undisciplined, so I don't know how you can possibly be upset with someone else for seeing what you admit is true.



Elisabella -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/2/2010 11:23:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Atropos19
But I'd still like to think that my intelligence, sense of humor, personality and whatnot count for *something.*  All too often I'm left feeling as though they don't.  :(


They do count for something. They count for friendship.

The difference between a close friendship and a romantic relationship is sexual attraction.

quote:

To put it another way, I accept, and don't really have a huge problem with, the fact that I have a strike or two against me, romantically speaking. But I don't like being dismissed out of hand, and I continue to think those who do so are doing me a disservice. Would it be any different, for instance, if I didn't talk to someone like you, because I *assumed* you'd be shallow and not interested in talking to someone like me?


Yes it would be different, because you would be making an uninformed assumption about the person's personality, rather than simply not being sexually attracted to them.



AquaticSub -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/2/2010 11:34:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Yes it would be different, because you would be making an uninformed assumption about the person's personality, rather than simply not being sexually attracted to them.



How would it be any less informed than a profile where the weight may be incorrect or not even listed? Which is the OP:

quote:



I've read several Dom profiles and when I see one where they are grossly overweight (or don't give their weight), I question their control over themselves and I question putting myself in their control.



Per the OP, we are not talking about people we have met in the street or know in any way. We are talking about a profile whose weight may or may not be correct and making assumptions about that person based on information that may not be correct or even there.

Which has been my issue with the thread itself, though I have gone off into some side conversations. Not health, not preference, not attraction. The assumptions based off little to no information.



Elisabella -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/2/2010 11:56:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Yes it would be different, because you would be making an uninformed assumption about the person's personality, rather than simply not being sexually attracted to them.



How would it be any less informed than a profile where the weight may be incorrect or not even listed? Which is the OP:



Oh I thought he was just talking about girls not wanting to date him because he's fat, not directly responding to the OP.



subkatslut -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/3/2010 12:10:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


Yes it would be different, because you would be making an uninformed assumption about the person's personality, rather than simply not being sexually attracted to them.



That was the premise that started this thread "uninformed assumptions". But what I think we eventually figured out was that it was merely a guise or excuse for simply not being attracted to obese individuals. Which is fine but don't slap a personality trait or character trait on someone based solely on a picture and weight or go ahead and do so but don't expect everyone else to agree with you because it's not always true.

I fail to see how not being attracted to someone qualifies as hypocritical. I'm a natural redhead. But I simply am not attracted to redheaded men. I fully realize some men don't like redheads either and I'm cool with that. To each his own and it is a lack of physical attraction on my part. Unlike the OP I'm not going to say well I won't reply to men who are redheads because redheads have tempers which means they have no self discipline and therefore can't be dominant and want other people to agree with her. When you apply it towards something not quite so inflammatory most people can see how ridiculous the assumption is.

Hence why I never understood why the thread was started because it really came down to someone wanting to state I hate obese men which would be akin to me starting one stating I hate red-headed men. What's the point except to be mean. Everyone has their preferences but most don't go around insulting everyone who doesn't meet them.



Elisabella -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/3/2010 12:20:32 AM)

I totally agree that if it's just a physical preference you should call it like it is.

IMO an obese person is lazy and undisciplined...when it comes to food. I don't think you can extrapolate that they're lazy and undisciplined in general. I mean we've all seen fat Senators and CEOs.

IMO not being attracted to someone isn't hypocritical, but if it's an obese person who isn't attracted to another obese person because of the weight, they would be hypocritical to call a thinner person "shallow" for not wanting to date them.



subkatslut -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/3/2010 12:29:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

they would be hypocritical to call a thinner person "shallow" for not wanting to date them.



Well I think it's kind of ridiculous for calling anyone shallow based on physical attraction because I don't know that we can control how our minds and bodies respond to other individuals. Although I do think if some people were to open their minds up a little more they would learn attraction can develop and come in ways we never imagined. We also know that relationships that go on for years, in the long run, don't find the physical as important in the end. But then again I think oftentimes we see the person we first met in our own minds even years down the road even if that person has changed physically so who knows.

I see shallow as someone who only looks at one thing. Like someone who doesn't care who it is as long as they are rich. Or even someone who doesn't care who it is as long as they have an awesome body. Why? Because you should have a little more depth then that in deciding who you want to be with because most people know one desirable quality doesn't mean squat when it comes to relationships. Or maybe meeting someone of your dreams...I mean your dream person in every single regard and dismissing them because of one single reason without giving it a chance. Not to say it will work out but to dismiss it that easily when we all know the reality is no one will ever find someone perfect. At the very least that borders on being shallow imo.






barelynangel -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/3/2010 4:10:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Just because people judge this concept doesn't mean they don't also judge other things and concepts about other people. Sorry the well other type people do a b c is not a valid argument. If we were considering in shape people in the discussion this thread would have a different topic. We are talking about obese men.

Angel


What?



Blah that wasn't very clear was it.   What i mean is simple -- This thread isn't about what Doms and Masters are judged on as general body type, its about what we think of when we see Doms and Masters who are fat and this can and has digressed into if you would accept or reject a potential based on his being obese.  

If we are talking about what doms and masters are judged on, that is a completely different topic from this one.

Trying to use the well in-shape men can lack control etc, isn't conducive to what this thread is about, the OP isn't asking how in-shape Doms and Masters are looked at. 

Many times in threads like this people want to imply that people accept every other type of man who isn't obese and that simply isn't true.  Or believe that in-shape men are in control over their lives etc.  NO ONE has indicated that at all.  However, with fat men, their obesity does in fact maen they may be judged and not get further with women because of same.  Because appearance does count, and if a Man is fat he has by being fat narrowed his own playing field because women will judge him based on being obese.  Just as slovenly people to me in photos have a much smaller playing field because women will reject them out right.  In-shape men have a little larger playing field because women have to get to know him more in order to assess his ability to control his life, take care of himself etc.  

For some people they may see this as being judged on your appearance as not fair, however, its a fact of life and well life isn't fair.

angel



Awareness -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/3/2010 4:30:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Atropos19
I'm sure there are people my own weight who are better looking than me overall.  I didn't mean to imply otherwise.  What I meant to say was... I have pursued, in my time, both people who I considered to be more or less "in my league," in terms of attractiveness, as well as people I felt were more attractive than me (and that can be about a lot more than just weight, because there are plenty of skinny folks I'm not attracted to as well).  When I talk to someone I know is "above my league," so to speak (and that's a shitty concept to begin with, I agree, but I'm not the one who came up with it), I go in knowing that the odds are probably against me.  But I'd still like to think that my intelligence, sense of humor, personality and whatnot count for *something.*  All too often I'm left feeling as though they don't.  :(
  The problem there is that you go in with the idea in your head that they're out of your league.  Women pick this up and because you believe it, they also believe it.

Look dude, the way this works is radically different to the way you think it does, and you're not going to get the answers you really need by asking in a sub forum.  Fact is, you can be 300 pounds and be a total pussy hound.  It's about social confidence and dominance and your internal belief structures.  You have a decent size journey ahead of you and the avenues you're investigating here are dead ends.

Your main, number one task at this point is to address your character.

Most significantly, your self-esteem - its source and extent.  Address the internals, the externals will follow.  Intelligence is nice and all, but it doesn't mean shit if you can't talk to a woman and make her wet.  And intelligence that isn't softened by humour and humanity really can leave women cold.

There are many avenues - to start with, I suggest you get hold of "Way of The Superior Man" by David Deida.  Exploring it will enable you to work out if you possess fundamentally masculine or feminine essence and your subsequent path will vary according to what you learn.  Either way, it'll provide a template for thinking about the importance of character as an intrinsic part of what not only attracts women but makes your interactions with them successful.

One thing - and I cannot stress this point enough.  Life - including women - is not going to simply provide you with what you desire.  You must exert your will to extract what you want from it.  If that includes remoulding who you are then that is exactly what you need to do.  It will not be easy.  It will not initially be pleasant.  And the process of looking at yourself in the mirror and seeing your physical, emotional and spiritual flaws and weaknesses clearly will not make you feel good about yourself.  But it is an absolutely essential part of the journey you need to undertake.

Oh - and just for reference - ignore everything Hollywood has ever taught you about women.  It's all bullshit.



barelynangel -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/3/2010 4:36:59 AM)

quote:

But I'd still like to think that my intelligence, sense of humor, personality and whatnot count for *something.*  All too often I'm left feeling as though they don't.  :(     ...  But I don't like being dismissed out of hand, and I continue to think those who do so are doing me a disservice.  ...


Okay Atropos19 (sorry i thought you were the OP), here's some straight forward talking --- For SOME people they will accept your being overweight and decide you are worth their time to investigate further if you have something to offer them.  But your physical appearance, whether you or anyone likes it MATTERS, not only in the romance department but in life.  You have found this out and you don't have to like it.   You will be judged on same and for some people you will be found wanting-- your weight, your haircut or maybe even the way you dress or look in your clothes.  Your intelligence etc won't matter in the least IF they decide not to enter the house so to speak.

You don't like to be dismissed out of hand -- well to say it bluntly -- sucks to be you.  IF you don't like being dismissed out of hand, find out why people are dismissing you and change it so you are more widely accepted - if that's what is important to you.  People don't HAVE to cater to you wanting THEIR attention because well gee, you want them to know you.  And people "are doing you a disservice?"  REALLY?   Who are you?  Why should people care they are doing YOU a disservice by not doing what YOU want them too?  Seriously, who are you to them that they should care you feel they are doing you a disservice by dismissing you and moving on to things they feel are worth their time? 

Does it hurt to acknowledge such a reality -- yeap.  Does it ping your pride that someone doesn't want to waste their time on getting to know you becuse you want them too?  i presume so.  People aren't on earth to cater to you or your insecurities.  They have their own lives and more than likely especially if they don't know you, you are simply a blip like you are part of the crowd on the street.  Is it their loss, maybe.   But that's life, you pass people on the street daily which may be your loss getting to know them.  Your comments here to me scream that you expect people to want to get to know you because well damnit you are a nice guy. 

You are 31 years old, you should know by now that the world of others do not revolve around you and your wants, but their world revolves around them and THEIR wants. 

Sorry to be so blunt, but in the end, IF you want to be accepted by more people, you have to decide if you want to become what they will accept.  If you don't then why shouldn't they reject you based on their preferences?  Why should they change their preferences to accomodate you and what you want?  You can't expect people to change to accomodate YOU.  Especially when you aren't willing to change to accomodate them.  Despite what you seem to believe, you don't matter to the vast majority of people in the world. 

So if you want to be noticed, then you have to become what the people you are seeking to be noticed by will notice. 

Good luck.  In the end, only you have control over what happens to you.  If you know people are rejecting you for and it is something you can change, then maybe it would be in your best interest for what you want, to make the change.  Its up to you, not them.

So the question to you becomes how do you make yourself into the man that gets the attention of the people you seek attention from? 

angel



SpaceSpank -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/3/2010 5:27:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

quote:

But I'd still like to think that my intelligence, sense of humor, personality and whatnot count for *something.*  All too often I'm left feeling as though they don't.  :(     ...  But I don't like being dismissed out of hand, and I continue to think those who do so are doing me a disservice.  ...



So if you want to be noticed, then you have to become what the people you are seeking to be noticed by will notice. 




I disagree with that strongly. While that may work to an extent, it makes you nothing more than a puppet for those around you. It's certainly valid, and if you do not want to put the time in to actually be your own person, then go right ahead.
But for me, if you want to be happy with yourself, I feel people should work to make themselves someone worth noticing, not pander to what everyone around you expects.

Be your own person, figure out how and what you want to be noticed for, and then excel at it. If you want to be noticed for your intelligence then do something to make that really stand out. Be it a job, a degree, a specialty in something, whatever. If it's your humor, do the same. Attend some open mic nights and watch some comedians, then try it yourself and get booed off the stage a few times before you come back with a good routine.
If it's physical, then hit the gym, slim down and shape up and go that route. Hell, it could be almost anything, you just need find that something and run with it and be aware that it may take time, effort, and failure to actually get somewhere with it.

Be yourself, but be the best yourself you can be, don't be what you think everyone and their aunt Petunia wants you to be.



barelynangel -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/3/2010 5:45:06 AM)

Spacespank, go back and read what i said, because the person is whining about how people are doing HIM a disservice etc etc  and demanding that people CHANGE to accomodate his wanting their attention.

READ THE  POST before you take ONE sentence out of context of the whole (i.e., the 7 paragraphs before should explain where i am coming from).  The problem with that is you wouldn't be running in to disagree with my posts then because you would see the whole post and not just what you want to see.

angel



SpaceSpank -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/3/2010 6:20:03 AM)

How am I taking it out of context when you left it in there on it's own with nothing preceding or following it? You separated it out for emphasis and made no qualifications about how you should only do it if you can't be your own person.

Everything before it was talking about him whining and how the world revolves around everyone but him. Which I agree with,  I took the one sentence out because I did not disagree with your post, only that part of it... which is why I removed everything EXCEPT that and said I disagreed with that statement, not the entire post.

If you want that statement to read differently then word it differently, if you didn't want it taken on its own merit then don't separate it from everything else in your post for extra emphasis.
I did not "read what I want to see" I read what you wrote exactly as you emphasized it. As you put it your advice to him was to be what everyone around him wants him to be, not be what he wants for himself. Maybe you meant differently, but that has nothing to do with what you actually wrote.



*edit to stay on topic*

I think the distinction being made about what anyone feels is their preference vs making a general statement about a demographic is important.

What you do or do not find attractive is valid for you, and no one needs to agree with it.




sunshinemiss -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/3/2010 7:54:52 AM)


Pretty women wonder where my secret lies.
I'm not cute or built to suit a fashion model's size
But when I start to tell them,
They think I'm telling lies.
I say,
It's in the reach of my arms
The span of my hips,
The stride of my step,
The curl of my lips.
I'm a woman
Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.

I walk into a room
Just as cool as you please,
And to a man,
The fellows stand or
Fall down on their knees.
Then they swarm around me,
A hive of honey bees.
I say,
It's the fire in my eyes,
And the flash of my teeth,
The swing in my waist,
And the joy in my feet.
I'm a woman
Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.

Men themselves have wondered
What they see in me.
They try so much
But they can't touch
My inner mystery.
When I try to show them
They say they still can't see.
I say,
It's in the arch of my back,
The sun of my smile,
The ride of my breasts,
The grace of my style.

I'm a woman Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.

Now you understand
Just why my head's not bowed.
I don't shout or jump about
Or have to talk real loud.
When you see me passing
It ought to make you proud.
I say,
It's in the click of my heels,
The bend of my hair,
the palm of my hand,
The need of my care,
'Cause I'm a woman Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.

Maya Angelou



barelynangel -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/3/2010 8:27:07 AM)

The whole post is within context. Again go back and read the post. I say that line a couple different ways in the whole post all with qualifiers. And those qualifiers are pretty much IF he wants to be accepted and THAT is what is a priority to him. He will have to change to become what the people he wants attention and acceptance from want. Not sit here and demand they give him attention and acceptance simply because he wants it. Again the qualifiers are threw out the whole post. So taking the last line as you have and saying what you have puts a very different spin on what I have said. Don't quote me unless you do so in context that will alleviate your taking things out of context. As intelligent as you believe you are. You should be able to say what you have to say without taking one line from the context of a whole post.

Angel



jujubeeMB -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/3/2010 8:35:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Atropos19
When I talk to someone I know is "above my league," so to speak (and that's a shitty concept to begin with, I agree, but I'm not the one who came up with it), I go in knowing that the odds are probably against me.  But I'd still like to think that my intelligence, sense of humor, personality and whatnot count for *something.*  All too often I'm left feeling as though they don't.  :(


Awareness said it brilliantly, and so did angel. All I'll add is to second that no, your intelligence, sense of humor and personality do not count for something if the physical attraction isn't there. And to a lot of people (you're going to have to accept this) being overweight is not attractive. Someone used the example of being a redhead and not being interested in redheads. The difference with obesity, as I was saying before, is that it's an issue of health. We're an overindulgent, lazy, give-me-now country, and so we have a nation of overweight people that - through medical complications - are slowly driving the national debt into astronomical figures. When I meet someone who is overweight and lazy and defiant about their right to be (not someone who is overweight due to chronic illness or debilitating physical condition), I think of them in the same way I think of smokers: fine, go ahead and kill yourself, but I'm not participating.

It's not a physical appearance thing to me. Like I said before, I tend to like big guys. But only if they're physically active and eating right. And the thing is, nine times out of ten, those who are overweight aren't eating right or exercising, and that's what I find unattractive - the unwillingness to take action to be a healthy person in a country where healthcare funds are plummeting. We can't afford to be self-indulgent anymore. I have a chronic intestinal disease myself and could cost the system hundreds of thousands of dollars, but instead of saying "woe is me" and eating and drinking whatever I want, I take extremely good care of myself and cost the system nothing. If I can live without sugar, dairy, chocolate, red meat, corn syrup, caffeine and most alcohol, so can anyone. And don't tell me it's because I don't have problems - I have had enough trauma in my life to "justify" being an overweight drunk, but it's significantly more healing to be healthy.

I realize this is a sensitive issue for everyone because a lot of people on the boards are at least a little overweight. But in the same way I'd call it out if everyone was smoking like a chimney, I'm afraid I have to call it out when people insist they have a right to eat badly and not exercise. I didn't say I'm calling out overweight people, I said I'm calling out those who eat badly and don't exercise. If you want to slowly kill yourself and drain the system of our healthcare funds it's your business, of course, but don't expect other people to find that selfish laziness attractive.

One of the points I was trying to raise by bringing up that I think it's hypocritical of those who are overweight to specifically not pursue other overweight people is that I think it's not about something as simple as "redheads" or "people who like baseball." I think they're loathe to admit it, but those who won't date overweight people when they themselves are overweight are hoping - as Atropos put it himself - to get someone "out of their league." They think that their league kind of sucks, and why would they want to remain in it? It's not about physical attraction, it's about high school.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Atropos19
But I don't like being dismissed out of hand, and I continue to think those who do so are doing me a disservice.  Would it be any different, for instance, if I didn't talk to someone like you, because I *assumed* you'd be shallow and not interested in talking to someone like me?


Angel said it better than I could. You don't get to expect anyone to change their wants/desires to accommodate your insecurities. Pursue people who are attracted to you. If you aren't attracted to any of the people that are attracted to you, change yourself. That's the only person you have any control over.



Elisabella -> RE: Weight and Master/Dom control (12/3/2010 8:45:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SpaceSpank
Be yourself, but be the best yourself you can be, don't be what you think everyone and their aunt Petunia wants you to be.


Good advice, so long as he's not trying to seduce Aunt Petunia.

I'm always confused by this 'be yourself' thing, as if there's some sort of inherent 'self' that isn't dependent on the life choices we make.

IMO 'be what you want to be' is better advice, if what a person wants to be is thin and smooth with women, and they're actually fat and awkward with women, what good is 'be yourself' to them? Better to create yourself than just passively be.



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