RE: What do you get out of having a punishment dynamic

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Focus50 -> RE: What do you get out of having a punishment dynamic (12/6/2010 1:35:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance Her angering you in your own words is her "punishing you" there for you feel the need to exact revenge Again in your own words for her angering you and you feeling the need to walk away....so you put her in the corner for your inability to control your anger... Your doing it not because she deserves punishment but because you feel the need to punish both yourself and her because shes made you angry... Physical punishment isnt the only form of punishment in the world. What does she learn by being put in the corner other then shes made you angry? what does she learn by being placed in that spot? Other then you put people in the corner when your angry? There are several forms of punishment that can bring about desired results in behavior modification, however when punishment is inflicted it needs to teach as well as be a deterrent, your situation is not offering either other then you feeling the need to Punish her as well because shes made you angry. Wither or not I prefer or will engage in a punishment dynamic isnt me projecting, its me using your own words you ask you a question. One youve chosen to evade by making it about physical violence and that being the only way to express lack of control when it comes to expressing anger. In my punishment dynamic i was punished both verbally and physically but mostly physically, however your punishment does not express physical punishment at all only.... humiliation for your percieved notion of her punishing you by making you angry... You could very easily leave her where she stands or sits while you cool down. You feel the need in your lack of control to place her in a humilating situation (corner time stops being effective at what age 5) While you cool down.... Oh for cryin' out loud...! So if the girl deliberately misbehaves (not her fault according to you), the only recourse a dom has is....? Stamp feet? Walk off in a huff? Good ol sulk? Twiddle thumbs? Re-invent the wheel? Most seem to pull out the whips and canes - them you don't have an issue with...! I'm done; you win.... Focus.

SpiritedRadiance -> RE: What do you get out of having a punishment dynamic (12/6/2010 1:40:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 Oh for cryin' out loud...! So if the girl deliberately misbehaves (not her fault according to you), the only recourse a dom has is....? Stamp feet? Walk off in a huff? Good ol sulk? Twiddle thumbs? Re-invent the wheel? Most seem to pull out the whips and canes - them you don't have an issue with...! I'm done; you win.... Focus. You never spoke of misbehavior, you only said in your own words when your girl makes you angry....which doesnt happen often. I have to ask what about one misbehavior over another causes you to become angry? I dont have issue with anyone who chooses to be in a punishment dynamic. I cannot find a single instance where it would be healthy for me. I do however have issue with someone saying that they feel the need to punish ONLY because the submissive has made them angry and they are now forced to cool down.

ranja -> RE: What do you get out of having a punishment dynamic (12/6/2010 2:21:38 AM)
Focus seems much like my man... some men a woman can walk over, others women can not... my man is not to be walked over, i don't think Focus is either. My man punishes me when i am out of line... when i annoy Him (too much) or when i am disrespectful. All things that indeed would make Him angry... and like Focus, my man does not like it when i make Him angry. If He would not use the opportunity to put me right i would lose respect for Him, get even more out of line or continue to annoy Him (sometimes i am not aware of my own behaviour especially when pmt hits)... My man is not a man who likes to talk too much about things and if He would not put things right we both end up loosing control, it screws up the mood entirely, He would withdraw and be grumpy and mad and i would bash my head agains a brick wall and get sick of my own motor mouth. I am not a brat and He is not a bully, but His job to punish me when i need it makes the atmosphere in our house good. Our dynamic did not start off like this, but after 20 years of marriage and some really bad times we have pulled our socks up and decided to treat eachother better/ as we need to be treated... punishment suits us both very well and so is a win win situation (last line specially for Des)

CaringandReal -> RE: What do you get out of having a punishment dynamic (12/6/2010 5:25:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub quote: ORIGINAL: CaringandReal What about a punishment dynamic bothers you or scares you the most? Is it the physical pain? The (possible) anger of the dominant? The humiliation of being treated like a child rather than as an adult? The anger is the worst part for me to take. I got lots of this in childhood, and so anger (at least male anger) is a little phobic for me. :( i realized as i was typing my response to porcelaine that the reason that i am so personally opposed to a punishment dynamic, is because of the physical abuse that i lived with as a child which was called punishment, when i was not in a place where i had control over what was going to happen. For many years, i refused to indentify as a slave, even though that is how i act, because of my fear of someone who would want a punishment dynamic. If i was "just" a submissive and not their slave, i could say no, no physical punishment dynamic is allowed, talk to me like an adult and i will correct whatever action that i made that was displeasing. That felt safe, i could do that. More and more as i look inwardly, i realize that i am really a slave that that is what i truly desire to be, i just keep stumbling over certaini issues. i now realize that when i ever find the Dominant/Master that is for me, that i can explain the situation and the fear, now that i see the root of it and then leave it in his hands to do what he thinks is best given what is inside me. heartfelt Thank you for the candid reply. It makes perfect sense, and I can certainly relate to a lot of it, which is why I mentioned the male anger. A sensitivity to that latter emotion does not emerge from out of nowhere, typically. :( I have met dominants who are very gentle, compassionate, and understanding when it comes to sensitive areas like this but who, at the same time, are unquestionably dominant and extremely and thrillingly controlling. My former master was like this. He conducted me through a lot of dark valleys. I know there are others out there who are like that, too, and that sort might be a good person for someone like you to encounter. This doesn't happen to everyone (so much depends on the specifics that shaped you), but sometimes you can reach a point where you start to deeply eroticize the things that terrify/horrify you most. At that point, instead of being all bad, the punishment experience might become mixed, and thus easier to sustain without damage.

CaringandReal -> RE: What do you get out of having a punishment dynamic (12/6/2010 5:34:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP I just read a post on another site where the sub was punished for anticipatory service when the dom had never told her not to do it. That's wrong. If he couldn't be bothered to tell her never to make a suggestion or try to be helpful, that's his fault when she didn't know it. He just punished her, he never explained what she should do in the future. Agrees strongly. Once in a while you (generic you) will observe or even get involved in a dynamic that involves unexpected punishment just for the "hell" of it :), but if you aren't in that specific sort of relationship, then it strikes me as awfully unfair to expect the submissive to read the dominant's mind on matters like this.

KnightofMists -> RE: What do you get out of having a punishment dynamic (12/6/2010 6:24:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine In the past the idea of punishment was very challenging for me to wrap my mind around. However, accountability is a part of life and persons in a position of authority must address infractions when they occur. You see this is all walks of life and the ramifications aren't always negative, but serve as reinforcement of the standard with the requisite realignment (thought, action, skill, etc.) as determined by the controlling party. Looking at it from a practical perspective and realizing that I had no problem accepting this from other persons when appropriate led me to readdress my reluctance in my personal relationships. The result was very positive and it revolutionized my mindset on the subject as a whole. For me it is merely a matter of trusting in His ability to function as Keeper and accepting that His manner of enforcement will rarely coincide with what I would want or wish for at a given moment. However, the results of the decisions made will be in my best interest and that reality is the foundation that I stand upon. If I begin to second guess or attempt to dictate what's permissible I'm merely usurping His authority and trying to influence the outcome based on what I believe is best or most comfortable. Actions of this nature deviate from the path He's setting and institute maverick like thinking that is independent and in opposition to His will. One of the hallmarks of maturity is owning our actions and accepting responsibility for the things we say and do. The aftermath may be unpleasant but I trust the discomfort has a greater goal and remain fixated on that truth as opposed to the selfish one that seeks to avoid the pain in all its manifestations. As such, yes, I want Him to do what He believes is most suitable to restore order and bring my whole self into its rightful place. I'm willing to subject myself to this for one reason alone. I trust Him and sincerely believe that He is capable of instituting the command that His position entails. There's also a strange catharsis about it all. I see correction as a demonstration of love. Oftentimes people are quick to tell us what we want to hear but rarely say what is best. Knowing He will undertake actions that could be less than enjoyable for our collective benefit gives me peace and strengthens my tether to Him. Namaste, ~porcelaine As a I read porcelaine's post... I see an acceptance that punishment could be a course of action that one uses to holding one responsible and that accepting that consequence is the acceptance of the responsibility to those consequences. but... it should be noted.. what exactly is punishment in the first place. It should be clear that punshiment is a negative consequence imposed by another that is outside of the results of behavior that warranted the punishment in the first place. Behavior A results in Consequences B that results in Punishment C. To often people will wrap Consequnces B and Punishment C as the "Consequences" to Behavior A. Consequences and punishment are distinctily different and seperate. Ironically, within a punishment dynamic the tying of these two things as one to a behavior is what will make punishment more effective in avoiding these negative behaviors. But more effective doesn't mean the most effective. secondly... holding one accountable doesn't denote serving punishment. My career and my personal life is about holding people accountable. In my work life, punishment is a rare action taken and in my personal life it is not a choice I make. I take corrective action to understand what caused the behavior in the first place and provide the neccessary actions to eliminate the root issue that caused the behavior. Lastly, for some there does seem to be a need for punishement. But punishment is not actually tied to changing the behavior but more part of a reconcilations process within the dynamic. I have found that for the more successful relationships that use a punishment dynamic that this aspect is there not for being effective to change the behavior but to get that 'strange cartharsis' that porcelaine's post referred to. Ironically, I think few realize that it's there because this value it brings over making a deterrent for negative behaviors on why it exists in the relationship. As I see most go into a corrective analysis approach afterwards that change the behavior. Most people do these things intuitively rather than done so in a reasoned manner.

Nineveh -> RE: What do you get out of having a punishment dynamic (12/6/2010 10:20:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ranja Focus seems much like my man... some men a woman can walk over, others women can not... my man is not to be walked over, i don't think Focus is either. My man punishes me when i am out of line... when i annoy Him (too much) or when i am disrespectful. All things that indeed would make Him angry... and like Focus, my man does not like it when i make Him angry. If He would not use the opportunity to put me right i would lose respect for Him, get even more out of line or continue to annoy Him (sometimes i am not aware of my own behaviour especially when pmt hits)... My man is not a man who likes to talk too much about things and if He would not put things right we both end up loosing control, it screws up the mood entirely, He would withdraw and be grumpy and mad and i would bash my head agains a brick wall and get sick of my own motor mouth. I am not a brat and He is not a bully, but His job to punish me when i need it makes the atmosphere in our house good. Our dynamic did not start off like this, but after 20 years of marriage and some really bad times we have pulled our socks up and decided to treat eachother better/ as we need to be treated... punishment suits us both very well and so is a win win situation (last line specially for Des) I can't imagine instituting a punishment dynamic after 20 years of marriage. Congratulations to you for managing it, it seems like a drastic change in the dynamic that would end up with me being divorced.

Focus50 -> RE: What do you get out of having a punishment dynamic (12/6/2010 10:20:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance You never spoke of misbehavior, you only said in your own words when your girl makes you angry....which doesnt happen often. I have to ask what about one misbehavior over another causes you to become angry? I dont have issue with anyone who chooses to be in a punishment dynamic. I cannot find a single instance where it would be healthy for me. I do however have issue with someone saying that they feel the need to punish ONLY because the submissive has made them angry and they are now forced to cool down. Sleep..., wonderful sleep.... Now refreshed and in the interests of being a sport, I'll take one more crack at this. Personally, I think I'm flogging a dead horse here; that you're trying waaaaay too hard to be difficult and contrary because of your own unresolved issues rather than actually contributing anything positive to the discussion. Actions bring consequences. The brick wall I'm pushing against is that you choose to interpret consequences as revenge, thus rendering a dom as vengeful for indulging as opposed to a hapless eunoch and mere relationship functionary for not. I find it difficult to believe any submissive could respect either in a Dominant. I did not speak of misbehaviour because that is not the topic. The girl misbehaves, I correct it through some form of discipline - be it the "stare" of disapproval, a certain tone or something that stings etc. Such things do not make me angry; indeed I don't mind the opportunity to make her squirm a little when she's out of line - UP TO A POINT (cues "anger"). And here, you've got me somewhat flummoxed: SpiritedRadiance: "I do however have issue with someone saying that they feel the need to punish ONLY because the submissive has made them angry and they are now forced to cool down." I'd punish her when has NOT made me angry becauseeeee...? At least it wouldn't be revenge (I s'pose) - that makes it ok? And if I am angry, you have an issue with me cooling back down becauseeeee...? About the only thing that makes sense in the entire statement is the part where you have an issue...! Focus.

NuevaVida -> RE: What do you get out of having a punishment dynamic (12/6/2010 11:07:49 AM)
A punishment dynamic came with the relationship I entered. The only adjustment I can think of is the benevolence in his punishments, in comparison to my past experience. I am rarely punished, and when I am it is part of an overall process of talking, uncovering what occurred and why, more talking, discovering prevention of a repeat, love, more talking, reassurance, understanding, and closure. It's simply part of an overall resolution process for us. I've never asked why he prefers a punishment dynamic - I've never felt a need to ask. The resolution process just flows naturally, and the very few times we've embarked on it, punishment has been part of it. I can't say I've ever made him angry, so anger hasn't been part of it. I always find it interesting, what people have to say about punishment dynamics. Understandably, some function better in a non punishment dynamic and some function better in a punishment dynamic. Why disparage the other? There's a superior attitude by some folks who do not thrive in a punishment dynamic that I just don't get. In any case, re: the follow up question about fear, I do not fear his punishment. I don't like when I've disappointed him, and I'd feel that way whether or not he punished me. His punishments are nothing I need to fear. I don't fear any part of our relationship.

daddysprop247 -> RE: What do you get out of having a punishment dynamic (12/6/2010 12:26:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida A punishment dynamic came with the relationship I entered. The only adjustment I can think of is the benevolence in his punishments, in comparison to my past experience. I am rarely punished, and when I am it is part of an overall process of talking, uncovering what occurred and why, more talking, discovering prevention of a repeat, love, more talking, reassurance, understanding, and closure. It's simply part of an overall resolution process for us. ... I always find it interesting, what people have to say about punishment dynamics. Understandably, some function better in a non punishment dynamic and some function better in a punishment dynamic. Why disparage the other? There's a superior attitude by some folks who do not thrive in a punishment dynamic that I just don't get. this. i don't get the wild assumptions made about punishment dynamics so many make...that a punishment is implemented in lieu of adult discussion and problem-solving, for instance. nor do i get the way so many seem to look down upon punishment dynamics. different relationship models work best for different individuals, none is superior to any other. to answer the OP...what do i get out of it? i get the confirmation of his care and concern over me, my behavior and growth, of his active role in those areas. i get the reminder that i can always do better, that i can achieve more than i ever believed possible. i get closure, which is absolutely necessary and would be impossible for me otherwise. and while this last may not be typical of relationships with punishment dynamics, for us fear is an important element as well. it's important that i fear my Master just enough to keep me on my toes and mindful of the fact that he is Lord and Master of my universe. so i fear his retribution, and this fear helps keep me worshipful and reverential.

ownedbyPF -> RE: What do you get out of having a punishment dynamic (12/6/2010 12:45:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida A punishment dynamic came with the relationship I entered. The only adjustment I can think of is the benevolence in his punishments, in comparison to my past experience. I am rarely punished, and when I am it is part of an overall process of talking, uncovering what occurred and why, more talking, discovering prevention of a repeat, love, more talking, reassurance, understanding, and closure. It's simply part of an overall resolution process for us. ... I always find it interesting, what people have to say about punishment dynamics. Understandably, some function better in a non punishment dynamic and some function better in a punishment dynamic. Why disparage the other? There's a superior attitude by some folks who do not thrive in a punishment dynamic that I just don't get. this. i don't get the wild assumptions made about punishment dynamics so many make...that a punishment is implemented in lieu of adult discussion and problem-solving, for instance. nor do i get the way so many seem to look down upon punishment dynamics. different relationship models work best for different individuals, none is superior to any other. to answer the OP...what do i get out of it? i get the confirmation of his care and concern over me, my behavior and growth, of his active role in those areas. i get the reminder that i can always do better, that i can achieve more than i ever believed possible. i get closure, which is absolutely necessary and would be impossible for me otherwise. and while this last may not be typical of relationships with punishment dynamics, for us fear is an important element as well. it's important that i fear my Master just enough to keep me on my toes and mindful of the fact that he is Lord and Master of my universe. so i fear his retribution, and this fear helps keep me worshipful and reverential. I fully admit that I frequently do not post to threads because Daddysprop has already answerred the same way I would and not only that, but does so with much more articulation and eloquence than I would ever manage to muster! I need to be punished, I need the closure, and yes, I need to fear him just enough to keep me where I need to be. We always talk about it, just because he punishes me doesn't mean we don't also converse. I also admit, a conversation about how I screwed up and disappointed him and recognizing why it occurred, just isn't enough to solidify it into memory for me. The cane does. ~s

NuevaVida -> RE: What do you get out of having a punishment dynamic (12/6/2010 1:06:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 i don't get the wild assumptions made about punishment dynamics so many make...that a punishment is implemented in lieu of adult discussion and problem-solving, for instance. nor do i get the way so many seem to look down upon punishment dynamics. different relationship models work best for different individuals, none is superior to any other. Every time I find myself having a strong reaction to something someone else says or posts, I have to look inward and understand why. Usually it's something I'm afraid of, or there's an emotional button being pushed, that has pained me in the past. I can only assume the strong responses are fear or pain driven. I have nothing else to go on. But some of the conclusions made or implied are a bit off the mark.

lally2 -> RE: What do you get out of having a punishment dynamic (12/6/2010 1:42:16 PM)
i dont get this whole 'it shows he cares' stuff. of course they care, if youre in a relationship and share enough thats good and great and happy, where in there should it suggest otherwise, why, im curious do people need that extra endorsement. ive been in relationships where punishment was in the background as a possible outcome, but i would never have called it a punishment dynamic, i wasnt ruled by the fear of punishment, that has never been and i hope never will be the sole reason i strive to be accountable as a submissive. i dont do a thing to avoid punishment, anymore than i would do a thing to earn a punishment. punishment, for me anyway, is something thats in a box, up there on the shelf and if it really has to be pulled out and used then theres a fine good reason for it and i accept it, like i accept all other aspects of the relationship im in. so to youre question OP i have never got anything out of punishment other than some catharsis, relief its over and a clean slate to move on from with no going over old ground. the thing was dealt with, i paid the price, done and dusted.

NuevaVida -> RE: What do you get out of having a punishment dynamic (12/6/2010 1:52:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 i dont get this whole 'it shows he cares' stuff. of course they care, if youre in a relationship and share enough thats good and great and happy, where in there should it suggest otherwise, why, im curious do people need that extra endorsement. I think of the "love languages" when I see this. Various things confirm care/love to people - for some it's words ("I love you"), for some it's actions, for some it's gifts, or time, etc. I knew someone who grew up in a household where nobody really cared if she screwed up or not. So to her, for a master or dominant to correct, even punish her for a screw up, communicated to her that he cared enough to pay attention and correct the problem.

daddysprop247 -> RE: What do you get out of having a punishment dynamic (12/6/2010 2:14:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 i dont get this whole 'it shows he cares' stuff. of course they care, if youre in a relationship and share enough thats good and great and happy, where in there should it suggest otherwise, why, im curious do people need that extra endorsement. I think of the "love languages" when I see this. Various things confirm care/love to people - for some it's words ("I love you"), for some it's actions, for some it's gifts, or time, etc. I knew someone who grew up in a household where nobody really cared if she screwed up or not. So to her, for a master or dominant to correct, even punish her for a screw up, communicated to her that he cared enough to pay attention and correct the problem. a storm must be a'comin'...i'm agreeing with you twice in one day! [:D] (j/k of course) while i didn't grow up in a household like the person you mention, the idea of my mistakes going unnoticed or even treated as no big whoop definitely makes me feel bad. it would be like my actions are not even worthy of my mate's attention, or that he didn't really care whether i improved/grew or not.

NuevaVida -> RE: What do you get out of having a punishment dynamic (12/6/2010 2:22:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 a storm must be a'comin'...i'm agreeing with you twice in one day! [:D] (j/k of course) LOL hold onto your hat! [8D] quote: while i didn't grow up in a household like the person you mention, the idea of my mistakes going unnoticed or even treated as no big whoop definitely makes me feel bad. it would be like my actions are not even worthy of my mate's attention, or that he didn't really care whether i improved/grew or not. I can understand this, but I think this view (treated as no big whoop) is an extreme opposite, too. For example, I might not get punished very much for things, but you can bet every issue (for lack of a better word) is examined and talked about. My goofs do get his attention whether or not he applies a punishment to them. But everyone is unique and affected differently by stuff. [;)]

lally2 -> RE: What do you get out of having a punishment dynamic (12/6/2010 2:47:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 i dont get this whole 'it shows he cares' stuff. of course they care, if youre in a relationship and share enough thats good and great and happy, where in there should it suggest otherwise, why, im curious do people need that extra endorsement. I think of the "love languages" when I see this. Various things confirm care/love to people - for some it's words ("I love you"), for some it's actions, for some it's gifts, or time, etc. I knew someone who grew up in a household where nobody really cared if she screwed up or not. So to her, for a master or dominant to correct, even punish her for a screw up, communicated to her that he cared enough to pay attention and correct the problem. i suppose i come from a totally different place with that. i never felt loved as a kid, but i was regularly spanked and i spent most of my younger years afraid of my father and i used to run and hide when he got home. so to me a spanking didnt mean they cared particularly, it was just their way of keeping us under control. the least amount of parenting skills required, the maximum effect. i understand about barriers and parameters, i understand that people need them to be reinforced and if a Dominant cant be bothered to reinforce those parameters and barriers then the thing will unravel. been there done that. repurcussions and consistancy are the key in every Ds or Ms relationship. no bigger message going out that a D cant be arsed is when the sub can do as they please and theres no come back. i agree. caring about a relationship enough to keep everything on the straight and narrow is the least that anyone can hope for. caring enough to punish? - well ok, i can see perfectly well how that could work. but im reminded of a short kink video of someone being spanked, actually, theyre all a bit that way inclined. the spanker telling the spankee that basically its because they care that theyre spanking them. the kink vids are rife with that story line. so is that punishment, im asking or fulfilling a need. if its fulfilling a need then the 'what do you get out of having a punishment' asked by the OP who is fearful of them, is being given a slightly left from center response from people who have a need. just me being my usual arseways self when it comes to the punishment topic -

daddysprop247 -> RE: What do you get out of having a punishment dynamic (12/6/2010 2:55:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 caring about a relationship enough to keep everything on the straight and narrow is the least that anyone can hope for. caring enough to punish? - well ok, i can see perfectly well how that could work. but im reminded of a short kink video of someone being spanked, actually, theyre all a bit that way inclined. the spanker telling the spankee that basically its because they care that theyre spanking them. the kink vids are rife with that story line. so is that punishment, im asking or fulfilling a need. if its fulfilling a need then the 'what do you get out of having a punishment' asked by the OP who is fearful of them, is being given a slightly left from center response from people who have a need. just me being my usual arseways self when it comes to the punishment topic - for me, the need is the punishment itself and what that represents in our relationship, not for some "naughty girl" spanking. i need the attention, the validation, the guidance and the closure which punishment brings. however at the same time, it is always my hope that my conduct is such that no punishment is ever merited. that is the place i strive for in this journey.

daddysprop247 -> RE: What do you get out of having a punishment dynamic (12/6/2010 3:00:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida I can understand this, but I think this view (treated as no big whoop) is an extreme opposite, too. For example, I might not get punished very much for things, but you can bet every issue (for lack of a better word) is examined and talked about. My goofs do get his attention whether or not he applies a punishment to them. But everyone is unique and affected differently by stuff. [;)] yes that's the key, we're all unique. for me personally, being punished for a mistake in addition to having it pointed out, discussed, and self-disciplinary methods being taught so that it does not happen again in the future just has a far greater impact than all of the above with no punishment. just the way i'm wired, i suppose...i need the "shaking up" which comes with a punishment.

littlewonder -> RE: What do you get out of having a punishment dynamic (12/6/2010 3:26:05 PM)
quote: (corner time stops being effective at what age 5) huh....I'm 39 and it's still effective on me. and I don't even like ageplay. Go figure.

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