Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long? Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persist... - 12/5/2010 11:39:24 AM   
Jaybeee


Posts: 532
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline 		I have several Jewish friends, whom I' ve asked the same question. Their replies ranged from simple "Dunno"'s to "As long as we stay distinct, we will be hated".

Perhaps the most interesting theory I heard was from older chap who said, "We prize success and achievement. As long as we are unsuccessful in hiding those traits, we will be resented for them". Though I must say, they sometimes seem victims of their own success, as the press doesn't allow you to disguise your heritage very long.

I myself am a Christian but have many good Jewish friends, and I concluded that it is simply something of a far right-wing fetish, to target them, instead of more obvious groups, ie non-whites. Almost as if it were somewhat perversely chic in certain circles to share an ethos with (arguably) history's most hated man - Hitler.

_____________________________

Mastery in motion since 2005

Women of the world, submit!
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 11:49:41 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I have always been taught that if you don't understand ask, but I am finding asking questions about this subject always ends up in disharmony, why, is a question I seek an answer to also, but am kind of scared to ask these days, which is no good, because failure to understand leads to ignorance.

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 12/5/2010 11:50:51 AM >

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to Jaybeee)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 11:55:35 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		FR

What is anti-semitism? What is the common denominator? I will tell you what the common denominator is: populations that have for generations evolved in penis-mutilated conditions. Conversely, populations that have for generations evolved in non-penis-mutilated conditions, never experience anti-semitism. Q.E.D.

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 12:02:48 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Jaybeee, I like most of the other forum regulars, am from the US.  You're from Britain, so I imagine that your everyday experiences may be different.

I think that there are several distinct periods of anti-Semitism.

1. Spanish Inquisition.  My take is that this a simple case of theft.  Jews had resources, and the Church wanted them.  The Jews had a choice between getting killed and the Church got their money then, or convert and tithe it over time.

2. Middle Ages.  Jews were prohibited from holding land in some if not all European countries.  So they, especially since they pushed literacy at a time when it was not that common, went into the trades in a big way.  In other words, they were forced to become the capitalists of that age.  Naturally, they accrued wealth, and it may have been especially noticeable since they could not buy property with it.

3. 1900s.  I get the feeling that anti-Semitism then was pretty common. For example, I heard that Einstein's breakthrough Theory of Relativity did not snag him a Nobel because an anti-Semite on the Nobel committee blocked him - they had to wait till the bigot died, then gave him a Nobel on a comparatively minor discovery, the photoelectric effect.

Nazi Germany accomplished two things with its anti-Semitism: they got to unify a badly off country with a common enemy, and they got to expropriate the Jews' assets.

The Arab anti-Israel sentiment I do not consider anti-Semitism because it is aimed at the Jewish state itself rather than all Jews.  I think of it as mostly envy from a group of failed states that squander their petrodollars on consumer luxuries for the upper class rather than building an infrastructure or serious industrial capacity.  It's temptiong to think of this as a bunch of weak states being bullied by a strong one, until you realize that Israel has consistently developed its workforce and leads the world in patents per capita, while its enemies have deliberately chosen to not compete.

I suppose that my theory is that attacking a class of people with resources has the advantage that you might get to expropriate them...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Conversely, populations that have for generations evolved in non-penis-mutilated conditions, never experience anti-semitism. Q.E.D.


I don't think that Europeans ever adopted circumcision in a big way, and that is where most anti-Semitism seems to emanate...


< Message edited by DarkSteven -- 12/5/2010 12:06:05 PM >

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Jaybeee)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 12:50:01 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee

"We prize success and achievement. As long as we are unsuccessful in hiding those traits, we will be resented for them".



That's a strange comment...didn't Hitler say something similar: "they have all the money".

Seems your man is stereotyping his own people (assuming there is such a thing)....when of course surely....there are members of the Jewish community who like to sit around and watch shite television like any other group?




_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Jaybeee)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 1:08:12 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Conversely, populations that have for generations evolved in non-penis-mutilated conditions, never experience anti-semitism. Q.E.D.

I don't think that Europeans ever adopted circumcision in a big way, and that is where most anti-Semitism seems to emanate...

I am sorry, DS, but that is ostrich behavior. It is denial of an unacceptable truth. The common denominator are not populations that evolved for several generations under non-mutilated penis conditions, for those were all different populations: Egyptians, Hurrites, Hittites, Babylonians, Assyrians, Greeks, Romans, etcetera. The common denominator are those populations that evolved for multiple generations under mutilated penis conditions.

Europe hasn't got anything to do with it. Besides, USA bankers financed the Third Reich, and lots of those bankers were Jews - and to me it is obvious that those bankers were aware of the plans to commit and willing to enable the genocide.

For another example, there is a lot of antisemitism by Israel against the penis-mutilated population of the Palestinians.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 1:25:20 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

FR

What is anti-semitism? What is the common denominator? I will tell you what the common denominator is: populations that have for generations evolved in penis-mutilated conditions. Conversely, populations that have for generations evolved in non-penis-mutilated conditions, never experience anti-semitism. Q.E.D.


Let me ask you something Rule, if discrimination is based on circumcision then how does one tell who to discriminate against?

Are there penis checkpoints in your country?

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 1:45:43 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Europe hasn't got anything to do with it. Besides, USA bankers financed the Third Reich, and lots of those bankers were Jews - and to me it is obvious that those bankers were aware of the plans to commit and willing to enable the genocide.

Given that the holocaust happened in Europe, that Screwdriver and Die Bohze Onkle are European rock bands, that Abu Hamza only got attention for the vile nonsense he was spouting against Jewish people after moving to London, that Mosley's black shirts and various similar organisations make a big deal of all being Europeans* rather than anything else, that Imperial Russia (back when Pogroms were fashionable and there was still a pale of civilisation beyond which the cut weren't allowed) and the French and German cities where all of the Jewish populations were exterminated during the crusades are all in Europe, I'd say that Europe has quite a bit to do with it, myself.
But then, I don't have a bee in my bonnet about people with no foreskin being genetically inferior. Somebody more liberal than myself might see that attitude as a tad antisemitic as well.

*(ie: white)

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 1:50:15 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
The common denominator are not populations that evolved for several generations under non-mutilated penis conditions, for those were all different populations: Egyptians, Hurrites, Hittites, Babylonians, Assyrians, Greeks, Romans, etcetera. The common denominator are those populations that evolved for multiple generations under mutilated penis conditions.

While we're on this, why aren't you aware that the Egyptians, circa the slavery of the Israelis, did practice circumcision? It was a big thing in three or four of the Egyptian dynasties. The Assyrians were into that as well.
Your horse is a butterfly, mate. Sorry.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 1:58:56 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		As long as there are differences there'll be people that can't see past them.

In the future when every human being is named John, when they all are of the same religion, when they all look the same, when they all buy the same items, eat the same food. When this all happens it'll be those damn Vulcans people hate.


_____________________________

Memory Lane...been there done that.

(in reply to Jaybeee)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 2:05:06 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

... it'll be those damn Vulcans people hate.



live long and prosper

(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 2:06:24 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Well, they ar the most sarcastic bastards in the universe, so it's hardly surprising there's people who don't like them...

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 2:07:52 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		Ordinary people abhor evil and ugliness. They do neither abhor nor hate decent people nor beauty.

(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 2:10:21 PM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline 		I think anti-Semitism has persisted because it serves Israel for it to persist.

There is a proviso, though. I am using the modern definition of anti-Semitism where anti-Jewish sentiment and anti-Israelism and anti-Zionism are all bundled together like the three musketeers - 'One for all, and all for one!' Obviously, when one thinks about it, this catch-all definition is ridiculous. But the ADL like it, and so does Israel. If all the critics of Israeli foreign policy are anti-Semites, we can just ignore them...




(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 2:10:45 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Are you sure? Michelle Obama's hardly ill favoured, yet most American "ordinary people"* hate her the way Daleks hate Matt Smith...

*(teabaggers, millionaire Fox pundits, and other such spokespersons for the common man)

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 2:12:52 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

I think anti-Semitism has persisted because it serves Israel for it to persist.

There is a proviso, though. I am using the modern definition of anti-Semitism where anti-Jewish sentiment and anti-Israelism and anti-Zionism are all bundled together like the three musketeers - 'One for all, and all for one!' Obviously, when one thinks about it, this catch-all definition is ridiculous. But the ADL like it, and so does Israel. If all the critics of Israeli foreign policy are anti-Semites, we can just ignore them...





Can you find a citation for the definition of antisemitism including anti zionism and a mad on for Israel? I'd always assumed that one was down to halfwits not having a clue what the terms they were using means, rather than somebody rewriting all of the dictionaries on the quiet.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 2:13:47 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Well, they ar the most sarcastic bastards in the universe, so it's hardly surprising there's people who don't like them...


Nowhere am I so desperately needed as among a shipload of illogical humans.
--Spock in 'I, Mudd'

(Best Quotes)

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 2:16:57 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Ordinary people abhor evil and ugliness. They do neither abhor nor hate decent people nor beauty.

Equivocally Yepz

_____________________________

Memory Lane...been there done that.

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 2:20:03 PM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline 		http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_antisemitism

Before someone starts on the 'Wikipedia doesn't count as a source' thing, can I just say - I really don't care. There are plenty of links at the bottom of the page if one cares to do a bit of fact-checking.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have per... - 12/5/2010 2:24:40 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		You seem to have missed the "new" in the heading for that wiki page.
Still, you've at least demonstrated that it's purely an incorrect usage, rather than anything you can find in the OED or Chambers. Is that what you were trying to do?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Do you think Anti-Semitism has a reason to have persisted for so long? Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094