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RE: Mentor and Protector - 4/29/2006 1:18:01 PM   
CERCKL


Posts: 1039
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I do have to disagree. As a single submissive, I don't always like to attend events or parties alone...so often times I ask a friend to go along with me. I don't view them as my protector though because I believe that each of us has a responsibility to keep ourselves "protected".



Not into scene...but interested, I have a local sub who has offered to 'hostess' me...protector?  laughing not quite, more like a tour guide <g>

C

_____________________________

AND I AM TOO AN ASSHOLE, I HAVE REFERENCES!!!

"Please, please, please believe me, I really am an asshole. All that Enlightenment and Higher Learning shit was all a ruse."

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Mentor and Protector - 4/29/2006 1:56:50 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I believe a mentor does not want to lead someone else down the leather lifestyle path, but rather guide that person to the ability to make informed choices regarding their unique situation.  Mentors don't dictate to another adult what they should or should not do.  They offer education so that adults can learn how to make choices that will bring about the potential to maximize the fun factor and help guide someone new to discover tools to help them minimize risks they don't wish to take. What mentors sometimes forget is their students are already adults; fully formed humans who have their own ideas about what BDSM is and should be to them.  It's not the mentors job to dissuade them from pursuing their own lifestyle choices.  Mentors simply expose the truths of BDSM and should trust that their advice will be listened to but realize it's not always heeded.  We need to make our own mistakes sometimes so that we can learn from them. A good mentor is willing to sacrifice their personal time to an individual who desires to increase their own knowledge base but may not have the resources to do so.  They're willing to listen to the fears, hopes and dreams of their students.  They will offer sound advice based on life experience and personal BDSM knowledge. Mentors do not force their ideals, fantasies or fetishes on a newbie but are willing to be open and honest and perhaps most importantly nonjudgmental in their views on BDSM.  Mentors keep the welfare and safety of their students in mind but do not sacrifice their own integrity to do so.  Celeste 

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to CERCKL)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Mentor and Protector - 4/29/2006 2:35:21 PM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

Mentors are a lot like censors.  The only ones you'd really want to have the job need to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into it.  Those who scramble for the position are usually the last people in the world you'd want.



John, I have to disagree with you at least from my personal experiance.  Someone came along early on when I first stumbled onto CM who after forming a friendship of sorts ~offered~ himself as a Mentor.  He already had 2 girls and wasnt looking to add to his chain yet the bond we formed was vaulable, to this day he's still here for me.  Possibly I was one of the lucky ones... But my point was simply that nothing is written in stone.............
Q

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The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Mentor and Protector - 4/29/2006 3:40:16 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Based only on personal experience, There are a couple of folke hwew who asked if i would consider mentoring them. They gave their reasons who they wanted a mentor and why they chose me.. We had already established good communications so my responce was simp[le.. Yes I would mentor but let me do it as a friend rather than a formal situation... As a friend they can use my shoulder if needs be and discuss what needs to be discussed... hell there are times I run a few things I am looking at posting in reply to things past people with more experience in specifics any way..... 

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Mentor and Protector - 4/29/2006 3:52:26 PM   
Kedikat


Posts: 680
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		A lot of great posts. I am always suspicious of Mentors and such. I recommend visiting a variety of chat rooms, informational websites. Mentor yourself well. Then use the information you have gleaned to be your own protector. Be sure to expose yourself to a wide variety of opinions and information. Combine what you read/hear in the Kink/BDSM realm with legitimate medical and mental health sources. Ask questions, be quietly skeptical of the answers. Ask a variety of people.
Don't get discouraged. Don't believe all the " Rules ". You have to make up a lot of your own rules, to suit yourself.


(in reply to LadiesBladewing)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Mentor and Protector - 4/29/2006 4:13:02 PM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kedikat

A lot of great posts. I am always suspicious of Mentors and such. clipped



I have to wonder about all of the posts I see showing suspicion or outright dismissal of mentors and mentorship. Admittedly, my perspective may be skewed by my own experiences, but I've had the pleasure of mentorship in multiple areas of life outside of the lifestyle... I've had spiritual mentors, career mentors, mentors who worked with me on both my non-fiction and my fictional writing, mentors who worked with me on learning the right mindset to handle pastoral counseling without getting buried in other people's problems or empathizing myself to death, mentors who helped me with learning good leadership skills, mentors who assisted me in obtaining the "Watcher Mind" that allows me to be a skilled negotiator and Justiciar for our Abbey.... the only place that I've seen mentors maligned is in the BDSM/D-s/M-s lifestyle and I have to wonder why that is. Just about every other field recognizes the benefit of the mentor... and yet, for those in this lifestyle, there is such a burden of mistrust and the appearance that there is nothing that can be taught that can't be picked up on ones' own or pulled out of a book -- assuming that everyone is going to know the right questions to ask, and know a good answer when he or she hears one.

Lady Zephyr

_____________________________


"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to Kedikat)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Mentor and Protector - 4/29/2006 4:21:54 PM   
ImpGrrl


Posts: 575
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabot762

A protector is a good idea if you want/need an escort to attend a club or party.


That's when you go with a friend.

(in reply to Sabot762)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Mentor and Protector - 4/29/2006 4:28:58 PM   
Calandra


Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline 		I rarely agree to be a one-on-one mentor for ANYONE! I may mentor someone briefly on specific subjects, but for the most part, I feel that it's safer and wiser to make any knowledge I feel I have to offer available on public forums. That allows more than one person to receive the knowledge, AND it allows others who are knowledgeable to agree, disagree, or build upon what I've offered. I'll admit, I have days where the words come together perfectly, and days when I can't get something to come out right if my life depended on it.

The only time I mentor someone one on one is if I have been asked to help expand and support a sub's growth by his/her Dominant, or if I am considering someone for my household. I rarely consider new ones for my household anymore, though, two is enough to heep me happy and busy.

Kathryn 

(in reply to cuddleheart50)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Mentor and Protector - 4/29/2006 4:46:18 PM   
Calandra


Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline 		Additionally, I'd say this:

I love the submissive demeanor. I truly enjoy seeing a sub/slave who is centered, calm, soft, quiet, yielding, and obedient. I love watching other subs/slaves (owned or not) and often end up complimenting fellow Dom/mes when their beloveds bring honor to them. I enjoy seeing how some of these treasures handle situations, from positive to negative. I am constantly amazed at the resourcefulness a skilled sub/slave can display to stand firm against pushiness, hateful gossip, physical hardship, etc. etc. etc.

But it is extremely important to remember something. A skilled sub/slave is NOT weak and helpless. A skilled submissive is not unintelligent or dim. A skilled submissive has gained that skill usually by rising to various challenges and being willing to make mistakes and to learn from them. Look at some of the most delicate things around us and you will realize that they are often the strongest. The Eiffel Tower is made of steel. A honeycomb is made of wax, yet can hold hundreds of times it's weight in honey. A spiderweb is made of strong fibers that can withstand extreme pressure and weight. A slender palm tree can withstand hurricane winds that topple mighty oaks.

Don't ever let anyone tell you that you are not submissive simply because you do not act exactly the way they think you should act. Don't ever let anyone intimidate you into thinking that if you stand up for yourself, you aren't submissive. DO remember that HOW you stand up for yourself will be noticed by others and that you have choices.


(in reply to Calandra)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Mentor and Protector - 4/29/2006 5:15:58 PM   
cillydom


Posts: 332
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Establishing friendships with dominants is perfectly all right, it may even give a new submissive a window into the dominant mind. But be wary of giving him any power over you, I have this suspicion that males that mentor online have their own agenda and may not be attuned to the best interests of the submissive. Having him read her email and pass judgement on whom she should and should not speak to may prevent her from actually finding someone. I talk to many submissives online but I do so as equals, I don’t demand any ritualistic behavior and speech.   Submissives looking for a partner should stand on their own feet and make their own decisions. After all the submissive is the one that will have to live with her decisions.


(in reply to cuddleheart50)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Mentor and Protector - 4/29/2006 7:21:27 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		People who slap the badge of "mentor" and "protector" on themselves often just took off the "I am an idiot" badge.

While mentoring is clearly not something invented by the S&M world, its current use (clear enough for you John?) is pretty much the hallmark of people who want to play with you but know you wouldn't consider them as a romantic/sexual partner.

As for protector, why go to an event where they don't make you feel safe?  There isn't a group out there that allows people to directly fuck with newbies.  Yes, you have to make sure nobody talks you into doing something stupid, but you aren't going to be "forced collared" or whatever BS is floating around the chat rooms this week.

Want to learn?  If you read Dossie Easton's two books, The Topping Book plus The Bottoming Book, you will already know more that about half the people in the S&M scene.  Add in Bill Henkin's book Consensual Sadomasochism and you will know more than most people in the scene.  In addition, you will know enough to spot the idiots from the rest.

http://www.daedaluspublishing.com/
http://www.greenerypress.com/

The above are two of the better publishing houses and they have all sorts of wonderful book and none of them require a blow job first!

(in reply to cillydom)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Mentor and Protector - 4/29/2006 7:36:28 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		I'm going to disagree with you there GrappyDom..

When I first became involved with Gor, I have a couple of excelent Gorean mentors who had meny years experience in the lifestyle. Their role were a guides and people I could initially ask questions to and later as friends with whom I could discuss the lifestyle. They are still friends and a vital part of my peer group.. BDSM wise I have an excelent mentor who is also a Pro Domme who I value as a teacher with areas such as shibari, needle play and CBT.. Originally I was mentored in Lodge and have been in other areas such as the SCA when I was a raw rooky....

Like everything else i have seen mentors abuse their position but that will happen in any level od human activity....

As I commented earlier, when two Dominants asked me to mentor them is specific areas I said I'd do it as a friend rather than on a more formal basis... The role of mentor, Teacher, Guide is what I do within the Pagan areas of my life. I mentor a couple of people in Lodge as they work gradually towards adeptship..

Perhaps we just see mentors differently.....

< Message edited by IronBear -- 4/29/2006 7:37:07 PM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Mentor and Protector - 4/29/2006 7:40:45 PM   
Reasonable


Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		I learned from lots of folks over the years-but mostly from doing, Reading will only take you so far.I still help out the occasional Top friend who can benefit from me,but I finally decided that it's simply not appropriate-or practical, for a Dom to mentor a sub.

Too many roads to hell there.

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Mentor and Protector - 4/29/2006 7:43:00 PM   
cuddleheart50


Posts: 9718
Joined: 2/20/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		What would be wrong with someone mentoring as a friend?

_____________________________

Dance like no one is watching,
Sing like no one is listening.
Love like you've never been hurt
and live like it's heaven on Earth.


(in reply to Reasonable)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Mentor and Protector - 4/29/2006 7:44:53 PM   
Reasonable


Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		When they get attached, and want to be more. It's a personal choice,and has nothing to do with anyone else.

(in reply to Reasonable)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Mentor and Protector - 4/29/2006 7:47:09 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		IMHO not a thing provided the rules were set out and the mentor/Friend understood that he or she does not own nor control the sub.. It would work provided the Mentor/Friend was honest and honourable.. Some are many aren't as I see it..... This applies in all aspects of life anyway.... 

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to cuddleheart50)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Mentor and Protector - 4/29/2006 7:49:06 PM   
cuddleheart50


Posts: 9718
Joined: 2/20/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I am very new to the lifestyle( only 2 yrs)...I would like to find someone who could mentor me as a friend.

_____________________________

Dance like no one is watching,
Sing like no one is listening.
Love like you've never been hurt
and live like it's heaven on Earth.


(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Mentor and Protector - 4/29/2006 7:50:05 PM   
Reasonable


Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		IronBear?

It's not just Tops who cross the line into dishonor in this.

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Mentor and Protector - 4/29/2006 7:58:11 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Ironbear,

Where is the disagreement?  I didn't say all had evil intent and you admitted some abused it.

My point wasn't to say learning is bad, nor was it to say book learning (as opposed to reading crap online) is better than learning by doing it in real life.  My point was anyone looking to learn is better off reading those books first and then moving forward regardless of the direction they choose to go.  They are informed to decide which path is better for them, throw themselves in and start doing it or finding someone to hold their hand while they start.

(in reply to cuddleheart50)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Mentor and Protector - 4/29/2006 8:01:52 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Cuddleheart..  I strongly suggest you find someone with your same orientation to be your mentor.. better yet.. join a group of folks who are your orientation and preferably in real time. You can try contacting the local groups in your area to see if any of them have a program of mentoring. Often if they do, they can match you up with a few people to contact for questions and feedback. If you are looking strictly for feedback, the 'ask a submissive' forum is a good place to ask questions as well and there you get a diverse cross section of opinions. You can take those to your r/t mentor and bounce the answers off them as well. Getting a consensus, while it will rarely be 100% as long as three or more humans are involved, you can get some general ideas of how the wind blows in relation to damn near anything. If there are people with whom you feel comfortable or whose advice you'd like to seek, most won't have an issue with you sending them an email on the other side to do a brain pick. They'll let you know if they have no answers, don't want to answer etc. Feel free to ask in the forums if it's ok for you to email someone as they may have preferences set that would prevent your email from getting through.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Reasonable)
Profile   Post #: 40
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