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RE: Bdsm is wrong - 1/10/2011 3:55:09 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: steve2011
The sad thing is for the female 'dominants' is they'll only ever attract weak males.

Are you suggesting that submissive males and male slaves are weak?

(in reply to steve2011)
Profile   Post #: 321
RE: Bdsm is wrong - 1/10/2011 3:58:28 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: steve2011

If BDSM is not a problem for you, then no therapist will force you or even try to make you change, it would be the same with an alcoholic, they can not be helped unless they want to help themselves.


quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: steve2011

I've never been divorced.

People seem very keen to put me down but has anyone ever been brave enough to get help?


Yes actually. I've seen quite a number of therapists over the years and none of them have had any issues with BDSM, the lifestyle or linked it to my depression in any way, shape or form. So please, as you've been asked before, give us your sources for how you know that this is so bad for us?

Also, I would really like an answer about if you have the balls to meet lifestylers face-to-face and discuss how they need help. It's easy to dismiss people's lives on the Internet. It's much harder to do it when you see them as functional people with loving relationships.

So tell me... how many munches have you attended? How many dinners have you had in a kinster's home? How do you actually know the people you are dismissing out of hand?





Duh. I never said they would force me to change if it isn't a problem so your statement is pointless and has nothing to do with what I said. Your comparsion of BDSM to an an alcoholic is just idiotic though.

So what about my questions? When are you going to provide your sources? How about talking to people face-to-face?


< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 1/10/2011 3:59:35 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to steve2011)
Profile   Post #: 322
RE: Bdsm is wrong - 1/10/2011 3:59:12 PM   
steve2011


Posts: 61
Joined: 12/6/2010
Status: offline 		Yes, I suppose I am, in every group of humans there is a leader, we are basically animals but with 2 intelligences instead of one we have a concious as well as a sub concicous mind.

I'd suggest people learn about emotional abuse, it's equally as damaging as physical and sexual abuse but seems to be accepted not just by the bdsm community but by many people, a quick google search will give yuo lots of information, heres one I found.


http://www.onestopfaqs.com/faqs/11690/

I also did a long post which got deleted, not sure why to be honest?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: steve2011
The sad thing is for the female 'dominants' is they'll only ever attract weak males.

Are you suggesting that submissive males and male slaves are weak?



(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 323
RE: Bdsm is wrong - 1/10/2011 4:00:22 PM   
steve2011


Posts: 61
Joined: 12/6/2010
Status: offline 		Why do you find it hard to reply without becoming emotionally abusive?

Also i've not dismissed or attacked anyone, I don't agree with that sort of behaviour.


quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: steve2011

If BDSM is not a problem for you, then no therapist will force you or even try to make you change, it would be the same with an alcoholic, they can not be helped unless they want to help themselves.


quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: steve2011

I've never been divorced.

People seem very keen to put me down but has anyone ever been brave enough to get help?


Yes actually. I've seen quite a number of therapists over the years and none of them have had any issues with BDSM, the lifestyle or linked it to my depression in any way, shape or form. So please, as you've been asked before, give us your sources for how you know that this is so bad for us?

Also, I would really like an answer about if you have the balls to meet lifestylers face-to-face and discuss how they need help. It's easy to dismiss people's lives on the Internet. It's much harder to do it when you see them as functional people with loving relationships.

So tell me... how many munches have you attended? How many dinners have you had in a kinster's home? How do you actually know the people you are dismissing out of hand?





Duh. I never said they would force me to change if it isn't a problem so your statement is pointless and has nothing to do with what I said. Your comparsion of BDSM to an an alcoholic is just idiotic though.

So what about my questions? When are you going to provide your sources? How about talking to people face-to-face?




< Message edited by steve2011 -- 1/10/2011 4:01:09 PM >

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 324
RE: Bdsm is wrong - 1/10/2011 4:01:43 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: steve2011

I'd suggest people learn about emotional abuse, it's equally as damaging as physical and sexual abuse but seems to be accepted not just by the bdsm community but by many people, a quick google search will give yuo lots of information, heres one I found.




I suggest you actually learn anything.

In a discussion such as this, you need to be citing studies and findings as well as making clear and reasoned arguments. You refuse to provide your training, you refuse to answer how you have studied and interacted with kinksters, you refuse to answer anything in a logical manner.

You are, basically, as if Jane Goodall said that gorillas like to play water polo without providing any evidence and never setting foot in the jungle.

All such assertions must be proven with documented research and case studies.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 1/10/2011 4:02:58 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to steve2011)
Profile   Post #: 325
RE: Bdsm is wrong - 1/10/2011 4:02:54 PM   
steve2011


Posts: 61
Joined: 12/6/2010
Status: offline 		Emotions are far more important than logic in therapy. In fact your concious mind is pretty irrelevant.


quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: steve2011

I'd suggest people learn about emotional abuse, it's equally as damaging as physical and sexual abuse but seems to be accepted not just by the bdsm community but by many people, a quick google search will give yuo lots of information, heres one I found.




I suggest you actually learn anything.

In a discussion such as this, you need to citing studies and findings as well as making clear and reasoned arguements. You refuse to provide your training, you refuse to answer how you have studied and interacted with kinksters, you refuse to answer anything in a logical manner.

You are, basically, as if Jane Goodall said that gorillas like to water polo without providing any evidence and never set foot in the jungle.



(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 326
RE: Bdsm is wrong - 1/10/2011 4:04:08 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: steve2011

Emotions are far more important than logic in therapy. In fact your concious mind is pretty irrelevant.



Really? Can you provide any sources for this? What school of psychology do you subscribe to? Freudian? Conditioning? "I'm-always-right-you-don't-need-to-look-at-my-case-studies"?


_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to steve2011)
Profile   Post #: 327
RE: Bdsm is wrong - 1/10/2011 4:05:23 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: steve2011

most will dismiss me or become abusive when I speak up about, on the forum for example, the same why that if I went into a pub at 11am on a tuesday morning and told most people they had a drink problem, they would do the same, but even so I would be right.



Anyway, I wish you luck whatever path you choose.



Actually we're dismissing you because you flat out refuse to answer reasonable questions regarding your training, background, sources and personal experience.

You are far succeeding at abuse though you behave as an abuser because you seek to make us weak and want us to accept whatever you tell us without evidence. You don't know enough about this to be abusive honestly - basically you are trying to be abusive and failing.

BTW - if you ever feel like doing actually research you'll find that the behaviors you are listing (degrading, calling weak, insisting that you are right with no evidence, etc) are classic signs of abuse.

Edited for clarification


< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 1/10/2011 4:08:33 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to steve2011)
Profile   Post #: 328
RE: Bdsm is wrong - 1/10/2011 4:05:55 PM   
Jaybeee


Posts: 532
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: steve2011
The sad thing is for the female 'dominants' is they'll only ever attract weak males.

Are you suggesting that submissive males and male slaves are weak?



I'd agree with Steve that they are, BUT I disagree that Dommes will only ever attract weak males - I myself am very attracted to Dommes, though I will NEVER be subjugated by a woman.

_____________________________

Mastery in motion since 2005

Women of the world, submit!

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 329
RE: Bdsm is wrong - 1/10/2011 4:07:07 PM   
steve2011


Posts: 61
Joined: 12/6/2010
Status: offline 		Off the top of my head here is some information about headmind/concious mind.

Many therpists, not just myself believe the bodymind/unconcious mind to be a lot more important, if we expressed every single emotion there would be no depression/anxiety, but often we are conditioned not to do so.


http://reversethinking.typepad.com/weblog/headmind/

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: steve2011

Emotions are far more important than logic in therapy. In fact your concious mind is pretty irrelevant.



Really? Can you provide any sources for this? What school of psychology do you subscribe to? Freudian? Conditioning? "I'm-always-right-you-don't-need-to-look-at-my-case-studies"?



(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 330
RE: Bdsm is wrong - 1/10/2011 4:07:50 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		The issue with you presenting snippets of research to support your theory and making it true for everyone is that all it shows is you suck at set theory.

Take your example of people at the pub at 11am: surely they must have a drinking problem; any reasonable person could see that right?

Except... what if that person worked the night shift and so the morning isn't the morning and this is their day off?

They get off at 8am -which for us would be 5pm- and all of a sudden 11am is now the equivalent of 8pm for the rest of us... and again it is their day off.

So try as you might, you can not make square pegs fit into round holes no matter how you manipulate them.

You can, of course see what will happen when you hit them with a big enough hammer, but then they won't be square pegs and round holes any more; the data will still not make sense because you will still have the same issue with critical thinking and set theory.

Try going about this the other way: assume that you could possibly be wrong and see where that might lead you.

Now, notice something: I am not saying that there isn't psychological influence for any of us because that would be flawed set theory.
There is certainly a psychological influence on some people who have an interest and/or practice BDSM.
However, that does not correlate with the blanket statement that BDSM is Wrong.
It might correlate to BDSM is not a good choice for some people.
But that is not for you to say.

(You have clearly demonstrated that you neither have the objectivity nor the knowledge to make any informed assessment like that. In addition No one can "diagnose" anyone over a message board. It would be unprofessional to say the least, were you even qualified to do so.)

_____________________________

The original home of the caffeinated psychotic hair pixies.
(as deemed by He who owns me)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3234821/tm.htm

30 fluffy points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

(in reply to steve2011)
Profile   Post #: 331
RE: Bdsm is wrong - 1/10/2011 4:09:30 PM   
BigPatrick2010


Posts: 1
Joined: 7/30/2010
Status: offline 		There are many mysteries in life. Among these is the cause of BDSM feelings in men and women. However as such things go it's not very serious. There is no single coherent theory about BDSM but there are some strong clues.

BDSM seems alarming to the general public but there are almost no casualties. It's certainly safer than skiing. When I became active in BDSM everyone wanted me to read certain books so I would "be safe". When I was a teenager discovering vanilla sex no one gave me a user's manual. My guess is that most BDSMers have fewer sex related problems like disease than do "normal" folk.

I used to work in an insane asylum. I know about crazy people. BDSMers don't fit that description. I don't buy these family dynamics, sexual trauma, or inadequate parenting explanations. Most of these ideas have already been proposed and have subsequently been dismissed for homosexuality. They made little sense then, they make even less now. Freud is dead - in every sense of the word.

Enough foreplay! I'll explain BDSM.

People are primates and primates live in social hierarchies. Every chimp knows who is dominant and who is submissive. In oranutans females are strongly sexually attracted to the large, dominant males. A lot of anthropologists are unhappy with all those damn horney monkeys. Why can't they be nicer?

So in almost every mamalian species the males compete to get access to the females. To the extent that we can judge - the females like it that way. Where is the mystery? Sex and Dominance are united in nature. Why should anyone be surprised when it is also found in human sexuality?

Then there's pain. But again, sex and pain is the rule for many mammals. There are over twenty mammal species who inflict/endure pain during sex. The best example is the common house cat. Male cats have a barbed penis. When it is withdrawn it hurts like hell, but that flash of pain triggers ovulation. No pain, no next generation of cute kittys. Pain and sex are linked in the animal kingdom. Those who would delink them must think that we are not animals.

So the idea that BDSM is wrong is just silly. And ignorant.

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 332
RE: Bdsm is wrong - 1/10/2011 4:11:17 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: steve2011

Off the top of my head here is some information about headmind/concious mind.

Many therpists, not just myself believe the bodymind/unconcious mind to be a lot more important, if we expressed every single emotion there would be no depression/anxiety, but often we are conditioned not to do so.


http://reversethinking.typepad.com/weblog/headmind/

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: steve2011

Emotions are far more important than logic in therapy. In fact your concious mind is pretty irrelevant.



Really? Can you provide any sources for this? What school of psychology do you subscribe to? Freudian? Conditioning? "I'm-always-right-you-don't-need-to-look-at-my-case-studies"?





Off the top of your head?

That's appalling. You are coming on here and telling a group of people that they are weak and like alcoholics but you can't be bothered to have research handy and provide well-written arguments with studies? If you actually cared, you'd put in more effort than that.

You continue to discredit both yourself and what little, if any, credit your position has.


_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to steve2011)
Profile   Post #: 333
RE: Bdsm is wrong - 1/10/2011 4:11:49 PM   
steve2011


Posts: 61
Joined: 12/6/2010
Status: offline 		I'd say your nitpicking there, of course there will be exceptions in the pub scenario, however, i was using that as an example which people would be able to relate to. I used to work in a pub and it would be the same faces each morning. Im confident most did have a drink problem but they we're nice people and meant me no harm so I got on with my job like everyone else would.

Also i'm not trying to diagnose anyone and I wouldn't tell anyone who likes bdsm to get help. I do beleive however, if someone wants help they should go for it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

The issue with you presenting snippets of research to support your theory and making it true for everyone is that all it shows is you suck at set theory.

Take your example of people at the pub at 11am: surely they must have a drinking problem; any reasonable person could see that right?

Except... what if that person worked the night shift and so the morning isn't the morning and this is their day off?

They get off at 8am -which for us would be 5pm- and all of a sudden 11am is now the equivalent of 8pm for the rest of us... and again it is their day off.

So try as you might, you can not make square pegs fit into round holes no matter how you manipulate them.

You can, of course see what will happen when you hit them with a big enough hammer, but then they won't be square pegs and round holes any more; the data will still not make sense because you will still have the same issue with critical thinking and set theory.

Try going about this the other way: assume that you could possibly be wrong and see where that might lead you.

Now, notice something: I am not saying that there isn't psychological influence for any of us because that would be flawed set theory.
There is certainly a psychological influence on some people who have an interest and/or practice BDSM.
However, that does not correlate with the blanket statement that BDSM is Wrong.
It might correlate to BDSM is not a good choice for some people.
But that is not for you to say.

(You have clearly demonstrated that you neither have the objectivity nor the knowledge to make any informed assessment like that. In addition No one can "diagnose" anyone over a message board. It would be unprofessional to say the least, were you even qualified to do so.)


(in reply to angelikaJ)
Profile   Post #: 334
RE: Bdsm is wrong - 1/10/2011 4:13:11 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: steve2011


Also i'm not trying to diagnose anyone and I wouldn't tell anyone who likes bdsm to get help. I do beleive however, if someone wants help they should go for it.




Bullshit. You told us that we all need help several times.

BTW - are you ever going to answer the questions about your experience and real life interactions with kinksters?


_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to steve2011)
Profile   Post #: 335
RE: Bdsm is wrong - 1/10/2011 4:14:31 PM   
steve2011


Posts: 61
Joined: 12/6/2010
Status: offline 		I find that quite rude, you asked me a question, i gave you the answer, then you jump then my throat when I give it to you, would you behave that way in real life? at home? at work?

I expected an angry respone, just as in the pub scenario, if i'd told them they had a problem, i'm sure i'd have been thrown out of the pub head first, yet i'm sure at least one of them will get help at some point in their life, when that decisions made, peoples perspective change.
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: steve2011

Off the top of my head here is some information about headmind/concious mind.

Many therpists, not just myself believe the bodymind/unconcious mind to be a lot more important, if we expressed every single emotion there would be no depression/anxiety, but often we are conditioned not to do so.


http://reversethinking.typepad.com/weblog/headmind/

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: steve2011

Emotions are far more important than logic in therapy. In fact your concious mind is pretty irrelevant.



Really? Can you provide any sources for this? What school of psychology do you subscribe to? Freudian? Conditioning? "I'm-always-right-you-don't-need-to-look-at-my-case-studies"?





Off the top of your head?

That's appalling. You are coming on here and telling a group of people that they are weak and like alcoholics but you can't be bothered to have research handy and provide well-written arguments with studies? If you actually cared, you'd put in more effort than that.

You continue to discredit both yourself and what little, if any, credit your position has.



(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 336
RE: Bdsm is wrong - 1/10/2011 4:16:21 PM   
steve2011


Posts: 61
Joined: 12/6/2010
Status: offline 		Sorry, but I don't wish to meet kinsters in real life.

Like i've said many times, i've nothing against any of you, but I do stand by what I said, not sure how else I can help to be honest with you.
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: steve2011


Also i'm not trying to diagnose anyone and I wouldn't tell anyone who likes bdsm to get help. I do beleive however, if someone wants help they should go for it.




Bullshit. You told us that we all need help several times.

BTW - are you ever going to answer the questions about your experience and real life interactions with kinksters?



(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 337
RE: Bdsm is wrong - 1/10/2011 4:24:47 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: steve2011

I find that quite rude, you asked me a question, i gave you the answer, then you jump then my throat when I give it to you, would you behave that way in real life? at home? at work?

I expected an angry respone, just as in the pub scenario, if i'd told them they had a problem, i'm sure i'd have been thrown out of the pub head first, yet i'm sure at least one of them will get help at some point in their life, when that decisions made, peoples perspective change.



To someone calling me and my friends weak, telling us that we need treatment while refusing to provide any evidence, answer questions about their background and tell us their actual experience with the people like us?

Yes, of course I would. You need to look at how you are behaving and talking to us. You need to look the questions you are - at this point - simply refusing to acknowledge over and over and over again.

Rudeness begets rudeness. You dare to come and tell us that we are weak, that we need help, that we are wrong, that we have been abused and don't know it and yet you can not be bothered to have research handy, to answer our questions about your background and you find being questioned rude?

You truly are an abusive personality. You treat those who question you as though they are the ones who are being unreasonable when you are ignoring - very obviously - entirely reasonable questions.


_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to steve2011)
Profile   Post #: 338
RE: Bdsm is wrong - 1/10/2011 4:26:11 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: steve2011

Sorry, but I don't wish to meet kinsters in real life.

Like i've said many times, i've nothing against any of you, but I do stand by what I said, not sure how else I can help to be honest with you.


LOL - Finally!

So congrats, you have the same credibility as "Well, I've never met a black/Muslim/Jew but I know all about them".

ROTFLMAO


_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to steve2011)
Profile   Post #: 339
RE: Bdsm is wrong - 1/10/2011 4:27:17 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: steve2011
Yes, I suppose I am, in every group of humans there is a leader
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Are you suggesting that submissive males and male slaves are weak?


What has that got to do with submissive males and male slaves being or not being strong?

Ever heard about the concept of a 'weak leader'?

By the way, you ought to learn how to edit out the non-relevant parts of the posts that you quote.

(in reply to steve2011)
Profile   Post #: 340
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