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The Decline and Fall of the American Empire - 12/7/2010 2:14:04 PM   
hertz


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This article is kinda fun. I like the fact that I'll be around to see it happen (if it happens).

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/12/06-1

Basic plot: The US is doomed. I won't try to summarise the article - and obviously, it is just an article which makes some predictions based on stuff that may not happen anyway, but still - what if it were true?

quote:

Alfred W. McCoy is professor of history at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.  A TomDispatch regular, he is the author, most recently, of Policing America’s Empire: The United States, the Philippines, and the Rise of the Surveillance State (2009). He is also the convener of the “Empires in Transition” project, a global working group of 140 historians from universities on four continents. The results of their first meetings at Madison, Sydney, and Manila were published as Colonial Crucible: Empire in the Making of the Modern American State and the findings from their latest conference will appear next year as “Endless Empire: Europe’s Eclipse, America’s Ascent, and the Decline of U.S. Global Power.”



< Message edited by hertz -- 12/7/2010 2:15:36 PM >
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RE: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire - 12/7/2010 2:54:13 PM   
pahunkboy


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What about Fort Knox?



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RE: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire - 12/7/2010 4:16:21 PM   
Termyn8or


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My predictions have been made. A bit gloomy but those who caused the decline will at least suffer some. Even if they find a way to print enough money, even without totally destroying it's value, there will be less out there to buy. Prices will inflate while income deflates. Much of our luxury will be gone, and quite soon. In fact alot of it already is.

However taking a lesson from Germany in the 1930s all is not lost, at least in the empirical () sense. A President could be elected who is such a war monger that he makes the Bush family look like a bunch of pussycats. America for the Americans, take what we want. That process is already underway, but I think it will become more blatant in the future. You don't need a trade surplus and a robust economy to finance war, at least as a rule. Public perception is the key. My Father quipped that we will become a nation made up of soldiers and lawyers. No real production.

That's even a worse problem than that faced in pre WW2 Germany. They still had the means to manufacture, ours gets sold off to the highest bidder. Even 20 years ago we had already lost the means to maintain some of our older war machines. Melted it down, literally.

Of course it's not that bad. Hell we could melt down 138 pennies and get two bucks for the copper. That would've actually happened a few years ago but the copper in pennies is on the way out, much like the silver in other coins of the realm.

True wealth is not measured in dollars, and that axiom works both ways. Enjoy and keep what you have, because we don't make it here. That means most of our luxuries have their price vulnerable to currency exchange rates.

The return to self sufficiency will be forced. It would go alot easier if we would plan for it, and recreate those resources - the true measure of weath - like we did before. This should be happening right now, but shortsightedness seems to prevail. Indeed the sheeple have been taught to only think of the present. You think our "leaders" are much smarter ? What planet is this ?

Right now the yuan is still pegged to the dollar, I think. That has artificially postponed the inevitable. As in many other things, that makes the inevitable worse in the long run. And it's not just plasma TVs at risk. Try food. Alot of it is imported nowadys. If a loaf of bread is $2, but $2 is only worth fifty cents, simple math tells the new price. If a bag of nuts is $4, now worth about a buck, a calculator does not yield pleasant results.

But for warmongers the price of an army and bullets etc. are of prime importance, not the fact that us peons will need two grand a month to feed a family of three.

An old theory about the disparity of income inducing revolutions indicates that we are about a hundred years behind schedule. (possibly an exagerration). But things have changed. The power of the state is so emormous now that the Peiople cannot effectively do what must be done at this point in history. Where does that leave us ?

Don't eat, you starve. Up north here, don't have heat you freeze. Very few can live the life of a primitive anymore, so now what. Spend money you don't have ? That's been going on for alot longer than most people think. Our collective credit card is just about maxed out.

And the worst part is that people are weak. They will vote for for someone who offers a way out, regardless of the fact that this will entail militarily taking what others have. When we should get busy, build factories, open up those iron and coal mines, rebuild the education system and a few other things, they will look to take. Some won't, but the majority will.

That's my take on the situation. Believe it or not, your call.

T

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RE: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire - 12/7/2010 6:18:29 PM   
AnimusRex


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I guess the tragedy is that a nation founded on opposing empires, became one at all.

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RE: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire - 12/7/2010 6:26:02 PM   
TheHeretic


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We haven't done the conquering empire yet. Start the clock when we turn Mexico into a protectorate, and annex Canada.

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RE: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire - 12/7/2010 6:29:27 PM   
Lucylastic


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Hah you have more chance of becoming the popes third wife
OH CANADA
You cant rule yourselves let alone anyone else
Eited to add, Yes Im well aware I bit the bait..but oh well
I seriously cant think of anything worse.


< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 12/7/2010 6:38:44 PM >


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RE: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire - 12/7/2010 6:40:34 PM   
servantforuse


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I would rather start with Cuba and start with growing the best cigars in the world once again.

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RE: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire - 12/7/2010 6:51:02 PM   
TheHeretic


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You just need to find the silver lining, Lucy. I'll stop flipping you shit when you weigh in heavily on our domestic partisan politics, for example.

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RE: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire - 12/7/2010 7:10:36 PM   
Lucylastic


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The silver lining is that you dont stand a chance of that either...
grins




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RE: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire - 12/7/2010 10:43:02 PM   
Charles6682


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Canada is a nice country.I wouldn't mind living there.America is my home country of course,but Canada is a very close second on my list.Usually Canada is ahead of social issue's before America get it.Usually the Northeastern United State's start's adopting Canadian idea's because Canada is right there.Then,it come's down to Washington D.C. and the federal government get's the idea.The South is alway's the last one's to change.Flordia is an exception,because so many yankee's move down here.I like Flordia,it's a nice state.Except the Panhandle of Flordia,which is the Northwestern tip of the state,is mostly full of redneck's.The Panhandle is basically Southern Alabama.Flordia should just sell the Panhandle area to Alabama.Otherwise,there are some nice area's down here in beauitful Flordia.That remind's me to everyone North of Flordia,how is the weather?!It got cold down here in Flordia today,I had to turn my A/C on low,HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!Don't worry,I will probaly be heading to the beach next week!!!

< Message edited by Charles6682 -- 12/7/2010 10:44:27 PM >


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RE: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire - 12/7/2010 10:46:20 PM   
tazzygirl


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And dealing with hurricanes in a bit.

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RE: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire - 12/7/2010 11:43:18 PM   
tweakabelle


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How's about you guys go out in a blaze of glory and recreate some of the excesses of the Roman Empire?

You know - the decadence, the parties, the orgies and so on. Give a whole new meaning to going out with a bang .....

....and please invite me for the party !!!!

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RE: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire - 12/8/2010 12:04:03 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

How's about you guys go out in a blaze of glory and recreate some of the excesses of the Roman Empire?

You know - the decadence, the parties, the orgies and so on. Give a whole new meaning to going out with a bang .....

....and please invite me for the party !!!!


I guess they are practicing the orgies in Afghanistan first....
http://www.collarchat.com/m_3494032/tm.htm

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RE: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire - 12/8/2010 12:17:08 AM   
Charles6682


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America:Made in China.China is the next major superpower.

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RE: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire - 12/8/2010 12:22:27 AM   
PyrotheClown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

How's about you guys go out in a blaze of glory and recreate some of the excesses of the Roman Empire?

You know - the decadence, the parties, the orgies and so on. Give a whole new meaning to going out with a bang .....

....and please invite me for the party !!!!

considering that most Americans are obese, you might wanna rethink that lol

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RE: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire - 12/8/2010 1:18:02 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

How's about you guys go out in a blaze of glory and recreate some of the excesses of the Roman Empire?

You know - the decadence, the parties, the orgies and so on. Give a whole new meaning to going out with a bang .....

....and please invite me for the party !!!!


I guess they are practicing the orgies in Afghanistan first....
http://www.collarchat.com/m_3494032/tm.htm



OMG! That's awful isn't it? Do you know if there is a reason why the company wasn't shut down the first time around? It wasn't exactly a secret was it? It ought to be front page in the national media, but that seems like a Texan(?) paper. Why is that company still allowed to operate in that environment? If that was an Australian company they would still be covered by Australian law overseas for paedophile behaviour and arrested.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 12/8/2010 1:40:14 AM >


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RE: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire - 12/8/2010 1:24:20 AM   
Fellow


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USA empire has very important different characteristic compared to historical Russian, Ottoman, British, Roman  and so on empires: it does not permanently physically occupy foreign lands (Iraq, Afghanistan being temporary adventures). This characteristic allows USA just to fade away from its current position. USA has been since WW2 economic superpower supported by finance and military. By de-industrialization USA commits economic suicide. I do not see WW3 scenario as the US elites do not feel themselves threatened, they rely on being globalist players. I think  USA will soon decay into Mexico type country with huge percentage of poor population.  This can happen very fast after the dollar collapses (within 5 years). Russia recovered from the collapse because of the natural resource sale profits, USA does not have this luxury.

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RE: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire - 12/8/2010 7:13:28 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

We haven't done the conquering empire yet.


Yes we have. We did it when we swept westward, pushing the natives off their land on to shitty little tracts leaving them little but gambling and ciggarette sales (which, in New York anyway, we are also trying to take away from them) to survive on.

As for the article itself, it has far to many fallacies for me to go over (the biggest being the idea that you can predict technological and social changes more than a few years ahead. Those cheering the decline of the United States do so out of nothing more than good old fashioned human tribalism and bigotry and they fail to realize that we are far more flexable and adaptive than they think. If the United States does go down the cheering won't last long though. Where will they get their money (foriegn "aid")? No, if we go down we take at least half the world (if not the whole world) with us and humanity enters a new Dark Ages (although sometimes I wonder if we ever left the Dark Ages) which will take centuries to overcome. Nothing to do but wait and see.

NOTE: I am all in favor of conquering Canada. Don't get me wrong. Canada is my neighbor and I love them dearly (even if their national inferiority complex can get a little annoying at times) but somebody has to teach them how to spell words like "labor" and "color" correctly and that twenty-two degrees means that it is fuking COLD out!

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RE: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire - 12/8/2010 11:00:43 AM   
Moonhead


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I hate to have to be the one to spring this on you, Marc, but the Canucks do spell "labour" and "colour" correctly. It's your lot who have a problem with that...

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RE: The Decline and Fall of the American Empire - 12/8/2010 11:31:17 AM   
Lucylastic


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He does that just to wind peeps up:)
gawd love im


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