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They're both nuts. - 12/7/2010 3:48:48 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		$700 billion for tax cuts, including for the wealthy, an extension of unemployment benefits, and a one-year 2% reduction in FICA.

All of it unpaid for. But that's the Republican/Obama deal, and both sides are defending it.

Unbelievingfuckable.

That this has no prayer in Congress, from Dems or Pubs, is the only bright side.

Free money. Get it here.

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RE: They're both nuts. - 12/7/2010 5:53:39 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		It sounds like a win win.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: They're both nuts. - 12/7/2010 6:39:07 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		In my opinion Obama is not working for the American people. I think he is working for Wall Street because why else are Ben Bernanke and Tim Gardner working for him.



YouTube - What Else Would $60 Billion Buy?

@elfornse Taxation is the fee of admission for civilization. You don't like, pack up your shit and move out to the woods, you're no longer entitled to have access to thing like roads, schools, hospitals, police and fire services, the electrical grid, water supply and the roughly million other things taxes pay for.

Got that, you whining, snivelling, selfish, right-wing cuntbags? You wanna live like a barbarian, you go right ahead. You wanna live like a civilized human, shut up and pay up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUjl7zR1OKY


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RE: They're both nuts. - 12/7/2010 6:58:28 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
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Status: offline 		I actually believe that when business owners know, as they do now, that tax rates won't be going up, they will start to expand and start hiring once again. This will be good for the country as a whole. Obama did the right thing.

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RE: They're both nuts. - 12/7/2010 7:02:28 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Why would anyone want higher taxes?

Or to be cut off of unemployment given the jobs outlook?

It is a win win.

We could be Ireland - and be going thru Austerity right now.

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RE: They're both nuts. - 12/7/2010 7:38:10 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I actually believe that when business owners know, as they do now, that tax rates won't be going up, they will start to expand and start hiring once again. This will be good for the country as a whole. Obama did the right thing.



Been there, done that, on several occasions already:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2010/09/10/fact-sheet-president-obama-has-signed-eight-small-business-tax-cuts-law-


But even though they still didn't increase hiring much from that, the 2% on payroll deductions is supposed to do the trick now.

But at least we keep the millionaires happy, at great cost to everyone else, and that's all that matters.



"Hey, what are we all doing in this hand basket? Why is it so warm in here?"




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RE: They're both nuts. - 12/7/2010 7:46:11 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Have you seen the latest unemployment figures ? 9.8% last month and climbing. The trillion dollar stimulus apparently isn't working.

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RE: They're both nuts. - 12/7/2010 8:04:08 PM   
Edwynn


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You were saying (it appeared) that this latest venture into deficit ballooning will work where the others fell short because it helps business. I merely pointed out that that very thing has already been done several times before.

All I'm asking is why you think this time will be the charm.









< Message edited by Edwynn -- 12/7/2010 8:19:42 PM >

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RE: They're both nuts. - 12/7/2010 8:08:08 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		When businesses, big or small make money, that is a good thing. Paying less in taxes will help all businesses. A poor person has never hired anyone.

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RE: They're both nuts. - 12/7/2010 8:11:09 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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Status: offline 		Cash is not the problem right now. Businesses are sitting on cash. Banks are sitting on cash.

They just are not lending or hiring. But it's not for lack of cash, and more cash is merely a gamble, at the cost of higher deficits on top of already high debt.

Congressional Democrats and Republicans who oppose this are right to do so. It's not win/win at all. It's cash for votes in 2012.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 12/7/2010 8:16:12 PM >

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RE: They're both nuts. - 12/7/2010 8:20:05 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

When businesses, big or small make money, that is a good thing. Paying less in taxes will help all businesses. A poor person has never hired anyone.



That 2% of FICA is the only part of it that affects businesses. The rest concerns individual taxes, which has no bearing on business decisions. And while on the subject, taxes have virtually no effect on the spending decisions of the wealthy as studies on the matter show. Only for the lower echelon of the upper middle class on down do taxes affect personal consumption, the lower the income level the greater the effect.

The extension of the tax cuts affect individual, not business taxes.






< Message edited by Edwynn -- 12/7/2010 8:21:51 PM >

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RE: They're both nuts. - 12/7/2010 8:20:13 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Business owners are worried about two things right now. Future tax rates and future health care mandates. One of those was addressed this week. We will have to work on the remaining one in January.

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RE: They're both nuts. - 12/7/2010 8:23:52 PM   
Edwynn


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Can you not read? Are you comprehension skills that dull?


This bill concerns individual, not business taxes.




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RE: They're both nuts. - 12/7/2010 8:30:18 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

One of those was addressed this week.


No....Act One of the theatrical production opened this week.

It will be debated, argued, twisted, played up, spun---and has no prayer of getting through Congress.

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RE: They're both nuts. - 12/7/2010 8:41:03 PM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Cash is not the problem right now. Businesses are sitting on cash. Banks are sitting on cash.

They just are not lending or hiring.


Well, gee whiz, I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that with bailouts, they get money whether they lend or not.

Conservatives have been complaining for decades about welfare recipients that lose the incentive to work.  Well, Bush and Obama have extended that concept to corporations.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: They're both nuts. - 12/7/2010 9:04:56 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		" actually believe that when business owners know, as they do now, that tax rates won't be going up, they will start to expand and start hiring once again. This will be good for the country as a whole. Obama did the right thing. "

I do not agree. First, Obama did what he was told. I don't mean there was a gun to his head, but one Man is not omnipotent and therefore has to rely on advice and information from others. Who supplies that information and advice ?

The tax reduction will not have the effect you think. Only profits are taxed mainly. When a company invests heavily, it is all tax deducible, which means they get to not pay taxes on the money they spend to make more money in the future. If you want to do social engineering to corporations, you need heavy incentives to locate here and heavy disincentives to locate elswhere. This is not being done. It may be because of the lack of people lobbying for it.

T

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RE: They're both nuts. - 12/7/2010 9:59:58 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


This bill concerns individual, not business taxes.


While that is true, it is individuals who create and run the small businesses that employ half of all private sector employees.  Some facts to consider:

Small firms:
• Represent 99.7 percent of all employer firms.
• Employ half of all private sector employees.
• Pay 44 percent of total U.S. private payroll.
• Generated 65 percent of net new jobs over the past 17 years.
• Create more than half of the nonfarm private GDP.
• Hire 43 percent of high tech workers (scientists, engineers, computer programmers, and others).
• Are 52 percent home-based and 2 percent franchises.
• Made up 97.5 percent of all identified exporters and produced 31 percent of export value in FY 2008.
• Produce 13 times more patents per employee than large patenting firms.
Small firms accounted for 65 percent (or 9.8 million) of the 15 million net new jobs created between 1993 and 2009.

An estimated 552,600 new employer firms opened for business in 2009, and 660,900 firms closed.

Small businesses rely heavily upon owner investment and bank credit, averaging about $80,000 a year for young firms.

So... if individuals have more cash through lower tax rates, those that wish to are better able to start those new businesses.  Particularly since the banks aren't lending as much these days.

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RE: They're both nuts. - 12/7/2010 10:04:13 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Unbelievingfuckable.


lol... I just caught this. 

But wouldn't that term denote something good... presuming you like to fuck, that is? 

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RE: They're both nuts. - 12/7/2010 10:07:58 PM   
Charles6682


Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline 		Remember how Republican's wanted a way to pay for unemployment about a week ago?Now they don't care because they are whore's for the billionaire's.They got what they wanted with the Bush tax cut's for the ultra rich.They didn't care about the unemployed or the middle class.They would have let the federal government crash to the ground so their billionaire butt buddie's can get a BONUS tax cut.Republcan's once again show where their heart's are at.If the Republican's even have a heart.

< Message edited by Charles6682 -- 12/7/2010 10:09:31 PM >

_____________________________

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RE: They're both nuts. - 12/7/2010 10:33:30 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

This bill concerns individual, not business taxes.




Might that include individuals who own businesses, Edwy?


So, not raising taxes is a tax cut, Muse? Jesus. Has it come to this? If Orwell were alive to see it, he'd die all over again from the coughing fit.

The $700 billion is an imaginary number. A talking point. A better pedigree than the projected cost of Pres. Obama's India trip, certainly, but only because it was pulled from a more highly educated set of asses. What's a double-dip recession going to cost us over the next ten years?

It's a funny thing about paychecks. No matter how much they are, most people's budgets grow into them. Shrink them in these economic times, be it the $50 a week hit I'd have taken, or $500, or $5,000, or $50,000, people are going to spend less money, on less stuff, and gee, those tax revenues really weren't what we expected.



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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