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DADT and Wikileaks - The Connection That Dare Not Speak... - 12/12/2010 10:55:24 AM

TheHeretic

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On another thread, I had mentioned the media reports of the Obama/Clinton press conference changing the President's mention of a "Christmas" party to a "holiday" party. I didn't want to hijack too far there, and that's just one example of a bigger issue, anyway.

When we talk about bias in the media, the conversation seems to hang at the level of Faux News vs. PMSNBC, and how overtly partisan filters alter what makes it out to the consumers of their respective products. What about the other filters though? The filter of adhering to PC editorial guidelines as mentioned, or the first line filter of how the reporter on the ground assumes the world works?

Wikileaks and the DADT policy have both been big topics of discussion in the media recently, yet one flashing neon bridge between the stories is getting left out.
New York Times, August 2010
PFC Bradley Manning isn't just a treasonous punk who betrayed his country and his oath, he is also a gay soldier, serving under the DADT system.

Whether it is a fair talking point or not, is certainly a good sub-topic, but I'm more interested in why the media is so unwilling to connect such obvious dots at all. There are ratings to be had, dammit, and hours of material for the 24/7 talking heads who have to have something to talk about. One notorious conservative pundit has brought it up, but the story seems to have gone right back under the radar again.

Why do you think the media has decided this aspect of the stories is taboo?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

Post #: 1

RE: DADT and Wikileaks - The Connection That Dare Not S... - 12/12/2010 10:56:49 AM

pahunkboy

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As paganly materialistic and commercialized as Christmas has gotten- maybe it is a good thing--- Why insult Christ?

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 2

RE: DADT and Wikileaks - The Connection That Dare Not S... - 12/12/2010 11:27:32 AM

SL4V3M4YB3

Posts: 3506
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Why do you think the media has decided this aspect of the stories is taboo?

When you have evidence of Hilary Clinton asking diplomats to spy on UN it's amusing that they then come out with the nonsense that diplomacy should happen in silence (that is a story). A story about the individual involved and the possible motivations he had are tiny compared to the leaks themselves. Therefore the story of the individual involved has been largely ignored outside of the US.

It's not out of bias but when two things occur people pick the bigger news item, sure they are related but it's irrelevant ultimately. For all the world cares the Chinese could have been training carrier pigeons to obtain this information that found its way into the open. The leaks are a goldmine of information, journalists will be going through it for months looking for tiny details and piecing those details together with actual observed events and public statements made from the referenced timelines.

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Memory Lane...been there done that.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

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RE: DADT and Wikileaks - The Connection That Dare Not S... - 12/12/2010 11:46:31 AM

AnimusRex

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
New York Times, August 2010
PFC Bradley Manning isn't just a treasonous punk who betrayed his country and his oath, he is also a gay soldier, serving under the DADT system.

Whether it is a fair talking point or not, is certainly a good sub-topic, but I'm more interested in why the media is so unwilling to connect such obvious dots at all.

I don't get it- connect what dots?
Between Bradley Manning being gay and....what?

Does this argue for or against DADT?

What is your argument here?

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 4

RE: DADT and Wikileaks - The Connection That Dare Not S... - 12/12/2010 11:56:41 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex
What is your argument here?

I've asked a question here, Animu. Sorry if a subject without clear partisan lines is too much for you to engage on.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to AnimusRex)

Post #: 5

RE: DADT and Wikileaks - The Connection That Dare Not S... - 12/12/2010 12:10:59 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Does this argue for or against DADT?

That depends on how it goes through all those other filters, and then the spin cycle. An argument could be made either way.

Calling it irrelevant seems like a cheap denial. Here we are, discussing whether gays can serve openly in the military at the same time we are dealing with the theft of hundreds of thousands of classified documents stolen and distributed to enemies of the United States by a gay soldier with "issues."

As I said in the OP (which some people obviously didn't read at all), how fair it is to turn Manning into a broad brush is certainly debateable and a good sub-topic, but why the the brush has been left out the conversation is much more interesting.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to AnimusRex)

Post #: 6

RE: DADT and Wikileaks - The Connection That Dare Not S... - 12/12/2010 12:37:46 PM

Aylee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Why do you think the media has decided this aspect of the stories is taboo?

Because there has been this constant refrain from the media (and other places) that DADT is so unfair to gays because these sinned against folks just want to serve their country.

In the case of Manning, he was not feeling happy about himself and so decided to become treasonous.

The media has created this illusion that serving gays are ultra-patriotic and extra-virtuous. Manning shows that they are not. Admitting this means that the media will have to find a new tactic or sound bite.

There are pros and cons to DADT.

However, I think that the desire for DADT to remain in place has less to do with homophobia and more to do with socially and culturally accepted gender behavior.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 7

RE: DADT and Wikileaks - The Connection That Dare Not S... - 12/12/2010 1:08:26 PM

TheHeretic

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Thanks, Aylee. I think part of the problem with the whole DADT discussion is how few people really understand what life in military service is like, and the frequent contradictions between the puritanical rules of the UCMJ, and what goes on in the barracks rooms, or out in NCO housing.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 8

RE: DADT and Wikileaks - The Connection That Dare Not S... - 12/12/2010 2:10:04 PM

DomKen

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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
There are pros and cons to DADT.

There are no pros to maintaining DADT. All there is is hatred and fear of homosexuals.

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 9

RE: DADT and Wikileaks - The Connection That Dare Not S... - 12/12/2010 2:13:30 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
New York Times, August 2010
PFC Bradley Manning isn't just a treasonous punk who betrayed his country and his oath, he is also a gay soldier, serving under the DADT system.

Whether it is a fair talking point or not, is certainly a good sub-topic, but I'm more interested in why the media is so unwilling to connect such obvious dots at all.

I don't get it- connect what dots?
Between Bradley Manning being gay and....what?

Does this argue for or against DADT?

What is your argument here?

Near as I can figure Heretic is suggesting that being gay contributed to Manning deciding to violate his oath. Strangely there have been plenty of soldiers who broke the same oath who were straight. Lt. Calley comes to mind.

(in reply to AnimusRex)

Post #: 10

RE: DADT and Wikileaks - The Connection That Dare Not S... - 12/12/2010 2:15:16 PM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
There are pros and cons to DADT.

There are no pros to maintaining DADT. All there is is hatred and fear of homosexuals.

Spoken like someone who never served in the military.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 11

RE: DADT and Wikileaks - The Connection That Dare Not S... - 12/12/2010 2:20:08 PM

DomKen

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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
There are pros and cons to DADT.

There are no pros to maintaining DADT. All there is is hatred and fear of homosexuals.

Spoken like someone who never served in the military.

6 years in the USN. I saw what it was like before DADT, an 800 number to anonymously turn in people which was nothing but a way to harass unpopular servicepeople. I have close friends who served the full 20 years and they have told me how things only changed cosmetically after DADT was implemented.

Furthermore I know that anyone who volunteers to be between those I love and those who would do them harm is welcome to the duty no matter their gender nor whom they sleep with.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 12

RE: DADT and Wikileaks - The Connection That Dare Not S... - 12/12/2010 2:41:59 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Near as I can figure Heretic is suggesting ...

Ken, you can't puzzle out my position when I post it bold. What I'm suggesting here is that the media really doesn't want to talk about this, and what I'm asking is why people think that might be.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 13

RE: DADT and Wikileaks - The Connection That Dare Not S... - 12/12/2010 2:43:07 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
There are pros and cons to DADT.

There are no pros to maintaining DADT. All there is is hatred and fear of homosexuals.

Spoken like someone who never served in the military.

6 years in the USN.

Spoken like someone who didnt learn a fucking thing in 6 years in the USN.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 14

RE: DADT and Wikileaks - The Connection That Dare Not S... - 12/12/2010 2:44:33 PM

Aylee

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Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
There are pros and cons to DADT.

There are no pros to maintaining DADT. All there is is hatred and fear of homosexuals.

Spoken like someone who never served in the military.

Naw, willbeur, it was spoken like a REMF.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 15

RE: DADT and Wikileaks - The Connection That Dare Not S... - 12/12/2010 2:51:30 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
There are pros and cons to DADT.

There are no pros to maintaining DADT. All there is is hatred and fear of homosexuals.

Spoken like someone who never served in the military.

Naw, willbeur, it was spoken like a REMF.

Quite possibly, but I was stationed stateside and basic and AIT was quite sufficient to understand the challenges of full integration. Yes, 40 years ago, but society hasn't changed that much and I doubt the military has.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 16

RE: DADT and Wikileaks - The Connection That Dare Not S... - 12/12/2010 3:08:26 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
Naw, willbeur, it was spoken like a REMF.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 17

RE: DADT and Wikileaks - The Connection That Dare Not S... - 12/13/2010 11:11:03 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
There are pros and cons to DADT.

There are no pros to maintaining DADT. All there is is hatred and fear of homosexuals.

Spoken like someone who never served in the military.

Naw, willbeur, it was spoken like a REMF.

Quite possibly, but I was stationed stateside and basic and AIT was quite sufficient to understand the challenges of full integration. Yes, 40 years ago, but society hasn't changed that much and I doubt the military has.

So you managed to avoid ever being in harms way and you have the gall to question someone elses service? Why is this not surprising.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 18

RE: DADT and Wikileaks - The Connection That Dare Not S... - 12/13/2010 11:12:10 AM

DomKen

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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Near as I can figure Heretic is suggesting ...

Ken, you can't puzzle out my position when I post it bold. What I'm suggesting here is that the media really doesn't want to talk about this, and what I'm asking is why people think that might be.

The media isn't spending much time on his sexual orientation because it has no bearing on his behavior in this case.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 19

RE: DADT and Wikileaks - The Connection That Dare Not S... - 12/13/2010 8:45:21 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The media isn't spending much time on his sexual orientation because it has no bearing on his behavior in this case.

Being a gay soldier under the DADT rules wasn't an additional stressor on this young man? What exactly are you basing that on, Ken? I hope you washed your hands after digging it out. He had problems, and his sexual orientation wasn't helping one bit.

I don't care if he was a guy who would suck a dick, or not. I want to know how a miserable little puke (may he never see the sky again), who would commit treason for the hell of it, got through the screening for his security clearance, and was able to pull it off.

Now I think we should get rid of DADT, and allow gays to serve openly. I'm not dumb enough to believe it will be a seamless transition, so I give some weight to the idea that our troops are a little busy right now, but it should happen.

Even if we accept your premise, Ken, which won't happen often, how often do things that have no bearing in a case, but are are nicely sensational, get loads of airtime?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 20

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