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The desire to be special or significant - 12/13/2010 10:49:07 AM   
anniezz338


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Hi all. Looking at a passage in The Loving Dominant, this sentence from his Libby keeps jumping out at me.

"So, what is submission to me? To me, submission is a desire to be special or significant. My earliest fantasies, and they were when I was very young, always involved being somehow chosen and desired."

My first thought was that really sounds more human than submissive. Would the need for approval and attention be submissive traits or just a person being needy?

What do you guys think? Just pondering.....


< Message edited by anniezz338 -- 12/13/2010 10:50:28 AM >


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RE: The desire to be special or significant - 12/13/2010 10:53:44 AM   
mbes


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I can see how it would be possible that for many on the s side of the slash, external validation is a motivating factor. Internal validation may predominate on the d side. Perhaps she is linking it to the passive side, by using "chosen", instead of the more active "choosing", rather than the first part about being special? The theory makes sense to me, although I wouldn't think it would be a defining factor either way.
But yes, I agree, seeking to feel special or significant in and of itself seems to me a more human trait than a d/s trait.

< Message edited by mbes -- 12/13/2010 10:55:33 AM >

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RE: The desire to be special or significant - 12/13/2010 11:00:25 AM   
hlen5


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http://psychology.about.com/od/theoriesofpersonality/a/hierarchyneeds.htms

Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs pegs those needs as #4 and #5 out of 5 basic human needs.

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RE: The desire to be special or significant - 12/13/2010 11:07:16 AM   
agirl


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I can't really see anything submissive about the comment at all. I also don't see anything particulary needy about wanting approval or attention.

I truly don't know a single person that doesn't want to feel significant or special or that doesn't want attention and approval in some way.

agirl

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RE: The desire to be special or significant - 12/13/2010 11:09:58 AM   
MaxsGirl


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I think everyone feels some desire to be significant or special, at least to a small degree.  For me, as a slave, that manifests as needing to feel that I've earned my significance.  Knowing that my behavior has brought about Alpha's approval, and that it makes him happy, is immensely fulfilling.

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RE: The desire to be special or significant - 12/13/2010 11:14:29 AM   
LaTigresse


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I don't know a human being that doesn't want to be special to someone, in some way.

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RE: The desire to be special or significant - 12/13/2010 11:29:49 AM   
anniezz338


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Yes with everyone. It's like the sentence isn't complete....I could see the sentence going more "To me, submission is a desire to be special or significant to someone who....." or something like that. But, honestly, if I think on it broadly enough, I can see what she is trying to say.

< Message edited by anniezz338 -- 12/13/2010 11:33:13 AM >


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RE: The desire to be special or significant - 12/13/2010 11:38:12 AM   
LaTigresse


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Perhaps. In that light I would read it as though a submissive is a more needy individual. I know that I've met many that are, but I don't think it defines all people that are submissive.

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RE: The desire to be special or significant - 12/13/2010 2:36:17 PM   
jujubeeMB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl
I can't really see anything submissive about the comment at all. I also don't see anything particulary needy about wanting approval or attention.


I agree with this. Everyone wants and needs approval and attention. Anyone who thinks that's needy behavior is not someone I want to spend time with.

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RE: The desire to be special or significant - 12/13/2010 3:47:06 PM   
littlewonder


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nope, has nothing at all to do with why I submit.

I submit because he's a dominant man who brings out my submission to him. I can submit to someone not into bdsm and be just as happy because it has nothing to do with bdsm but with a connection, a personality, for me.

Now the reason I want to be in a relationship is a whole different matter. I want that because I want to feel special to someone and not just another pretty face to take home and fuck.


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RE: The desire to be special or significant - 12/13/2010 3:56:10 PM   
SyntheticPet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I can't really see anything submissive about the comment at all. I also don't see anything particulary needy about wanting approval or attention.

I truly don't know a single person that doesn't want to feel significant or special or that doesn't want attention and approval in some way.

agirl



I thought level 3 on Maslow's Hierarchy was social acceptance, not 4 or 5.

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RE: The desire to be special or significant - 12/13/2010 4:00:27 PM   
MasterFireMaam


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We certainly want to feel that We are special and significant. Doesn't really have anything to do with submissiveness to Us.

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RE: The desire to be special or significant - 12/13/2010 4:59:25 PM   
DarkSteven


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This bothers me. 

To me, the most desirable submissive wants to please, and that's the driver.

Saying that a sub derives significance only through being "chosen" sounds codependent.


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RE: The desire to be special or significant - 12/13/2010 5:59:35 PM   
Twoshoes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: anniezz338
"So, what is submission to me? To me, submission is a desire to be special or significant. My earliest fantasies, and they were when I was very young, always involved being somehow chosen and desired."

My first thought was that really sounds more human than submissive. Would the need for approval and attention be submissive traits or just a person being needy?

What do you guys think? Just pondering.....


Submissives are people, right? (When they're not being objectified.)

I have yet to meet a person who doesn't want to feel special and appreciated. Or who doesn't have some sort of latent insecurity. Luckily, I genuinely think everyone I know is special and so I have a pretty easy time letting them know why they're awesome.

Ironically, when it comes to women, I have a much harder time being open, because it feels like putting too much of myself on the line. Got to keep them away from my personal things, though, because when I'm really into someone, I end up with little embarrassing pencil scribbles all across, up and down things. Most of them aren't that good, but no one's supposed to ever read them anyway!


Oh, how she smolders in my eyes,

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I sear.

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RE: The desire to be special or significant - 12/13/2010 7:34:10 PM   
smilezz


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I would rather feel valued........but perhaps in the long run of things, that is what significant/special is.

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RE: The desire to be special or significant - 12/13/2010 9:01:28 PM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: anniezz338

"So, what is submission to me? To me, submission is a desire to be special or significant. My earliest fantasies, and they were when I was very young, always involved being somehow chosen and desired."

My first thought was that really sounds more human than submissive. Would the need for approval and attention be submissive traits or just a person being needy?



I'd say that submissives are human and therefore our desires will be as well. Flip this to the other side of the leash - some owners want their property to beg their collar. They want to be the chosen master - the one out of how many men who are looking.

It's not the desire to be unique that is particularly submissive - it's how that person's personality expresses it which makes it submissive, dominant, vanilla, or otherwise.

My .02

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 12/13/2010 9:02:44 PM >


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RE: The desire to be special or significant - 12/14/2010 1:56:44 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SyntheticPet


...I thought level 3 on Maslow's Hierarchy was social acceptance, not 4 or 5.


When I looked at the five categories I read #3 to be accepted as part of the social circle. #4 is where (self) esteem needs come in. You could be right. Anyone with more knowledge than my 20 year old Psych class want to help out?

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RE: The desire to be special or significant - 12/14/2010 2:58:01 AM   
Aileen1968


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Everyone wants to be desired or feel significant and it has nothing to do with being dominant or submissive.
I don't want him to desire me because I serve well or can take a punch.
I want his reasons to desire me to be because I make him laugh and he's in love with me.
Just as I don't desire him because of his ability to dominate. I desire him because of his personality and the man he is.

For a relationship to work, it has to work on levels that don't involve kink. Desires have to be for the person, their personality and not their bdsm ability.

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RE: The desire to be special or significant - 12/14/2010 9:44:10 AM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: anniezz338
My first thought was that really sounds more human than submissive. Would the need for approval and attention be submissive traits or just a person being needy?

I think "submissive" IS human so I don't see much of a conflict. If I squint a bit, that description might fit Carol too. I mean, for her, at least at the surface, it's all about being special for ME. In my mind though any time I try to look at either Carol or myself and come up with "reasons", they always end up sounding like the reasons I like vanilla ice cream rather than chocolate. Sure, I can list a bunch of things, but the real truth is that I just prefer how vanilla tastes. In that same way, we can come up with things we like about being dom and sub, but those things don't are more rationalizations for an existing preference than the other way around.

I personally happen to like the fact that Carol and I need each other. The word "needy" implies a thing gone too far which isn't necessarily implied. Healthy relationships typically have a great deal of mutual interdependency.


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RE: The desire to be special or significant - 12/14/2010 11:04:11 AM   
lovingpet


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I don't know if there is any good way to describe my thoughts on the matter which is why I haven't responded until now, but I guess I will go with a wallpaper analogy.  If I were wallpaper and had thoughts and feelings, I would think that it would be my hope to find a home where I would be considered needed, beautiful, and even make their house a home, special and pleasing.  Now as wallpaper, I would not get those warm fuzzies by every person that walked into my house.  I might go unnoticed by guests, be considered tacky and gaudy, or even please the guests.  Those opinions are transient to me, but if ever my owner didn't notice me anymore and/or I didn't please them, then I would be some very sad wallpaper indeed.  I would also be very afraid that they planned to rip me off the walls and get rid of me. 

Now there is a second part to all this and that's that I am a very...not for everyone...kind of wallpaper.  I stand out.  I don't actually like this.  I like to do my job covering the walls, make my owners happy, and that's about it.  I'm kinda okay with being unnoticed by pretty much everyone and would even prefer it most of the time, but I am designed in such a way that I rarely get that luxury.

To attempt to put this in human terms again, I am not "needy" or in need of the attention of people at large.  Their opinion has come to mean little to nothing to me.  This has been a process.  It has taken me most of my 35 years to finally accept that I can't please all the people all of the time and by trying to do so, I wind up pleasing none.  I have to have priorities and the ability to emotionally endure NOT pleasing someone.  Now it is the people inside  my own "house", my inner circle, that matter and the rest is relegated to simple background noise.  I should have done it long ago.  It brought a lot of peace to my life that wasn't there before.  I have also found it easier to stand up and fight when needed.  I used to be so afraid of how school principals, people at the store, some jerk in a parking lot, doctors, family, and everyone else under the sun would view me if I stood my ground.  That is a thing of the past.  It had a lot to do with self respect...a lack of it.  Now I expect to be treated with respect, not have specific boundaries crossed, and I expect those close to me to be respected as well.  If my little family and my partner are well cared for and I am making a positive difference in their lives, then I don't care about what oppositions I have faced in order to do so.

We are all our own special snowflakes I suppose, but I have a tendency to stand out.  I am actually very shy and, in some ways, a bit anti social, but the harder I try to just fade into the background the more unforgettable I seem to become.  This is frustrating in the utmost and puts me in a very uncomfortable position.  I am pretty private and so when I find every little thing about me up for examination, it really feels like an invasion.  I get wound up and nervous.  I start trying too hard.  Then in the cruelest of irony, I have often wound up making a spectacle of myself when I had only hoped no one would even remember me.  It sucks.  I have to gear myself up (without winding myself up) for any major social contact or meeting someone new.  I have to be of the mind to do it.  If both are in place, I have a great time and make friends.  If I don't, it's a glorious disaster.  I have been introverted and socially awkward all my life.  It's nothing new and something I don't seem to outgrow.  From time to time, I am able to discover one more coping strategy to make things easier and achieve better results.  I am a work in progress in this area, but I am always looking to do better than I did yesterday.

I don't think it's anything less than human to want some kind of approval, appreciation, and special place to fit into the world.  I don't think it is any more pronounced in submissive people than in people in general.  I know it doesn't drive my submission.  My submission is strictly that which one can acquire in response to one's own dominance.  I am a submissive personality, but that is not the same as gaining MY submission.  Like many things, personality traits and preferences don't make anyone more or less human than others.  It just results in diversity.

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