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RE: Condi Rice Schools Katie Couric On Iraq - 12/16/2010 3:56:02 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

From your link:

"One panel after another found that agencies were giving conflicting information to the president," Bradley remarked.

Drumheller admits they were. "And that's the problem. No. There was no one voice in coming out of the intelligence community and that allowed those people to pick and choose those bits of information that fit what they wanted to know."


So, you cherry pick a case that supports your point of view, without considering alternative points of view, because ... ?

Firm



Cherry Pick ? When you only quoted part of the link and highlighted the parts that suited you. Read it all, as a whole and try and understand what Drumheller is saying. And more to the point, think about who he means by "Those people" It isnt rocket science.

< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 12/16/2010 3:58:08 PM >

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RE: Condi Rice Schools Katie Couric On Iraq - 12/16/2010 6:47:27 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Firm. since you are so good at repeating questions, allow Me

If you have a hangnail and some idiot decides to amputate the finger instead of putting on a bit of neosporin, do you blame the hangnail for the fact you have no finger or the dumbass that decided to amputate?

Hypothetical analogy, in which your assumptions are built in.

I'm not particular interested in conceding to all of your points before the argument even begins.

Try being a little more honest and straight forward with me, and you'll likely get a better response.

Firm




Hey Firm. Answer the fuckin question. What are you afraid of?

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RE: Condi Rice Schools Katie Couric On Iraq - 12/16/2010 6:48:42 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		The 2 years after 9-11 could have been our finest hour.

It turned out to be a corporate money grab.

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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Condi Rice Schools Katie Couric On Iraq - 12/16/2010 6:49:46 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Firm. since you are so good at repeating questions, allow Me

If you have a hangnail and some idiot decides to amputate the finger instead of putting on a bit of neosporin, do you blame the hangnail for the fact you have no finger or the dumbass that decided to amputate?

Hypothetical analogy, in which your assumptions are built in.

I'm not particular interested in conceding to all of your points before the argument even begins.

Try being a little more honest and straight forward with me, and you'll likely get a better response.

Firm




Hey Firm. Answer the fuckin question. What are you afraid of?

Just bein honest and straightforward

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RE: Condi Rice Schools Katie Couric On Iraq - 12/16/2010 7:10:19 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

From your link:

"One panel after another found that agencies were giving conflicting information to the president," Bradley remarked.

Drumheller admits they were. "And that's the problem. No. There was no one voice in coming out of the intelligence community and that allowed those people to pick and choose those bits of information that fit what they wanted to know."


So, you cherry pick a case that supports your point of view, without considering alternative points of view, because ... ?


Cherry Pick ? When you only quoted part of the link and highlighted the parts that suited you. Read it all, as a whole and try and understand what Drumheller is saying. And more to the point, think about who he means by "Those people" It isnt rocket science.

Yes, cherry picking.

Cherry picking is the act of pointing at individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position, while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position.
It isn't rocket science.  It's a basic logical fallacy. And you are exercising it.

Firm


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RE: Condi Rice Schools Katie Couric On Iraq - 12/16/2010 7:11:33 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Just bein honest and straightforward

uh, huh.

I'll let you know when I agree.

Firm


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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Condi Rice Schools Katie Couric On Iraq - 12/16/2010 7:12:58 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		Still not gonna answer the hangnail question eh Firm? btw, you asked me to be honest and straightforward. Please point out any falsehood I have made on this thread.

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Condi Rice Schools Katie Couric On Iraq - 12/16/2010 7:17:17 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Still not gonna answer the hangnail question eh Firm? btw, you asked me to be honest and straightforward. Please point out any falsehood I have made on this thread.

I did.  You asked a loaded question.  That is, in context, both dishonest and a lie.

You wish for me to agree with your antecedent propositions before you'll engage in a discussion of your antecedent propositions.

Not gonna play, bud.

Firm


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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Condi Rice Schools Katie Couric On Iraq - 12/16/2010 7:22:59 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		It's called an analogy. You just dont want to play because I will be able to show just how truly full of shit you are.

You started this game of repeating questions till you get an answer.

If you have a hangnail and the doctor amputates the finger instead of treating it with a bit of neosporin. Do you blame the hangnail or the idiot that made the decision to amputate.

It is an analogy (look it up, I'll give you time) to your insistent question of "did 9-11 1. hurt the economy....2. have no effect or 3. help the economy.

No antecedent poropositions there.

Dubya had a chance to be one of the greatest EVER and, despite all odds, he fucked it up because he wanted to avenge DADDY.

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Condi Rice Schools Katie Couric On Iraq - 12/17/2010 1:57:49 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
Yes, cherry picking.


Cherry picking is the act of pointing at individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position, while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position.

It isn't rocket science.  It's a basic logical fallacy. And you are exercising it.

Firm



I would love to see your "significant portion of related cases contradicting my position "  I posted two link from a myriad of links available on the net. I note you didnt try to contradict the one from the official UK inquiry.


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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Condi Rice Schools Katie Couric On Iraq - 12/17/2010 4:59:35 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
Yes, cherry picking.

Cherry picking is the act of pointing at individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position, while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position.

It isn't rocket science.  It's a basic logical fallacy. And you are exercising it.


I would love to see your "significant portion of related cases contradicting my position "  I posted two link from a myriad of links available on the net. I note you didnt try to contradict the one from the official UK inquiry.

Your first link was from "the official UK inquiry"? 

You mean the article from The Mirror?

Where it says ""We did on 10th March get a report that chemical weapons might have remained dismantled... and the suggestion Saddam might lack warheads capable of effective dispersal of agents." [emphasis added].

You mean the one that talks about "might" and "suggestions"?

Look, I don't know what Bush and Blair "knew in their heart", or were convinced of, exactly, and neither do you.  I'm not even convinced that WMD's were the primary "real" reason for the invasion.

However, I do try to read closely, and keep in mind the conflicting and complex reality of the situation, and realize that many people have their own agenda.

You just seem to make your mind up and seek justification for your anger, and beliefs.

Cherry picking, in other words.

Firm

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 12/17/2010 5:00:34 AM >

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RE: Condi Rice Schools Katie Couric On Iraq - 12/17/2010 12:16:11 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Your first link was from "the official UK inquiry"? 

You mean the article from The Mirror?

Where it says ""We did on 10th March get a report that chemical weapons might have remained dismantled... and the suggestion Saddam might lack warheads capable of effective dispersal of agents." [emphasis added].

You mean the one that talks about "might" and "suggestions"?

Look, I don't know what Bush and Blair "knew in their heart", or were convinced of, exactly, and neither do you.  I'm not even convinced that WMD's were the primary "real" reason for the invasion.

However, I do try to read closely, and keep in mind the conflicting and complex reality of the situation, and realize that many people have their own agenda.

You just seem to make your mind up and seek justification for your anger, and beliefs.

Cherry picking, in other words.

Firm


I do have anger for those that cause thousands to die for no real reason. As for your continued accussation of me cherry picking, do a search on the net. There have been many articles in the mainstream media backing up what I and others are saying. Yet despite thast you are very selective in what you have posted from the report ( lets also remember the Mirror is a Labour supporting paper )

quote:

But Sir William Ehrman, former Foreign Office director for defence and intelligence, told the hearing: "We did on 10th March get a report that chemical weapons might have remained dismantled... and the suggestion Saddam might lack warheads capable of effective dispersal of agents."

The inquiry heard that Saddam was not even close to developing WMD with much intelligence "patchy, sporadic" and "simply wrong".

Sir William, now ambassador to China, said: "There were huge gaps in intelligence ... all flagged up to ministers,"


As we can see, all the doubts were flagged up to Blair, who would no doubt have talked about this to Bush. Yet Blair still stated to the nation that the evidence was "Beyond doubt"  Personally I would call that comment, along with the one that Iraq could use WMDs on the Uk within 45 minutes, lies of the greatest magnitude. Both said in order to coerce (SP) the House of Commons to agree to his plans for invasion.

As for the reason for invading Iraq, I have stated many times on here that I think it was over the petrodollar, more so than the actual oil. Americas economy relies heavily on keeping the status quo and not trading oil in any other currency, such as the Euro.


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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Condi Rice Schools Katie Couric On Iraq - 12/17/2010 12:30:54 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		http://www.albionmonitor.com/0307a/copyright/iraquraniumwolfowitz2.html
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1010/Kirk_Bush_official_lied_on_Iraq.html

Just a few of many but there are many involved pushing back.


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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Condi Rice Schools Katie Couric On Iraq - 12/17/2010 1:13:25 PM   
lickenforyou


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quote:

FirmhandKY
Look, I don't know what Bush and Blair "knew in their heart", or were convinced of, exactly, and neither do you.  I'm not even convinced that WMD's were the primary "real" reason for the invasion.


That's good, because WMD's were the excuse and the sales pitch. The plan was to make Iraq a democracy and to give the U.S. a stronger position in the Middle East oil market. That plan was in place before 9/11. 9/11 just presented the perfect opportunity.Well, maybe not perfect, the intelligence had to be fudged a little.


< Message edited by lickenforyou -- 12/17/2010 1:14:47 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Condi Rice Schools Katie Couric On Iraq - 12/17/2010 1:29:03 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Still not gonna answer the hangnail question eh Firm? btw, you asked me to be honest and straightforward. Please point out any falsehood I have made on this thread.

I did.  You asked a loaded question.  That is, in context, both dishonest and a lie.

You wish for me to agree with your antecedent propositions before you'll engage in a discussion of your antecedent propositions.

Not gonna play, bud.

Firm


You're good at asking tough questions. You just dont know what to do when you get an answer you dont like. Likewise, you cant answer tough questions.

Im not lying in any way, shape form or fashion so dont call Me a fuckin liar just because you are afraid of an honest question.

Maybe I should have the shark avatar and you should have the chicken.

You seem to have earned it.

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Condi Rice Schools Katie Couric On Iraq - 12/17/2010 2:08:40 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lickenforyou

[That's good, because WMD's were the excuse and the sales pitch.


They were only one of several reasons.

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Condi Rice Schools Katie Couric On Iraq - 12/17/2010 2:13:47 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

You're good at asking tough questions. You just dont know what to do when you get an answer you dont like. Likewise, you cant answer tough questions.

Im not lying in any way, shape form or fashion so dont call Me a fuckin liar just because you are afraid of an honest question.

Maybe I should have the shark avatar and you should have the chicken.

You seem to have earned it.

Anyone can see how plain your false analogy is logically "fudged" to support your position.

Rant all you want, but you are what you are.

Firm


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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Condi Rice Schools Katie Couric On Iraq - 12/17/2010 2:14:52 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

http://www.albionmonitor.com/0307a/copyright/iraquraniumwolfowitz2.html
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1010/Kirk_Bush_official_lied_on_Iraq.html

Just a few of many but there are many involved pushing back.


Good links, Ron.

Any one who reads them critically can see both sides, not just one.

Firm


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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Condi Rice Schools Katie Couric On Iraq - 12/17/2010 3:30:09 PM   
lickenforyou


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: lickenforyou

[That's good, because WMD's were the excuse and the sales pitch.


They were only one of several reasons.


No, WMDs were one of several sale pitches to the American people. Also part of the sales pitch was a link to Alqueda..


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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Condi Rice Schools Katie Couric On Iraq - 12/17/2010 3:56:32 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

You're good at asking tough questions. You just dont know what to do when you get an answer you dont like. Likewise, you cant answer tough questions.

Im not lying in any way, shape form or fashion so dont call Me a fuckin liar just because you are afraid of an honest question.

Maybe I should have the shark avatar and you should have the chicken.

You seem to have earned it.

Anyone can see how plain your false analogy is logically "fudged" to support your position.

Rant all you want, but you are what you are.

Firm


You're damn right I am what I am.

An independent thinker that doesn't have to parrot the latest trendy talk show host to get a point across.

Like you don't 'fudge' analogies?

Prob is that I saw thru it and answered it in a way that you weren't prepared for and you can't handle it.

You might want to change your avatar to a remora

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Profile   Post #: 100
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