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RE: No Conspiracy: IRS - 12/21/2010 7:32:17 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MeenMrMustard

You're trying to pass the Code off as plain English??? Any credibility you may have had left with casual observers just went down the toilet with that idiotic statement.

The Code is a syntax shell game, intentionally designed to overwhelm, obfuscate, and deceive. You either already know this and are a government shill, or you're an even bigger dupe than I originally thought.

Here's "from whatever source derived" all broken down for you:

http://www.synapticsparks.info/evidence/c02/allinc.html



Well, I suggest you take the author's advice from your article.

Then when Bubba, your 6'8" 300 lb. cellmate, decides you have a "purty" mouth you'll have plenty of time to reflect on who was duped.


Research Tax Protestor Claims

United States Source Income is Not Taxable

The first cousin to the above argument is a variation based upon section 861 of the code. This argument has been in vogue for the past several years and like the others, has led to a great many problems for those victimized by the scam.

Section 861 falls under subchapter N of the tax code, which deals with the income tax liability placed on foreign and non-foreign source income. A simple summary is that the code section explains and defines the income that is and is not subject to United States tax laws. The code section is pointed at foreign corporations with both foreign and US source income.

Certain promoters have somehow gotten it into their heads that section 861 operates to exclude U.S. source wage income from taxation; that income from sources within the United States is taxed only to nonresident aliens and foreign corporations. These promoters claim that if a U.S. citizen earns income from a source within the United States, that income is not subject to taxation. The conclusion is that you have no duty to file a tax return or pay taxes on your U.S. source income.

The Tax Court has rejected this argument since its inception. In one of the first cases to reach the court, Aiello v. Commissioner, T.C. Memo 1995-40 (1995), the Tax Court rejected the argument as "frivolous." Aiello, a craps dealer at a Las Vegas casino, argued that because he was a U.S. citizen with income from a source within the United States, his income was not subject to income tax. The Court stated:

Section 61(a) defines gross income generally as "all income from whatever source derived," including, but not limited to, compensation for services and interest. Sec. 61(a)(1), (4). Section 63 defines and explains the computation of "taxable income." Section 1 imposes an income tax on the taxable income of every individual who is a citizen or resident of the United States. Sec. 1.1-1(a)(1), Income Tax Regs.; see Habersham-Bey v. Commissioner, 78 T.C. 304, 309 (1982).


The Tax Court upheld the IRS’ tax liability determination and imposed penalties for failure to file and failure to pay, stating that Aiello "offered no plausible explanation for his failure to file."



Yeah…Mr. Taxman

Actor and martial arts expert Wesley Snipes finally began serving his three-year prison sentence for tax evasion. Snipes’ problems began when he aligned himself with a group of “folk lawyers”(like jailhouse lawyers, only not in jail) who began in the 1990′s to espouse the view that under section 861 of the Internal Revenue Code, United States citizens were only required to pay taxes on income related to international trade and commerce or income earned off-shore in US possessions, but not on income earned in the United States.

This odd tax dodge has been referred to by leading proponents such as Larken Rose, as the “tax section the IRS hopes you never read” and by others as an “idiot law argument”. Mr. Rose is a self-described anarchist who completed a prison sentence in 2006 after his 861 defence was tossed out of court.

Other 861 followers have advanced companion legal arguments such as the one used by James Molen when he attempted to persuade a Court during his 861 tax trial that if the names of the litigants in a court action were typed in capital letters, the charges were invalid since the upper case letters described a new legal entity and not the defendant. Molen lost both arguments.

Snipes and two others unsuccessfully relied on section 861 to defend against charges including conspiracy to defraud the United States, failing to file tax returns and filing fraudulent tax returns. Snipe’s main argument was that he was scammed by his two co-accused who apparently convinced him their tax theories were legitimate.

His co-accused, an accountant and an anti-tax crusader, were found guilty of conspiracy and fraud and sentenced to ten years and four years . Snipes was acquitted of the most serious conspiracy and fraud charges but found guilty of failing to file an income tax return.


(in reply to MeenMrMustard)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: No Conspiracy: IRS - 12/21/2010 7:52:39 AM   
kinkbound


Posts: 387
Joined: 9/15/2007
Status: offline
Yawn...

We've already established the fact the the government rules with fear and intimidation, by stealing the property of innocent people and incarcerating them. No one is arguing this.

Believe what you want.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: No Conspiracy: IRS - 12/21/2010 8:00:02 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kinkbound

Yawn...

We've already established the fact the the government rules with fear and intimidation, by stealing the property of innocent people and incarcerating them. No one is arguing this.

Believe what you want.


I hope I'm not keeping you up.

Mine is not a belief, yours is.

What I've stated is how courts have interpreted the tax code, not beliefs in what the tax code means.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 12/21/2010 8:09:57 AM >

(in reply to kinkbound)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: No Conspiracy: IRS - 12/21/2010 8:39:13 AM   
kinkbound


Posts: 387
Joined: 9/15/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: kinkbound

Yawn...

We've already established the fact the the government rules with fear and intimidation, by stealing the property of innocent people and incarcerating them. No one is arguing this.

Believe what you want.


I hope I'm not keeping you up.

Mine is not a belief, yours is.

What I've stated is how courts have interpreted the tax code, not the beliefs of some crackpots who read into the law what isn't there to try and convince those who are ignorant of the facts so they can make money money selling books and running seminars.


And some non-taxpayers who have challenged the IRS have been acquitted by the courts.

I'm not going to get into a pissing match with people who refuse to accept anything that suggests non-conformist views. Nor am I going to advocate any particular actions on anyone's part.

I suggest that anyone interested in the topic study my link in post 6, and Mustard's syntax shell game link in post 36, and then decide for themselves what the truth is. The evidence exists, for those willing to take the time to study and accept it. For those not willing; well, that's their choice and ultimate burden.

I learned a long time ago that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it. So I'm not going to beat my head against the wall trying.

Suit yourself, and have a wonderful day.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: No Conspiracy: IRS - 12/21/2010 10:44:48 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kinkbound
And some non-taxpayers who have challenged the IRS have been acquitted by the courts.

What a load of shit.

Some defendants have successfully argued for jury nullification. That is they convinced a jury that although they broke the law they shouldn't be convicted. This is not based on any sound legal basis but on pure emotion. It is also a complete crap shoot.

Take for instance the case of Robert Kahre. He successfully argued jury nullification and got his co defedant employees acquitted. Of course he was not so lucky (the jury hung on several charges against him).

So what happened at the retrial when he had no co defendants who couldn't argue that they had no intent to break the law?
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/aug/14/jury-convicts-business-owner-robert-kahre-tax-frau/

(in reply to kinkbound)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: No Conspiracy: IRS - 12/21/2010 11:16:40 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: kinkbound
And some non-taxpayers who have challenged the IRS have been acquitted by the courts.

What a load of shit.




the "I ARE ASS" tries desperately to prevent these things from going to court.  they lose most of them long before they get to court.

I forget the case but one person kicked irs ass and big ole patriot "a-turn on me" becraft stood up and told the judge yes but my client will pay the tax.

ah huh.....   no kick back in that arrangement.

You only need to go back into the statutes at large, usc and irc starting from the beginning and you can readily see they do not have jurisdiction over most people in America.





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 12/21/2010 11:17:44 AM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: No Conspiracy: IRS - 12/21/2010 7:20:56 PM   
kinkbound


Posts: 387
Joined: 9/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:


What a load of shit.


http://www.save-a-patriot.org/files/view/long.html

http://hiwaay.net/~becraft/LloydLong2.htm

I'm not getting into a pissing match with you either. The evidence speaks for itself, and is there for those who seek it. You believe whatever makes you happy, and have a great evening.

I'm also done with this thread.

< Message edited by kinkbound -- 12/21/2010 7:21:29 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: No Conspiracy: IRS - 12/21/2010 8:26:21 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kinkbound

quote:


What a load of shit.


http://www.save-a-patriot.org/files/view/long.html

http://hiwaay.net/~becraft/LloydLong2.htm

I'm not getting into a pissing match with you either. The evidence speaks for itself, and is there for those who seek it. You believe whatever makes you happy, and have a great evening.

I'm also done with this thread.


Good, because like Banister, youre full of shit.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to kinkbound)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: No Conspiracy: IRS - 12/22/2010 2:50:39 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kinkbound

quote:


What a load of shit.


http://www.save-a-patriot.org/files/view/long.html

http://hiwaay.net/~becraft/LloydLong2.htm

I'm not getting into a pissing match with you either. The evidence speaks for itself, and is there for those who seek it. You believe whatever makes you happy, and have a great evening.

I'm also done with this thread.

Like I said the occasional guy wins a case by arguing jury nullification. Of course many more lose and get to spend a few years in federal prison. See the former poster boy for the anti taxers Kahre (funny how him losing and going to jail on retrial wasn't trumpeted by the anti taxers.

(in reply to kinkbound)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: No Conspiracy: IRS - 12/22/2010 11:00:10 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: kinkbound

quote:


What a load of shit.


http://www.save-a-patriot.org/files/view/long.html

http://hiwaay.net/~becraft/LloydLong2.htm

I'm not getting into a pissing match with you either. The evidence speaks for itself, and is there for those who seek it. You believe whatever makes you happy, and have a great evening.

I'm also done with this thread.

Like I said the occasional guy wins a case by arguing jury nullification. Of course many more lose and get to spend a few years in federal prison. See the former poster boy for the anti taxers Kahre (funny how him losing and going to jail on retrial wasn't trumpeted by the anti taxers.


It's also funny that the charlatans selling the tax protest crap pay their own taxes, including Banister (except for one year he failed to declare $23,000 or so...but filed and paid on the rest of his income.)

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 50
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