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May I ask what begging means or does for you? - 12/23/2010 10:52:23 AM   
MissLily72


Posts: 28
Joined: 12/19/2010
Status: offline 		I am not experienced at begging. Maybe a few times as a child when I wanted something for Christmas, aways to no avail, lol. We were probably considered poor but I just did not realize it. My master likes this very much and I do not know where to begin to learn. I am thinking if I know more about what it does for the Dom it would help me to get my mind set in the right direction. It is important that I develop this skill so I can please my master. Any advice or direction would be appreciated. I am sure it is an art developed between partners but surely there are more like myself that really don't know what it is about or how it is done properly and pleasingly. I do not want to seem a fraud as I am sure my master would not accept that behavior from me.
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RE: May I ask what begging means or does for you? - 12/23/2010 11:05:54 AM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline 		Whenever I beg, I know there's a chance that He will say "No" so there's a possibility of embarrassment/humiliation for me. Sometimes I like a little humiliation.

~sweetsub~

_____________________________

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"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

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RE: May I ask what begging means or does for you? - 12/23/2010 11:26:50 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		The concept is pretty easy. Simply start my saying, "Please" over and over as fast as you can. Add in phrases like, "I want it," and, "I need it." Now, say it all in a convincing way. That'll get you started.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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RE: May I ask what begging means or does for you? - 12/23/2010 11:36:38 AM   
YoungBlondeSlave


Posts: 953
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissLily72

I am not experienced at begging. Maybe a few times as a child when I wanted something for Christmas, aways to no avail, lol. We were probably considered poor but I just did not realize it. My master likes this very much and I do not know where to begin to learn. I am thinking if I know more about what it does for the Dom it would help me to get my mind set in the right direction. It is important that I develop this skill so I can please my master. Any advice or direction would be appreciated. I am sure it is an art developed between partners but surely there are more like myself that really don't know what it is about or how it is done properly and pleasingly. I do not want to seem a fraud as I am sure my master would not accept that behavior from me.


There's a big difference between genuinely not knowing, wanting to learn how to please and being completely full of it.

Ask your Master how he likes it to be done. Ask him to teach you what he prefers.

Since you're brand-new he'll have ample opportunity to teach you things to his specifications...tell him all about the things you want to do to please him, how much you want to learn to please him and i'm sure he will be very appreciative.

And, you seem very genuine. i'm sure you'll do great.

PS i don't know i do it either, i try, he says no then i just scream "Dammit" and sulk.

_____________________________

A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice. Bill Cosby

Intelligence without ambition is a bird without wings. Salvador Dali


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RE: May I ask what begging means or does for you? - 12/23/2010 12:04:56 PM   
MissLily72


Posts: 28
Joined: 12/19/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks so much. I am just reaching the point in my training for this to be useful. We have not had time to discuss it much but I know it will be required and he likes it so I am just trying to prep myself for the idea. Honestly I never asked for much in my life I just went and got it or did it myself. Even today I struggle with the idea of having to ask for help even when I need it. So I need to change my perception on the concept. I am sure he will direct me to his liking. Just trying to decrease some of his load and improve myself. Masterfiremaam I so appreciate your candor and easy to visualize representation. It is the convincing part I fear failing, lol. I want to know why they like it. It is probably as stated here specific for each master. I can see myself screaming damnit and sulking too :) He is very appreciative of my efforts as well as strict, patient and guiding. He leads a busy life so I am hoping to pick up on some ideas to move my progress along. All of this with the notion that I will serve him better of course.

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RE: May I ask what begging means or does for you? - 12/23/2010 12:10:16 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		If you are going to feel safe asking for things, then you have to know you will get it. Otherwise you will continue your pre-existing pattern of shutting down, not asking, doing without until you can do it yourself. He may get off on you going "please, please, great highlord and uberdom, may I cum" to which he answers "No" with an evil laugh but if you know you won't get it, then it won't be sincere. It will be roleplay and if he does say yes, you won't be able to do it.

If he isn't willing to make this safe for you to ask, then he does better not even starting this. Because presumably he wants you to be sincere, and if you're just reciting a line for his benefit, there isn't any sincerity on your part and you will be detached and disinterested. Plus if you are begging, using words, then you won't be in subspace. Being highly verbal and being in that altered state are not things that co-exist.


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Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: May I ask what begging means or does for you? - 12/23/2010 12:22:36 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		For what it's worth, I'm one Dom who doesn't get anything out of having the girl beg. In fact, the whole concept of it sets off warning bells about the potential inadequacies of those who need to be stroked this way - not that I'd state such things publically.... <shrugs>

Of course, begging to cum when I'm messing with her intimate bits is a great listen - I don't mind being "inadequate" then....

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

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RE: May I ask what begging means or does for you? - 12/23/2010 12:27:01 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

If you are going to feel safe asking for things, then you have to know you will get it. Otherwise you will continue your pre-existing pattern of shutting down, not asking, doing without until you can do it yourself. He may get off on you going "please, please, great highlord and uberdom, may I cum" to which he answers "No" with an evil laugh but if you know you won't get it, then it won't be sincere. It will be roleplay and if he does say yes, you won't be able to do it.

If he isn't willing to make this safe for you to ask, then he does better not even starting this. Because presumably he wants you to be sincere, and if you're just reciting a line for his benefit, there isn't any sincerity on your part and you will be detached and disinterested. Plus if you are begging, using words, then you won't be in subspace. Being highly verbal and being in that altered state are not things that co-exist.



Oh yeah; and everything Celeste says.

As usual...!

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

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RE: May I ask what begging means or does for you? - 12/23/2010 12:32:33 PM   
MissLily72


Posts: 28
Joined: 12/19/2010
Status: offline 		Thank you so much Focus.
quote:

Of course, begging to cum when I'm messing with her intimate bits is a great listen - I don't mind being "inadequate" then....
I absolutely fell off my chair! :)

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RE: May I ask what begging means or does for you? - 12/23/2010 2:33:21 PM   
Twoshoes


Posts: 1218
Joined: 7/27/2010
Status: offline 		The point of begging is to build up in your mind the value of what you want (and in his mind the value of what he will give you). It may seem silly, but it works even if you know exactly what is happening, because it uses your brain's tendency to attribute a higher or lower value to things based on how difficult to resolve the relevant cognitive dissonances are.

Kissing example:
-If you never have to beg to kiss him and you can do so freely, there is no real change in how you value a kiss.
-If he makes you beg to kiss him, but lets you do so immediately, your brain will learn that the conflict stemming from not getting what you want can be resolved very easily and would reduce the value of a kiss.
-If he makes you beg to kiss him, and waits an "average" amount, your brain will attribute higher value to this kiss over time.
-If he makes you beg to kiss him and almost never does, your brain will resolve the conflict by devaluing what you want. "Well, I can't really have that. But did I really need it anyway? Well, I suppose not. I can live without that."

So, if you're going to make someone beg, you should ensure they really crave it but not for too long. Orgasm denial seems to use this psychological mechanism as well. Some seek to devalue orgasms completely by never letting their sub come, others will go for the average and eventually make it seem like the most important thing ever. (Mostly a male submissive thing.)

This also explains how simple statements like "good girl" or "good boy" can end up being evaluated internally as the-most-ultimate validation ever if they are only given after a lot of effort.

I've spent way too much time analyzing how we make decisions, begging, coercion and compliance.

< Message edited by Twoshoes -- 12/23/2010 2:45:43 PM >

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RE: May I ask what begging means or does for you? - 12/23/2010 3:06:07 PM   
MissLily72


Posts: 28
Joined: 12/19/2010
Status: offline 		Wow Twoshoes, thank you so very much for your response. It has clarified a lot of things my mind was questioning. It also opened my world view greatly on the subject. I so appreciate the time it took you to compose this message for me. I knew I finished that last year of college for some reason :) I may have just seen the light! Thank you again for your time, energy and effort.

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RE: May I ask what begging means or does for you? - 12/23/2010 3:59:40 PM   
LanceHughes


Posts: 4737
Joined: 2/12/2004
Status: offline 		The following scenario assumes that D-type knows the reaction of s-type VERY well.

(quietly, with gravitas) Count them UP for me.

<swat> One. May I have another, please, Sir?

<pause, then swat> Two. <beat> Oh, Sir!  I love it when you do that to me.  May I please have another, Sir?

<pause, waiting for body language to relax ever so slightly...... then - slightly harder swat> Three.
(jumps a bit....brief pause) May I have another, Sir?

<on it instantly - slightly harder swat> Four.
(brief pause and a panting gasp.) May I have another, Sir?

<on it instantly - harder yet, but not even half of previous scene's hardest> Five.
(pause and a panting gasp.) May I have another, Sir?

<beat, two, three - delivers a good one> Six, Sir.
(twists....pause and a sharp intake of breathe) May I please have another?  <distracted, forgets "Sir">

<fast - equally heavy> Seven, Sir.
(longish pause ... shallow breathing... and then firmly) Sir, may I please have another?

<long pause - and again> Eight, Sir.
(longish pause and just a couple shallow breaths) SIR! May I please have another?

<FAST - heavy - now we're getting somewhere> Nine, SIR!
(gasps)
<touches chest high, whispers "breathe">
(calms breathing - long pause and then focused) SIR! ... May I please.... (shakes in trepidation) have another? <beat> SIR!

<pause, two, three, four..... drags crop... lift it, two, three......whack!>  TEN, SIR!
(gasping)  Please,SIR! Oh, God..... please Sir. (pause, two, three) Another...........I beg you! SIR!

<Instantly - WHACK !!!!>  'leven, sir.....
(can barely speak.)
<strokes s-type, holds in arms> "Good girl/boy.  You did real good.  I'm so proud of you."

===============
Damn!  I missed that "inadequate" stuff. LOL!
===============
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissLily72
<snipped>
Thank you ... for your time, energy and effort.

Works for me.
===============
I think I'm trying to say that begging drives me to higher expressions of my dominance.  I get to control the begging by withholding or granting the stroke.  AS above, it will be deliver when bottom is "ready," BUT I get to decide exactly when, exactly how hard.

It's almost like..... Nope. It IS like playing a musical instrument.
===============
In the "Old Guard" days, we used to talk about "the work."  "I worked him over pretty damn good!"  If something untoward happened, "The work was broken." - almost as if WIITWD was creating a work of art.  Just between and for us, but a work of art nonetheless.
===============
Isn't that a great word? "Untoward" - not "not forward", not just "backward" either. And not static, but just "not going toward.  Maybe "effort made to no effect."
===============
Thanks for a great question!

< Message edited by LanceHughes -- 12/23/2010 4:03:16 PM >

_____________________________

"Train 'em the right way - my way." Lance Hughes
"Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer, but wish we didn't." Erica Jong

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RE: May I ask what begging means or does for you? - 12/23/2010 4:31:26 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

Oh yeah; and everything Celeste says.

As usual...!

Focus.


And as always, what you say too.

Have a good holiday.


_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: May I ask what begging means or does for you? - 12/23/2010 4:43:56 PM   
Twoshoes


Posts: 1218
Joined: 7/27/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissLily72

Wow Twoshoes, thank you so very much for your response. It has clarified a lot of things my mind was questioning. It also opened my world view greatly on the subject. I so appreciate the time it took you to compose this message for me. I knew I finished that last year of college for some reason :) I may have just seen the light!


Hey, you're welcome (especially if it helps you figure out what you're intended to think/feel to get satisfaction out of it).

I'm going to assume you're talking about psychology you've taken in college. Right now, I'm wondering if I should take psychology courses. I can't stop talking to people who know more psychology than me, so I've picked up quite a lot, but for some reason everything gets translated in my mind into yet another way to have power over someone.

Edit: And I actually like writing as much as some people like talking.

< Message edited by Twoshoes -- 12/23/2010 4:46:35 PM >

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RE: May I ask what begging means or does for you? - 12/23/2010 4:46:53 PM   
MissLily72


Posts: 28
Joined: 12/19/2010
Status: offline 		Thank you so much Lance and Celeste. Lance that was a wonderful description and it gave me a great visual sense of the scene. I am sure I will remember it for some time and smile. Everyone has been so forth coming with their thoughts. What a great way this has been for me to fill my cravings to learn more. I am grateful. I hope you all don't get to tired of my newbie questions because I for one have never been afraid to ask for information. Help well that is another issue :) I am thinking of making a practice tape to submit to my master so he can discuss with me what he does and does not like about it.

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RE: May I ask what begging means or does for you? - 12/23/2010 5:48:36 PM   
MissLily72


Posts: 28
Joined: 12/19/2010
Status: offline 		Well twoshoes in my opinion the psychology courses were great and very informative but my internal world views were stimulated and changed greatly when I began taking philosophy classes. Your obviously a quick study and quite intelligent. If you have not taken any you should try one. Don't kick psychology to the curb by any means and if you haven't had any classes then by all means enjoy a few. They are quite informative but philosophy taught me to open my own mind. At least that was my experience. I must admit that I had a magnificent instructor and that probably had an effect on my experience but then that is why they are there. :) I gained more awareness from a couple of those classes than every thing else I studied combined. Oh and your right about the power and control over someone. Seems everything translates that way at some point. Thank you again for the insight.

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RE: May I ask what begging means or does for you? - 12/23/2010 6:11:31 PM   
Zevar


Posts: 801
Status: offline 		Begging implies asking me with genuine emotion for something such as a favor in a heartfelt, humble, or even humiliating way i.e. begging for mercy when I ceaselessly and intensely do whatever it is that gratifies me in one way or another.

I find a steady amount of begging to be none other than exceptionally appealing, when done in a genuine manner. There are no words to adequately describe the depth of experiencing the benefits of the inner instinctive behavioral reaction when begging is a natural unconscious reaction and results in sensual and seductive i.e. sexually enticing pleasuring of myself.

Without a doubt, I am of the thought that begging is erotic when done with a sense of emotion and genuine desire to please me. Even though begging me could ensue unexpected results, which might require relinquishing what it is that restrains one from fully enjoying the erotic pleasures of begging me for whatever it might be.

Take care!

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RE: May I ask what begging means or does for you? - 12/23/2010 6:36:09 PM   
LanceHughes


Posts: 4737
Joined: 2/12/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissLily72
Thank you so much Lance and Celeste. Lance that was a wonderful description and it gave me a great visual sense of the scene. I am sure I will remember it for some time and smile.

Most welcome.
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissLily72
Everyone has been so forth coming with their thoughts. What a great way this has been for me to fill my cravings to learn more. I am grateful. I hope you all don't get to tired of my newbie questions because I for one have never been afraid to ask for information.

I love helping beginners.  As my tag-line says:
 
"Train 'em the right way - my way." Lance Hughes

And do NOT apologize for your newbie status!  Never! Ever!  We ALL started out in the exact same place - ZERO knowledge.

Why I enjoy people like you is easy - you are soaking up the knowledge.  I know it will go on.... sort of my legacy.
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissLily72
<snipped>
I am thinking of making a practice tape to submit to my master so he can discuss with me what he does and does not like about it.

OMG!  What a fabulous idea!  If I got a similar tape from a sub I had "under my hand".... er,.... um,.... excuse me.  I have to go take care of a .... er, personal matter that just came up.

_____________________________

"Train 'em the right way - my way." Lance Hughes
"Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer, but wish we didn't." Erica Jong

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Member: VAA's posse

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RE: May I ask what begging means or does for you? - 12/23/2010 7:59:07 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Master likes me to beg at times but if I was to do it all the time I'm sure he'd find it completely annoying and manipulative so I only do it when I really truly want something so bad that I can't think straight.

Neither of us are really into roleplay or pretending so unless it's something I genuinely want/need, then it's just not worth it to us.

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RE: May I ask what begging means or does for you? - 12/23/2010 8:51:35 PM   
Frenzyandpoise


Posts: 33
Joined: 12/21/2010
Status: offline 		It's a psychological control.

It's a breaking of their pride, and debasing them, stripping them to their core, and knowing what they want and what they need are very different things. If it's done all the time it loses the appeal and borders on to humiliation which others may be in to.

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