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RE: What is a strict master/mistress/dom - 12/25/2010 9:26:55 AM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

But I'm not new, I'm not interested in being a *naughty girl* to get my arse reddened and I'm not looking , nor am I likely to be.

I know this isn't quite what you meant, but this struck a chord with me.

In general (with several very specific exceptions) I don't want to have to be strict. I want my partners to do as I say because they want to please me, not because I'm holding consequences over their heads. And in general (those specific exception excepted ) they do. If I want thing x done and thing x happens, where's the need for strictness?

that fact that you expect thing x done may make you strict to some, but there has to be consequences if x isn't done or it's just a vanilla relationship with a few fantasies thrown in

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)

Post #: 21

RE: What is a strict master/mistress/dom - 12/25/2010 9:33:55 AM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

but there has to be consequences if x isn't done or it's just a vanilla relationship with a few fantasies thrown in

...only if that situation arises. Generally the only reason x isn't done is if there are unforseen circumstances that make it impossible. It's not that I tolerate disobedience, it's that I choose not to have relationships with disobedient people. Can you honestly not see the difference between the two?

_____________________________

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(in reply to osf)

Post #: 22

RE: What is a strict master/mistress/dom - 12/25/2010 9:51:05 AM

Minotauros

Posts: 45
Joined: 11/1/2010
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osf: Before I asked I would have agreed with you. But my opinion changed. It isn't just about the punishment. Even pouting could be a quite hard punishment. It depends on how the sub reacts.

By now I follow the others on "rules and protocols". A strict master could be defined as a "control freak" (CaringandReal your right. I couldn't find a better term either). Of course there is no black and white. Some have more rules some less. The tricky part for me as a beginner is to find out what exactly are many rules. But the amount of rules isn't all of it. There are rules that are harder to follow then others. This is the tricky part. A rule that is hard for one sub might be nothing to the other.

Would you agree if I said a strict master is someone who keeps the sub in a "small mental cage"? Don't give much room to move or for interpretation. Always enforce these rules unless there are good reasons not to do so (e.g. sickness).
This is done by providing a basic set of rules that are "easy" to follow. Add a couple of hard rules. This will keep the sub on its toes. The more rules the smaller the cage.
The rules have to be matched with the particular sub.

Would you also agree if I said the easy rules are the cushions in this cage? Having too much and the sub will get stuck. Having not enough and the sub will get sore.

(in reply to virginmaleslave9)

Post #: 23

RE: What is a strict master/mistress/dom - 12/25/2010 9:59:24 AM

Minotauros

Posts: 45
Joined: 11/1/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
In general (with several very specific exceptions) I don't want to have to be strict. I want my partners to do as I say because they want to please me, not because I'm holding consequences over their heads. And in general (those specific exception excepted ) they do. If I want thing x done and thing x happens, where's the need for strictness?

I agree with you. I don't want to be the bully. But if you expected x and they did y you should correct the sub. This doesn't have to be punishment. Telling the sub what you expected and let him/her repeat might be enough.

EDIT:

Didn't read the following posts before I answered.

The question is why the sub didn't do what was expected. If you ordered your sub to pick you up at a certain time and he/she weren't able because the car broke down then there is now sense in punishing the sub for it. On the other hand if he/she is late because you they forget than he/she should be punished.

< Message edited by Minotauros -- 12/25/2010 10:05:38 AM >

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)

Post #: 24

RE: What is a strict master/mistress/dom - 12/25/2010 10:21:31 AM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Minotauros

But if you expected x and they did y you should correct the sub. This doesn't have to be punishment. Telling the sub what you expected and let him/her repeat might be enough.

Dude, if I expect x and they do y the fault is mine-that means I didn't communicate what I wanted clearly enough. I don't get involved with the sort of people who would 'forget' to pick me up (just like I'm not the sort of person who would 'forget' to pick anyone else up).

Reading your last couple of posts, you're overcomplicating this. Don't have rules for the sake of having rules, because you'll come across as irrational and arbitrary. When you're in a relationship figure out what behaviours are important to you and then make rules about those behaviours. The more things that you find important to you (that your partner doesn't do automatically) the more rules you'll end up having. Just let it happen organically.

_____________________________

Sthetic on FetLife.

(in reply to Minotauros)

Post #: 25

RE: What is a strict master/mistress/dom - 12/25/2010 10:22:07 AM

Buzzzz

Posts: 839
Joined: 11/28/2010
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I come with an "adjustable button".. I tend to adapt to whomever I am with.. Some need lots of structure, some less.. I am gonna try to push a little more and if it doesn't go, I back off a little .. then push some more at a later time, and in a different situation... I believe it is all trial and error, and finding the gray area...

_____________________________

_"Here is something you should never do to anyone.And here is exactly how to do it to someone you care about". Flagg._

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)

Post #: 26

RE: What is a strict master/mistress/dom - 12/25/2010 10:26:12 AM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

Just let it happen organically.

Unfortunately, letting things happen organically has gone the way of those clunky old cell phones; it does not exist anymore.

People want insta-everything.

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)

Post #: 27

RE: What is a strict master/mistress/dom - 12/25/2010 10:31:09 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Minotauros

osf: Before I asked I would have agreed with you. But my opinion changed. It isn't just about the punishment. Even pouting could be a quite hard punishment. It depends on how the sub reacts.

By now I follow the others on "rules and protocols". A strict master could be defined as a "control freak" (CaringandReal your right. I couldn't find a better term either). Of course there is no black and white. Some have more rules some less. The tricky part for me as a beginner is to find out what exactly are many rules. But the amount of rules isn't all of it. There are rules that are harder to follow then others. This is the tricky part. A rule that is hard for one sub might be nothing to the other.

Would you agree if I said a strict master is someone who keeps the sub in a "small mental cage"? Don't give much room to move or for interpretation. Always enforce these rules unless there are good reasons not to do so (e.g. sickness).
This is done by providing a basic set of rules that are "easy" to follow. Add a couple of hard rules. This will keep the sub on its toes. The more rules the smaller the cage.
The rules have to be matched with the particular sub.

Would you also agree if I said the easy rules are the cushions in this cage? Having too much and the sub will get stuck. Having not enough and the sub will get sore.

You've never had a long term M/s dynamic, have you?

Let's try to make this simpler for you.

What is a strict parent? Even better, what is a strict employer? Think about good, but fair employers have been in your life. Did you know what was expected of you? Did you know the rules? Was there a correction policy if you didn't follow what your work entailed?

I've always found that running a dynamic is very much the same as having people who work under you. Some people will mesh with a certain type of boss and others won't.

Of course, a dynamic isn't exactly the same as a work relationship. These are supposed to be people who care about one another over and above duties required. How in the world does someone "forget" to pick someone up at the airport? That's not a punishment situation. That's a "you don't give a fuck about Me in your life" scenario. If they don't give a damn, I'm sorry, but you've already lost the battle.

I'm going to give you the best advice that I can. If you really want to be successful at this stuff, start talking to people who have proven success!

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Minotauros)

Post #: 28

RE: What is a strict master/mistress/dom - 12/25/2010 10:31:37 AM

Minotauros

Posts: 45
Joined: 11/1/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
Dude, if I expect x and they do y the fault is mine-that means I didn't communicate what I wanted clearly enough. I don't get involved with the sort of people who would 'forget' to pick me up (just like I'm not the sort of person who would 'forget' to pick anyone else up).

Okay. That wasn't a good example. Lets say I give a task and they do a different task because they thought I liked that better. This would cross the line and they have to be corrected.

quote:

Reading your last couple of posts, you're overcomplicating this. Don't have rules for the sake of having rules, because you'll come across as irrational and arbitrary. When you're in a relationship figure out what behaviours are important to you and then make rules about those behaviours. The more things that you find important to you (that your partner doesn't do automatically) the more rules you'll end up having. Just let it happen organically.

Your right. I probably overcomplicating. A good advice. Will keep it in mind.

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)

Post #: 29

RE: What is a strict master/mistress/dom - 12/25/2010 10:32:24 AM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

Unfortunately, letting things happen organically has gone the way of those clunky old cell phones; it does not exist anymore.

People want insta-everything.

I think you're being a liiiiiiittle bit unfair, Sexy. It's christmas, don't be cynical (says the jew)

_____________________________

Sthetic on FetLife.

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Post #: 30

RE: What is a strict master/mistress/dom - 12/25/2010 10:35:35 AM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Minotauros

Okay. That wasn't a good example. Lets say I give a task and they do a different task because they thought I liked that better. This would cross the line and they have to be corrected.

That's not how people behave. If you say 'go to the store and get me some chocolate icecream' (to use a vanilla example

) then who on earth would get you rum'n'raisin and say 'oh I thought you liked that better even though you specified chocolate'?

If you are specific enough then that doesn't happen. Which is why I said that it's my fault if it *does* happen, because I haven't been specific enough.

_____________________________

Sthetic on FetLife.

(in reply to Minotauros)

Post #: 31

RE: What is a strict master/mistress/dom - 12/25/2010 10:38:30 AM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
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every relationship has consequences to counter certain behaviors , behave bad enough and the other person leaves

it's just in a m/s relationship the behaviors and consequences are more detailed and enforced

punishment as normally understood is just one possibility

and the concepts of correction and punishment don't seem to carry the same meaning for most as they do for me

< Message edited by osf -- 12/25/2010 10:40:21 AM >

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 32

RE: What is a strict master/mistress/dom - 12/25/2010 10:38:57 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Minotauros
Okay. That wasn't a good example. Lets say I give a task and they do a different task because they thought I liked that better. This would cross the line and they have to be corrected.

Why should you correct them? That's your own fuck up for not communicating clear expectations.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Minotauros)

Post #: 33

RE: What is a strict master/mistress/dom - 12/25/2010 10:49:39 AM

Minotauros

Posts: 45
Joined: 11/1/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
You've never had a long term M/s dynamic, have you?

No. Thats why I ask this question.

quote:

What is a strict parent? Even better, what is a strict employer? Think about good, but fair employers have been in your life. Did you know what was expected of you? Did you know the rules? Was there a correction policy if you didn't follow what your work entailed?

Hmm, when it comes employment I would be someone who tops from the bottom. Basically I know what an employer wants. A successful company. So I do think of ways to make it successful. If I was ordered to do something in a different way that I though right I would follow his order because it is his company. Employment doesn't have as much to do with trust as a D/s relationship.

quote:

Of course, a dynamic isn't exactly the same as a work relationship. These are supposed to be people who care about one another over and above duties required. How in the world does someone "forget" to pick someone up at the airport? That's not a punishment situation. That's a "you don't give a fuck about Me in your life" scenario. If they don't give a damn, I'm sorry, but you've already lost the battle.

Your right. The example wasn't a good one.

quote:

I'm going to give you the best advice that I can. If you really want to be successful at this stuff, start talking to people who have proven success!

Thats why I'm here. To talk with people. Of course I can't verify if you everyone here has success. But I can try to filter the bad from the good and learn.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 34

RE: What is a strict master/mistress/dom - 12/25/2010 10:54:22 AM

Minotauros

Posts: 45
Joined: 11/1/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Why should you correct them? That's your own fuck up for not communicating clear expectations.

If I didn't communicate my expectations clear enough it is my fault. If they simply choose to do it in a different way it is their fault.
On the other hand if they thought they can ignore my expectation and do it in a different why there is clearly something wrong in the D/s relationship and a talk would be necessary.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 35

RE: What is a strict master/mistress/dom - 12/25/2010 11:06:00 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

You know, some of the best advice that I ever got when I was new to this was sit down, shut up, and you don't know just yet what you're doing.

Look. Why do you want this thing? Why are you here? What speaks to you?

Finding someone else isn't what this is about.

I know. It's the holidays. You're alone and lonely. Same reason certain names show up during December because they have no one and nothing else.

Do you really want to be a Master on March 3? How about October 16?

Stop guessing about what this or that means. Decide what it means to you and if there is someone out there who happens to think that it means the same thing. That's how it works, Hon.

I'm going to wish you a Merry Christmas and health and happiness for the New Year.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Minotauros)

Post #: 36

RE: What is a strict master/mistress/dom - 12/25/2010 11:28:26 AM

Minotauros

Posts: 45
Joined: 11/1/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
You know, some of the best advice that I ever got when I was new to this was sit down, shut up, and you don't know just yet what you're doing.

I do agree with you. Really. Well not completely with the "shut up". Maybe I am a bit too "loud" because this is quite new and thus quite exciting.

quote:

Look. Why do you want this thing? Why are you here? What speaks to you?

I think I wrote the answers to those questions in my profile. At least I hope I did. Please tell me if I didn't.

quote:

Finding someone else isn't what this is about.

I know. It's the holidays. You're alone and lonely. Same reason certain names show up during December because they have no one and nothing else.

Do you really want to be a Master on March 3? How about October 16?

Certainly this wont happen over night. I think I know what I want. I do not know the way yet. I might rush some things.

quote:

Stop guessing about what this or that means. Decide what it means to you and if there is someone out there who happens to think that it means the same thing. That's how it works, Hon.

I think this is the best answer to my original question. I have a lot to think about.

quote:

I'm going to wish you a Merry Christmas and health and happiness for the New Year.

I also wish you a Merry Christmas and great 2011.

Minotauros

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 37

RE: What is a strict master/mistress/dom - 12/25/2010 11:48:16 AM

Buzzzz

Posts: 839
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline

It is always a work in progress

_____________________________

_"Here is something you should never do to anyone.And here is exactly how to do it to someone you care about". Flagg._

(in reply to Minotauros)

Post #: 38

RE: What is a strict master/mistress/dom - 12/25/2010 12:35:14 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Strict to me in a new sub's profile indicates fantasy porn of being followed around with a whip if you pause for a moment while mopping the floor.

And usually when a dominant boasts about how strict he is, he's really saying that he takes every possible chance to exercise his sadism but blame it on the sub instead of acknowledging that he's a sadist and wants a sub who likes that kind of play.

I'm much happier with someone who is laid back, who doesn't micromanage me.And who talks to me first, instead of after punishment, or not at all.

As others have said, if someone is willfully disobedient, it means they no longer care about you. And by that time, it doesn't matter how much you announce you will punish them, because punishment does not inspire love and respect.

I also think it is notable how many strict doms are still seeking. Because they don't get that being a one-trick-pony, punishment no matter what, isn't going to grow a strong relationship.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to Buzzzz)

Post #: 39

RE: What is a strict master/mistress/dom - 12/25/2010 12:44:57 PM

Aynne88

Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

but there has to be consequences if x isn't done or it's just a vanilla relationship with a few fantasies thrown in

...only if that situation arises. Generally the only reason x isn't done is if there are unforseen circumstances that make it impossible. It's not that I tolerate disobedience, it's that I choose not to have relationships with disobedient people. Can you honestly not see the difference between the two?

This.

. Besides I love the man even if he weren't my dominant, so what kind of a jerk would I be if I didn't do things he wanted done or asked for?

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)

Post #: 40

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