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RE: Does the "Lifestyle" make healing harder? - 12/26/2010 9:31:50 PM   
plushiecat


Posts: 109
Joined: 12/18/2005
Status: offline 		I am very much with Phoenixpower and CalifChick.  So very often I hear that a BDSM relationship is ever so much more better/deeper/more trusting/insert other superlative here.  I find that to be one of the biggest lines of bollocks ever.  A person can be as "transparent" as s/he wishes to be in *any* relationship.  I am quite happily in a vanilla relationship at the moment (we are poly, he knows of my interests, but they aren't his), and I couldn't be more 'transparent' with him.  There is *nothing* I wouldn't trust him with.  D/s isn't any more a "direct route to deeper intimacy" than how vanillas do it.  Like any relationship, it's communication.  I find it rather insulting to my 'vanilla' friends when it's insinuated that their way just isn't as enlightened/as good/once again insert whatever superlative here as BDSM.  Trust is required of any relationship.  Toys and whatnot are not required to hurt someone quite badly.  If trust fails, and someone wishes to hurt another, then you can do so via a bank account, reputation, or more.  No, vanilla and BDSM are not really all that different at the core.  It's just thew way the love is shown that is the main difference.  Hurt from the breakup of either relationship can vary.  One will not heal faster than another.

(in reply to Phoenixpower)
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RE: Does the "Lifestyle" make healing harder? - 12/26/2010 9:34:27 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		To those who somehow feel insulted, keep in the mind, the original OP was questioning if a lifestyle relationship makes healing harder.

Those who have answered in the affirmative are not putting down or insulting any other type of relationship, including vanilla, nor are they mythologizing BDSM relationships.

You all keep forgetting that INDIVIDUALS are sharing their INDIVIDUAL stories, not making sweeping generalizations based on non experience.

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RE: Does the "Lifestyle" make healing harder? - 12/26/2010 9:36:19 PM   
plushiecat


Posts: 109
Joined: 12/18/2005
Status: offline 		And, those of us that disagree are also doing the same.  

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RE: Does the "Lifestyle" make healing harder? - 12/26/2010 9:37:39 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		Well then, it's all good then, isn't it?

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RE: Does the "Lifestyle" make healing harder? - 12/26/2010 9:38:58 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		Perhaps what I am not saying very clearly is that if your (generic "your") vanilla relationships are not as deep, as emotionally transparent, etc., it's because YOU didn't make them so. You weren't true to yourself, didn't give your all, whatever. It's not the nature of the relationship, it's that you weren't true to yourself. No relationship where you are untrue to yourself, or not living an authentic life, is going to be as difficult to get over as one where you are those things.

In the same respect, there are many non-kink or non-BDSM couples who have powerfully intimate, emotionally transparent, forever-intertwined relationships... because they made them so. Kinksters didn't invent emotional transparency by any means.

So, the "lifestyle" doesn't make healing harder... being true to yourself makes healing harder - anyone can get over a relationship where they haven't given their all.

Cali


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RE: Does the "Lifestyle" make healing harder? - 12/26/2010 9:39:24 PM   
plushiecat


Posts: 109
Joined: 12/18/2005
Status: offline 		Yup.  :)  It still will bug me when folks will try to claim one is better than the other tho'.  *shrug*

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RE: Does the "Lifestyle" make healing harder? - 12/26/2010 9:47:49 PM   
Frenzyandpoise


Posts: 33
Joined: 12/21/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: plushiecat

I am very much with Phoenixpower and CalifChick.  So very often I hear that a BDSM relationship is ever so much more better/deeper/more trusting/insert other superlative here.  I find that to be one of the biggest lines of bollocks ever.  A person can be as "transparent" as s/he wishes to be in *any* relationship.  I am quite happily in a vanilla relationship at the moment (we are poly, he knows of my interests, but they aren't his), and I couldn't be more 'transparent' with him.  There is *nothing* I wouldn't trust him with.  D/s isn't any more a "direct route to deeper intimacy" than how vanillas do it.  Like any relationship, it's communication.  I find it rather insulting to my 'vanilla' friends when it's insinuated that their way just isn't as enlightened/as good/once again insert whatever superlative here as BDSM.  Trust is required of any relationship.  Toys and whatnot are not required to hurt someone quite badly.  If trust fails, and someone wishes to hurt another, then you can do so via a bank account, reputation, or more.  No, vanilla and BDSM are not really all that different at the core.  It's just thew way the love is shown that is the main difference.  Hurt from the breakup of either relationship can vary.  One will not heal faster than another.




Why is it insulting?

Read my profile. I'm looking for the vanilla to mix with the kink. As a matter fact, I can't have the kink with out vanilla, you're reading far too much in to my response.

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RE: Does the "Lifestyle" make healing harder? - 12/26/2010 9:47:54 PM   
UniqueRaven


Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

Perhaps what I am not saying very clearly is that if your (generic "your") vanilla relationships are not as deep, as emotionally transparent, etc., it's because YOU didn't make them so. You weren't true to yourself, didn't give your all, whatever. It's not the nature of the relationship, it's that you weren't true to yourself. No relationship where you are untrue to yourself, or not living an authentic life, is going to be as difficult to get over as one where you are those things.

In the same respect, there are many non-kink or non-BDSM couples who have powerfully intimate, emotionally transparent, forever-intertwined relationships... because they made them so. Kinksters didn't invent emotional transparency by any means.

So, the "lifestyle" doesn't make healing harder... being true to yourself makes healing harder - anyone can get over a relationship where they haven't given their all.

Cali



I wouldn't type it so much as "not giving their all" as sometimes people don't have the tools to give it all.

There are many ways to have a powerfully intimate relationship. People achieve it through the church, spirituality, shared activities, hobbies, family, intellectual discourse - many ways - but few achieve it just being themselves. And these are all tools for intimacy - that not everyone has at their disposal, nor knows how to use.

D/s is a tool - it can be a way to enhance intimacy and authenticity, or facilitate it, in a relationship for people who otherwise simply don't know how to be vulnerable to each other. I've seen it happen, many times - people just don't know how to relate to each other. D/s can help bridge that gap sometimes. Many of us here are truly blessed with the abiilty to look both within and without ourselves to connect with someone else - many don't have that ability.

No, D/s isn't inherently more deep, intimate, transparent, anything like that. But can I say that because of the tool of intimacy that's created with D/s they can be deeper, and as a result harder to heal from? Yes, absolutely. Also, as in my case, there can be physical or environmental situations that arise as a result of D/s that might not arise otherwise. Again, not "higher" or "better" - just "different."

< Message edited by UniqueRaven -- 12/26/2010 9:49:16 PM >

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(in reply to CalifChick)
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RE: Does the "Lifestyle" make healing harder? - 12/26/2010 9:58:19 PM   
Frenzyandpoise


Posts: 33
Joined: 12/21/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

Perhaps what I am not saying very clearly is that if your (generic "your") vanilla relationships are not as deep, as emotionally transparent, etc., it's because YOU didn't make them so. You weren't true to yourself, didn't give your all, whatever. It's not the nature of the relationship, it's that you weren't true to yourself. No relationship where you are untrue to yourself, or not living an authentic life, is going to be as difficult to get over as one where you are those things.

In the same respect, there are many non-kink or non-BDSM couples who have powerfully intimate, emotionally transparent, forever-intertwined relationships... because they made them so. Kinksters didn't invent emotional transparency by any means.

So, the "lifestyle" doesn't make healing harder... being true to yourself makes healing harder - anyone can get over a relationship where they haven't given their all.

Cali



Ok, that makes a lot more sense and for me rings completely true.

The strictly vanilla relationships I've had, would hear about how I wanted to tie them in a compromising position and spank them only to freak out, and not have anything to do with that, or me in some instances.

So you're right, I wasn't being true to my self, because I wasn't able to be my self in that relationship. Which is why in my experience, the BDSM relationship has been harder to get over, because I have been able to achieve what I desire. And not have to suppress those dominant and sadistic impulses during sex.

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RE: Does the "Lifestyle" make healing harder? - 12/26/2010 10:06:56 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		I still disagree. I have been 100% myself in EVERY relationship. In fact, when our differences were very apparent, I tried even harder to give it my all.

I do not think that the failure of certain relationships is indicative of people failing to be themselves. Sometimes, you both are absolutely your true selves, but no amount of being authentic will make it work.

Of course, if someone does NOT behave authentically, then of course that relationship is bound to fail, but do not paint everyone with the same brush of failure.

Sometimes it is the combination of the two authentic people that misses the mark, vanilla or BDSM.

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RE: Does the "Lifestyle" make healing harder? - 12/26/2010 10:13:15 PM   
Frenzyandpoise


Posts: 33
Joined: 12/21/2010
Status: offline 		That's another interesting point sexyred1.

Is that in any relationship, sometimes people miss the mark on each other, and emphasize on one or two things like sex and laughter, but they're completely destructive elsewhere.

It's just interesting and does reinforce my opinion, that a D/s relationship can't exist with out a strong vanilla foundation.

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RE: Does the "Lifestyle" make healing harder? - 12/26/2010 10:16:50 PM   
hausboy


Posts: 2360
Joined: 9/5/2010
Status: offline 		When my 14-year relationship ended in divorce it devastated me.  And I've been having a rough time dating--I go on plenty of dates, and many of the women are interested in seeing me again, but I don't have an interest in them--they are just so damn boring!  I can't help it, vanilla girls just bore me to tears!

I depended on my Domme (who was also my wife, my best friend, my confidante, my cheering section etc.) for so much--the hardest part after the divorce was learning to be independent again.  Today, I'm more independent than I've ever been in my entire life--it's a liberating feeling and something I never imagined.  From something painful and awful, something truly good and wonderful has happened.

I can do things for myself that I never imagined--I travel alone, take care of my house, manage all of the finances and decisions--essentially, I am finally able to take care of myself, and don't rely on her to take care of me anymore. As I continue my quest for my match, I don't want to find a woman who wants to take care of me.... and I don't want a woman who expects me to take care of her....I want an equal who can stand on her own, next to me, as I stand on my own, and we share our lives together.

All I can say is, it gets a little better and easier each year.  (thank goodness for a good therapist!)
good luck to you--hang in there
frederich

< Message edited by hausboy -- 12/26/2010 10:18:17 PM >

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RE: Does the "Lifestyle" make healing harder? - 12/27/2010 12:01:53 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		No, I don't believe that a relationship that includes an authority dynamic is harder to heal from.  I don't believe that they are deeper, more meaningful, or 'better' in any such way that makes the grief of losing that relationship more extreme.  I think "harder" has much more to do with what transpires between the two and the quality of the relationship that directly relates to how difficult it is to lose.

As sure as I'm sitting here, I can promise you that the day that My relationship with MP ends, either through divorce or death, will begin the most difficult period of My life.  You can take that to the bank.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Frenzyandpoise
It's just interesting and does reinforce my opinion, that a D/s relationship can't exist with out a strong vanilla foundation.

For you, perhaps.  My dynamic with clip has no vanilla foundation.  (I'm a poly person, if you're curious.)  It's foundation was and continues to be the authority dynamic.

< Message edited by LadyPact -- 12/27/2010 12:03:14 AM >

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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RE: Does the "Lifestyle" make healing harder? - 12/27/2010 12:10:06 AM   
Frenzyandpoise


Posts: 33
Joined: 12/21/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

For you, perhaps.  My dynamic with clip has no vanilla foundation.  (I'm a poly person, if you're curious.)  It's foundation was and continues to be the authority dynamic.


So there's no vanilla context what so ever?

Edit:

And what's your definition of "vanilla"?

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RE: Does the "Lifestyle" make healing harder? - 12/27/2010 1:13:15 AM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline 		No. 

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RE: Does the "Lifestyle" make healing harder? - 12/27/2010 2:03:54 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		~FR~

I'm not reading the other responses because I want to give my response without becoming "neutral" which is what I generally do to be more inclusive of others.

I don't think that it is the D/s connection that is the focus when getting back to a healthy place alone after a relationship ends. I think it is the behavioral habits that cause the difficulties. If you are in the habit of giving up control, you have to learn a new habit. If you are accustomed to asking for something, you have to give up that habit. If you are accustomed to someone else deciding what happens first and then second and so on, then when you have to make your list of things to do, you are missing out on that feedback loop.

In that way, I think it is harder. This is not about deeper emotions but instead about behavioral patterns. And let's face it, changing a behavioral pattern of any sort is difficult - ever try to stop smoking, walk to work, cook instead of take-out, learn to play an instrument? It's no different. It could be that there are MORE behavioral patterns that are being changed - as in what to wear, where to go, what to eat, sexuality, bedtime, television shows, etc. Also, the habit of not making choices, and getting to a learned helplessness type of place can be unlearned; one can re-learn how to make choices. One may also need to relearn their thinking patterns in order to make those choices, to decide what they like. They may need to pay closer attention to themselves. That, too, is a behavioral shift.

So, no, I don't think it makes healing "harder" so much as it means that there may be more than the normal number / quantity of behavioral changes. The quality of those behavioral changes are not any more or less than those of vanilla relationships.

An interesting question.

Best,
sunshine




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RE: Does the "Lifestyle" make healing harder? - 12/27/2010 6:36:34 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		Interesting replies here, and I understand both "sides" of what is being stated here.

I had a vanilla marriage of 20 years to recover from, and an M/s relationship of 4 years to recover from.  Both were extremely difficult, for different reasons.  I gave my all in both, but I was not true to myself in my marriage, because I could not express myself within the relationship as a slave, which is what I needed to be.

I do agree it's the people, not the relationship dynamic, which determines the levels of trust, intimacy, etc.  I can absolutely see some non M/s relationships being harder to recover from than some M/s or D/s relationships.  However, I believe it's the nature of the particular relationship that makes it so.

My marriage was difficult to recover from (and in some ways I am still recovering from it) because it was 20 years in its duration, abusive, and because its failure meant the end of many dreams I had.  The biggest difficulty of that recovery was being baffled that someone could do some of the things he did, to someone he claimed to love.  It was also because of the things within myself that I had to face, and fix.

The ending of my M/s relationship was nearly devastating, because of the conditioning that had occurred within it. I had been been taught and conditioned to make him my center, of all things.  I had no personal foundation, and instead saw him as that.  So when he abruptly ended it, the carpet had been pulled out from under me, and I had to either learn how to create my own center, or crumble.  I knew since my marriage didn't do me in, the ending of this M/s relationship wouldn't, either.  I knew my own strength at that point.

I can't say which is harder.  There is no black and white here.  It depends. I know for myself, I can only freely be myself in the right M/s relationship.  Therefore, I am more honest (with both myself and him) in it, more vulnerable, more revealing, and more susceptible to being hurt.  But anyone can just as easily say this about a non-M/s or non-D/s relationship, depending on the people within the relationship.

In any case, the ending of a relationship is hard.  Period.  And people process those pains differently.  So, no universal black and white answer here, only individual experiences.  And who am I to discount what someone else's experience is?


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RE: Does the "Lifestyle" make healing harder? - 12/27/2010 8:48:49 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Frenzyandpoise
So there's no vanilla context what so ever?

Edit:

And what's your definition of "vanilla"?

Nope.

My rough definition of vanilla is a relationship where no kink activities happen and there is no imbalance of power/control/authority between the parties.

In our case, we didn't start as friends, go on 'dates', or any of those things that would be the foundation of a vanilla relationship.  Lots of kinky folks do this as well.  It just isn't our experience.  Instead, we started as play partners, moved to training/service/consideration, and collaring.

Now, don't confuse this in thinking that we play every minute that we're together or that we don't ever spend time doing things that aren't related to kink.  It's not like we've never watched a movie together or any other things that people do.  However, when we're doing them, the power structure isn't absent.  That was established first and the friendship, affection, and non romantic love grew from those roots.

If no D/s dynamic could exist without a vanilla foundation, you completely skip those who enter such dynamics that are service based.  It's just as possible for someone to want to enter a household because they want to have the structure, rather than a pal.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Does the "Lifestyle" make healing harder? - 12/27/2010 9:32:19 AM   
sblady


Posts: 433
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline 		No, it doesn't. A couple years ago my answer would have been yes; however, I'm suffering from a somewhat bruised heart by a guy who isn't involved in D/s, etc. I realize the difference is I gave my all in this relationship which was obviously a first for me.

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RE: Does the "Lifestyle" make healing harder? - 12/27/2010 10:00:31 AM   
LadyRian


Posts: 486
Joined: 9/5/2010
Status: offline 		My personal opinion is not that a D/s relationship is "better" than a vanilla relationship. But they're different types of relationships. Are we comparing apples to oranges here, or valencia oranges to blood oranges? Both oranges, not exactly the same.

I most certainly gave my "all" in every relationship. Or tried to. When my D/s dynamic was consistently rejected by vanilla partners, how can there be "all" when something so important is missing? To me "all" means everything, and when you can't give your all, because someone else doesn't choose to accept it, good luck with that.
This is why I personally found vanilla relationships to be only partially fulfilling.




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